55 West

[radiostatic102]

I'm just an amateur musing about this, but I think the key to success for downtown is what is already happening: Don't just build it for the tourists. Build it for the people who live there. If you have people that live downtown, and a lot of them, then there will, naturally, be things to DO there. There will be shopping and places to eat. And movies. That's why I'm glad that all of the condos are being built. It will keep the core of the city strong, instead of rotting from the inside out with everyone evacuating to the suburbs and causing even more sprawl.

I love Orlando. It is in a class by itself among the rest of the cities in America, there is simply no other city like it. I'm glad to be living here especially now that it is experiencing a renaissance.

So I can't wait until I see those cranes for 55W go up!

[EngineerNole]

Im pretty young so I could be wrong, but I think Church St. started to lose most of it's draw a couple of years prior to the opening of Pleasure Island. I do believe that it was probably the nail in the coffin though. A lot of the lack of appeal has to do with the reidentfication of downtown as a party spot. At that time Church St. lost it's appeal almost at the same time downtown did. In the end downtown regained it's spot by finding the new appeal, and realizing what was once popular had completely outdated itself. Had Church St. been able to do the same I think things might've been different now.

If I'm not mistaken, Pleasure Island has been open for years prior to the opening of Downtown Disney. It used to be called Disney Village and Pleasure Island was right next door.

[WeNeed2Progress]

If I'm not mistaken, Pleasure Island has been open for years prior to the opening of Downtown Disney. It used to be called Disney Village and Pleasure Island was right next door.

Correct. Actually, Downtown Disney is a collection of three areas: The Marketplace, Pleasure Island, and the DTD Westside. The Marketplace was originally called the Village. Pleasure Island opened up in '89 (I believe) and the Westside somewhere around '94.

[JRS1]

To my recollection,

-WDW Village has been around since the late '70's.

-P.I., sounds right at around 1989.

-The AMC 24 expanded to 24 screens in the late '90's, right around the time the Westside was being built, which also resulted in the 3 sections being renamed for simplicity's sake. Planet Hollywood was already there when Westside (House of Blues, Cirque, etc...) were built.

-Church St. Sta.- Rosie's, the multi-level mall, etc. was still around in the late '90's.

In Fall 1997, I got a tour of the $2B Universal expansion by Nickelodeon's house counsel, which included Citywalk's construction, which opened over a year and a half later.

The Church St. Market with Howl, Jungle Jim's, etc., was happening as of 2000 when I was there last.

Remember, though, the Rave scene was big in the mid-nineties until the City changed all that around 1997 or so. So there were many factors that led to Church St.'s demise, not just PI or Citywalk.

55W-- demolition is chugging along this whole week so far with dump trucks taking away debris this a.m. and yesterday. The wait is now a thing of the past.

I foresee that when Plaza and 55W are both opened, it will creat a retail/entertainment core which will easily compete with the other two venues--- In fact, we'll have something they could only dream of having: real life homeless people panhandling patrons for $$ and food. It will be beautiful.

[JRS1]

Actually, I almost forgot. Pointe Orlando opened before Citywalk with Graham Central, Hooters, Marino's, FAO, etc. This added to the fray which further lured patrons away from Church St.

[orlandonative]

Thanks for the report JRS1. If anyone is able to get down there to take some photos of any major demo. that would be great. I suspect though that a lot of it is in the interior and wouldn't photograph very well as of yet.

[GregoryMCSE]

I foresee that when Plaza and 55W are both opened, it will creat a retail/entertainment core which will easily compete with the other two venues--- In fact, we'll have something they could only dream of having: real life homeless people panhandling patrons for $$ and food. It will be beautiful.

I was dreading another history of downtown disney post...then u totally redeemed your post with the "In fact, we'll have something they could only dream of having: real life homeless people panhandling patrons for $$ and food. It will be beautiful." lines. Magnificent.

[JRS1]

Yeah, I dreaded it too after I wrote it.

But there is one last factor I forgot to mention before regarding Church St.'s demise-- the great mall construction of the mid-to-late '90's-early 2000's. every little bit helps (or hurts, in this case).

FYI, there is a lot of dump truck activity on Church St. warranting periodic traffic stops.

[Orlandoguy24]

Correct. Actually, Downtown Disney is a collection of three areas: The Marketplace, Pleasure Island, and the DTD Westside. The Marketplace was originally called the Village. Pleasure Island opened up in '89 (I believe) and the Westside somewhere around '94.

actually the westside opened up around 98. I only remember because I hung out there when it first opened being a senior in high school.

[orlandonative]

No more please! I can't take it anymore.

[prahaboheme]

I remember when Old Town used to be the place to be on Saturday nights, complete with the car show and one man band. My dad dragged me there. It seems like it caught the similar fate of Church St when a lot of these newer places opened.

[WeNeed2Progress]

actually the westside opened up around 98. I only remember because I hung out there when it first opened being a senior in high school.

Oops! You're right... it was '97, PI in '89, and the Marketplace in '75.

[JRS1]

Anyways, I think the reason for the fervor of analyzing the dates of all these places starting up is for the sake of rehashing why Church St. went wrong, in the dawn of its resurgence.

Downtown is the sum of its parts. I still don't get why they shut down all the bars and restaurants inside Church St. Sta. Those places were always packed to my recollection.

[radiostatic102]

Anyways, I think the reason for the fervor of analyzing the dates of all these places starting up is for the sake of rehashing why Church St. went wrong, in the dawn of its resurgence.

Downtown is the sum of its parts. I still don't get why they shut down all the bars and restaurants inside Church St. Sta. Those places were always packed to my recollection.

Yes, it was me that was asking a couple of pages back. I wondered if there was even anything there anymore, and is there perhaps a chance it might come back in whole or in part as part of the future downtown scene now that 55 West is being built. I hadn't been down there in so long, I didn't even know if it was possible.

If 55 West is the catalyst that brings it back, then that building has very high marks in my book. I would put it on a par with the Plaza in that respect.

So it will be interesting to see how everything takes shape in that area!

[demon]

Downtown is already a pretty happening place now as far as nightlife goes. I don't think that 55 West will be the catalyst which improves the nightlife or revamps Church St Station. I think it will be all of the residences that are going up downtown that will do that.

[radiostatic102]

Downtown is already a pretty happening place now as far as nightlife goes. I don't think that 55 West will be the catalyst which improves the nightlife or revamps Church St Station. I think it will be all of the residences that are going up downtown that will do that.

Of course none of this could happen without all of the new development as a whole.

I suppose I meant to emphasize it

[facilities man]

Of course none of this could happen without all of the new development as a whole.

I suppose I meant to emphasize it

[JRS1]

Actually, 55W is directly going to be responsible for Church St.'s resurgence, mainly because they are re-doing Church St. Market after partial demolition. Before that, it was vacated with no activity.

Now, the ability to maintain Church St.'s success is directly attributable to the surrounding entertainment area as a whole and the new residences and the new image.

55W is just as important as Plaza in that respect. Without it, it would be the same old story and not much of a draw for new businesses and patrons.

[Tim3167]

Update 12/17/2005

Demo continues

[Chemmie]

That's not demolition. That's just the result of some looters getting in.

Nothing to see here...

[Tim3167]

Hmmm....interesting take.

All I can offer is that De Nial ain't just a river in Egypt.

[Jaybee]

They have tiny squirrels recruited from Lake Eola demolishing this building one brick at a time. Last we heard, they were unionizing.

[bande_originale]

I haven't been dowtown at night for a while, I'm glad to hear that it's got a good nightlife.

What's your definition of 'good' (as well as the previous poster to whom you're responding)? I used to go out in downtown Orlando during college, 5 to 8 years ago, and it didn't seem nearly as dicey as it does now. It's active, but pretty trashy. Back then there were competing clubs for indie music and 80s alternative (Cairo and Barbarella), the Church St debauchery was there if you were into that sort of thing (it had restaurants, at least), and the bars stayed open later. Something about it just seemed cooler; more laid back but more grown-up. Nowadays Orange and Central is the corner of 40-Ounce and Bling Bling. After 2 am it exhibits basically the worst traits of human behavior. Raunchy but not fun enough to be New Orleans; sleazy but not chic enough to be Miami. Picture Tampa's Guavaween without the ribald costumes or Alphabet City circa 1980 transported into the Britney Spears generation.

[pomegranate]

What's your definition of 'good' (as well as the previous poster to whom you're responding)? I used to go out in downtown Orlando during college, 5 to 8 years ago, and it didn't seem nearly as dicey as it does now. It's active, but pretty trashy. Back then there were competing clubs for indie music and 80s alternative (Cairo and Barbarella), the Church St debauchery was there if you were into that sort of thing (it had restaurants, at least), and the bars stayed open later. Something about it just seemed cooler; more laid back but more grown-up. Nowadays Orange and Central is the corner of 40-Ounce and Bling Bling. After 2 am it exhibits basically the worst traits of human behavior. Raunchy but not fun enough to be New Orleans; sleazy but not chic enough to be Miami. Picture Tampa's Guavaween without the ribald costumes or Alphabet City circa 1980 transported into the Britney Spears generation.

Oy! So well said!

I remember those days about 8 years ago... recently one of my friends from that era came back for a visit, and for old times' sake we headed over to Orange Avenue. Our first impression was that we had entered a scene from "Animal House."

I'm waiting for a decent jazz club to open up, or something along the lines of the old Monaco

Cocktail Bar. Hope it won't be a long wait. Until then, there's always Thornton Park.

[radiostatic102]

What's your definition of 'good' (as well as the previous poster to whom you're responding)? I used to go out in downtown Orlando during college, 5 to 8 years ago, and it didn't seem nearly as dicey as it does now. It's active, but pretty trashy. Back then there were competing clubs for indie music and 80s alternative (Cairo and Barbarella), the Church St debauchery was there if you were into that sort of thing (it had restaurants, at least), and the bars stayed open later. Something about it just seemed cooler; more laid back but more grown-up. Nowadays Orange and Central is the corner of 40-Ounce and Bling Bling. After 2 am it exhibits basically the worst traits of human behavior. Raunchy but not fun enough to be New Orleans; sleazy but not chic enough to be Miami. Picture Tampa's Guavaween without the ribald costumes or Alphabet City circa 1980 transported into the Britney Spears generation.

Actually I'm taking demon's word on how downtown nightlife is. I have no personal experience of what it's like at night downtown these days. A number of years ago I lived off of Bumby so I know what it was like back then, but I have since moved to the suburbs and have not been back to visit since. At least not at night. From your description, it sounds like, for the time being, downtown is a place to avoid at night.

Bling Bling, huh?

I know I'm stating the obvious, but it should be a much nicer place in about 5 years or so. I'm looking forward to that.