Upstate Uptick

[CNYsyr]

^ you are right leets.

Urbanized Syracuse is only 400,000, urbanized Buffalo is almost 1 million. Thats a big difference in how locals view where they live. Also, outsiders tend over look places the size of Syracuse, therefore Buffalo gets a lot more attention from the State and nation. In a way Syracuse is worse off than Buffalo due to this. Buffalo could lose another 200,000 people and still be a larger and a more important place than Syracuse. My dream is for the urbanized area of Syracuse grow to at least 700,000 in my lifetime. That would make the Syracuse MSA near 1 million. Then maybe my area will start to get respect and more attention, thereby attracting more people too. The problem is how do we grow 300,000 over the next few decades?

[UTCdude23]

My thought er... hope, is that DestiNY USA would help to accomplish that. As well as attracting more business in the biotech areas as opposed to low-level manufacturing. Energy and government costs are too high in the state to help achieve large-scale growth. In order for a place like Syracuse to grow 300,000 people over the next few decades, I would say that the area needs to consolidate alot of services and possibly merge the city proper with the urbanized area. With consolidated services, many govt. jobs would be cut, but this would reduce costs of business, which would help replace the jobs lost with private, tax-paying ones. That coupled w/ any measurable success w/ DestiNY, would help spur good growth.

Question, if the Syracuse area were to grow that much, would Utica-Rome merge w/ its metro area?

[CNYsyr]

^that's a good question. I guess it would depend on a few factors like

1. which direction the most growth occurs

2. if enough people from Oneida County commute to Onondaga County

3. if Utica sprawls toward Syracuse

Some factors that might prevent a Syracuse Utica metro merger from ever happening.

1. Syracuse and Utica are in different TV, and radio markets

2. The Thruway is a toll highway which may discourage long commutes from Oneida County

3. CNY doesn't sprawl much today and there are many people trying to stop growth in rural Madison County

Here is a urbanized map of NYS

satellite image of CNY

If you look at Rochester's urbanized area, which is about 700,000, you can see that if Syracuse was that size, Syracuse still would reach the Utica area.

I'd have to doubt that Utica would merge with Syracuse if we grew by 300,000. But if Syracuse did merge with Utica, that would mean that Syracuse (metro 1,000,000) and Utica (metro 300,000) would create a metro of about 1,300,000. That's getting into the big league range.

[UTCdude23]

I'd have to doubt that Utica would merge with Syracuse if we grew by 300,000. But if Syracuse did merge with Utica, that would mean that Syracuse (metro 1,000,000) and Utica (metro 300,000) would create a metro of about 1,300,000. That's getting into the big league range.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

^ Certainly would!!

1.3 million would make it larger than the Buffalo area! However, given current trends, it'd take 1.3 million years, lol.

I wonder how long the area can stand to lose population? It has to bottom out sooner or later, wouldn't u think? Maybe it has already happened?

Another point. IF (yes it is a biiiig IF) Upstate were to experience a resurgence, It would be great to see a continuous CSA from Albany all the way to Buffalo, Given current population statistics, the scattering MSAs add up to about 4 million people, or the same number of ppl as Atlanta, GA. That's a good base to build off of if you ask me...

[CNYsyr]

I believe Onondaga County has bottomed out. The county that includes Syracuse grew about 2,000 from the year 2000 to 2004. Not that much growth, but at least its going in the right direction.

I would love to see Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse/Utica, Albany all each have metros in the 1.5 million range. Imagine four booming mid sized cities all along one corridor, the Thruway, one after the other!!! All competing, growing and important! Wow! I don't think there is another place in the country like that. Too bad its just a dream.

Here is a great website about Upstate's problem

http://www.ppinys.org/upstate_briefing_files/v3_document.htm

[catdaddy]

it is a lot of people in charlotte from upstate ny

[UTCdude23]

Lots of ppl from Upstate all over the southeast, lol. Funny how I can now find a decent bagel joint in Atlanta.

[psycuda]

Lots of ppl from Upstate all over the southeast, lol.  Funny how I can now find a decent bagel joint in Atlanta.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What's really surreal is that a couple of years ago a guy opened up a Spedie place in Kissimmee. You can't get much more upstate than that.

[UTCdude23]

Haha, what's next? Wegmans & Price Chopper??

[psycuda]

Haha, what's next?  Wegmans & Price Chopper??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Price Chopper, I doubt, but Wegmans might make it, and Dick's (it started in Binghamton, so it counts) is already down here and about to get into Florida

[ilektronik]

it is a lot of people in charlotte from upstate ny

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

SOOO true. i just moved here from Rochester. I just saw a guy this morning at Starbucks wearing a DinoBBQ t-shirt

[ilektronik]

I read somewhere that a demographer at Cornell reported that 30% of Upstate

[UTCdude23]

That's true. Many incumbent politicians use those "new residents" numbers to say that the population loss isn't all that bad... They leave out the part about prisoners tho. Just that they are new residents.

[UTCdude23]

I'd like to see where the migration patterns indicate people from upstate are moving to. Is it primarily places like Charlotte and FL? I know they are moving all over the southeast, but it'd be kinda interesting if there were heavy concentrations in certain areas.

[ilektronik]

I'd like to see where the migration patterns indicate people from upstate are moving to.  Is it primarily places like Charlotte and FL?  I know they are moving all over the southeast, but it'd be kinda interesting if there were heavy concentrations in certain areas.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wikipedia's Charlotte page has this blurb on the bottom of the History section:

"The Charlotte metropolitan area has attracted many people from the Northeast, especially from Buffalo, New York. Buffalonians (Buffalo residents) have taken to calling the city "Buffalo South"."

[UTCdude23]

Interesting article online today on Syracuse's Post-Standard

http://www.syracuse.com/business/poststand...7510.xml&coll=1

Apparently the area has experienced significant sustained job growth over the past year.

[psycuda]

Interesting article online today on Syracuse's Post-Standard

http://www.syracuse.com/business/poststand...7510.xml&coll=1

Apparently the area has experienced significant sustained job growth over the past year.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Problem is that most of the jobs are back office or retail, which means that the money isn't there, thus causing all of us native upstaters to continue to leave.

[RiverwoodCLT]

Vote out the High tax dudes out and put someome in that will lower taxes for better development in up-state NY.

Down south in Charlotte

[UTCdude23]

Oh if it were only that easy... One of the bigger problems is finding someone good enough to replace them.

[jackson]

nope, you guys got it wrong. only on the surface is NY state's taxing policy worse than any other state. its just that other states have different types of taxes that are more hidden. NYS doesn't have a bad economic policy, especially now with the empire state tax incentives.

[psycuda]

nope, you guys got it wrong. only on the surface is NY state's taxing policy worse than any other state. its just that other states have different types of taxes that are more hidden. NYS doesn't have a bad economic policy, especially now with the empire state tax incentives.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Problem is, companies come into NY, use the empire zone incentives, and pull the jobs out when the 5 years are up. I worked for a call center that did this. Also, too many people would move jobs from inside the area to the empire zone, not benefitting the community.

[UTCdude23]

Yah, Taxes alone aren't the only thing stifling the area, but they are a major contributor. Pollution restricitons, energy costs, etc. New York, to my knowledge is the second worst state to do business in... the first? California, LOL. But they still have good population growth due to natural increase and immigrants from other nations.

[Garris]

nope, you guys got it wrong. only on the surface is NY state's taxing policy worse than any other state. its just that other states have different types of taxes that are more hidden. NYS doesn't have a bad economic policy, especially now with the empire state tax incentives.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi everyone. I grew up in the Hudson Valley, and have been wondering forever why upstate NY can't turn things around. I mean, so many ingredients are there. An educated workforce, more top universities than many regions have, beautiful old cities ready made for urbanism, a housing market that's a positive steal vs lower New York State, etc. The winters aren't great, but certainly no worse than other booming areas (Minneapolis/St. Paul, Chicago, and even Cleveland has turned things around).

I realize that, like many areas of the rust belt, many of the upstate communities were tied to one industry or even one company, and that has hurt them. But so many rust belt areas have been able to turn things around based on quality of living, affordability, and smart economic policy. I remember when NAFTA passed, people predicted Buffalo was going to boom and be the center of the US-Canadian trade zone. What happened?

What are the issues holding upper New York State back? Is it really taxes? Is it policy? Is it perception? Is one issue politics? I can't remember anyone from upstate becoming big on the state political stage in quite some time...

- Garris

Providence, RI

(originally of Putnam County, NY)

[UTCdude23]

I think it has to do with a combination of all the factors that you just mentioned. It'd be interesting to compare these factors with those of Niagra Falls Canada, and Toronto. They have similar weather and are very close, but the Canadian side has grown while the Upstate side has declined.

[psycuda]

I believe Onondaga County has bottomed out. The county that includes Syracuse grew about 2,000 from the year 2000 to 2004. Not that much growth, but at least its going in the right direction.

I would love to see Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse/Utica, Albany all each have metros in the 1.5 million range. Imagine four booming mid sized cities all along one corridor, the Thruway, one after the other!!! All competing, growing and important! Wow! I don't think there is another place in the country like that. Too bad its just a dream.

Here is a great website about Upstate's problem

http://www.ppinys.org/upstate_briefing_files/v3_document.htm

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd also like to see a single airport in the Southern Tier, 13 4 laned from 17/86 to the outskirts of Ithaca, and the triple cites realize that they are nothing more than a college town, but it isn't gonna happen.