Should Arkansas Allow Gambling and/or Alcohol?

[johnnydr87]

Very interesting topic.

I voted the second option: both legal in certain counties.

If you look at Mississippi, they have definitely benefited from gambling. Tunica, MS, and the Gulf Coast have developed so much because of gambling. I forgot the figure, but a large percentage of their customers came from us.

But there is the flip side that I can understand too. In MS, it has also become a type of crutch. They are still ranked last in education. While the casino business booms, they are still lacking in other industries. Then there's the whole issue of "immoral decadence" that many claim befall states that allow these types of industries.

I think there could be a nice balance between our other money making industries and casinos if implemented correctly.

[Mith242]

Yes I guess this is an interesting enough discussion to have it's own topic. Hmmm...it's a little hard to say. I don't think you neccesarily have to make it available statewide. I'd be happy if there were just some concessions made and the state was willing to try a little gambling to see how things went. As was discussed in another area, Arkansas allows no gambling except horse racing in Hot Springs and dog racing in West Memphis. But neighboring states offer much more. And I doubt it's a secret that many people from Arkansas go across the border to gambling frequently. Which of course is lost revenue to the state of Arkansas. I had mentioned Benton County doing a study showing it was losing out on revenue because it's a dry county. But instead of going to Washington County to the south, many of the simply go across the border and buy it in Missouri. So not only is Benton County losing out so is Arkansas. I don't think you should neccesarily force all counties to go wet. I guess it makes a bigger difference in Benton County because it's now the second most populous county in the state after Pulaski. It's not that I don't appreciate people here having values and trying to stand up for them, but it just seems to me it's not working. You simply end up sending people and revenue across the state line. It's bad enough being a pretty poor state in the first place. Are there negatives to gambling and drinking? Yes but it's not like people aren't doing it anyway across state lines. Are we really hindering that many people from gambling because we don't have it available in the state? Perhaps in the past it made more sense. But now that there are casinos in Tunica, Mississippi; Shreveport, Louisiana; and now even Oklahoma is getting more into it also. There's the lottery in Texas and Missouri. Does Tennessee have anything? They may be the only bordering state not to have any gambling, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were looking into it too. If Arkansas was a rich state, then great no big deal. But we aren't and the state needs to take a harder look into finding ways to generate revenue. So I vote on allowing gambling, at least to a certain degree. I have no problem starting off slow, maybe only allow it in a city or two. Hot Springs has a history of gambling, that and it's actually a nice tourist area. No offence to Tunica, but if the casinos weren't there would anyone go there? It would be nice to have casinos in a place like Hot Springs, you could go to the casino and be in a nice area.

[Mith242]

I forgot to mention, my standpoint doesn't come from the fact that I want to have a closer place to gamble. I personally don't really care about gambling. But would I do care about is seeing potential revenue leaving the state.

[Mith242]

Getting back to the alcohol discussion. The biggest problem I have with alcohol is how it's controlled. To me having a handful of distributors controlling what you can and can't have seems almost monopolistic to me. I don't know how many times I've gone to a liquor store to see if I could get a particular type of wine their distributor doesn't carry it. And even if they knew of a way to get it they couldn't because they can only go through a few distributors. It's also illegal for me to order wine over the intenet here in Arkansas. I believe has started allowing people in the state to order wine from Arkansas wineries over the internet. Nevermind the fact that this helps hardly anyone because most people could drive and pick it up there instead and paying shipping and handling and insurance to have it shipped to you. The Supreme Court overruled Michigan and New York's internet wines laws. I believe Arkansas's is slightly different so it's still sorta in limbo. But most likely what will happen is to keep people from ordering all sorts of wine over the internet they will probably simply make it illegal to buy Arkansas wine over the internet. I have heard a joke that it's easier to buy a gun over the internet than a bottle of wine. I don't know whether it's true or not and I'm not getting into the gun issue just yet. Are there some hazards to perhaps teens abusing this and being able to buy wine, yes it's possible. But I just don't see it being that bad of a problem. Seems like it's just as easy for teens to go buy marijuana. I just feel the whole thing is being blown out of preportion.

[skirby]

A few thoughts on gambling in Arkansas and what it is missing. According to the study "Gaming in the Mississippi Economy" put out in 2000 by the University of Southern Missisippi, Arkansas is a big player. Non-residents generated 82% of all gaming revenues in the North River region. The number of persons from Arkansas who annually pass through the doors of Mississippi Casinos at this time was 5,396,794. The major threat to Mississippi gaming is the expansion of legal gambling in neighbor states. Also, it states that 1,672,922 visitors are from Oklahoma. In this case Arkansas is considered a pass through state. At the time of the study; projected state revenue from gaming would be more than 350 million. This is more than Arkansas takes in from coperate income tax a year.

[johnnydr87]

The number of persons from Arkansas who annually pass through the doors of Mississippi Casinos at this time was 5,396,794. [....] Also, it states that 1,672,922 visitors are from Oklahoma.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Whoaa. I never would have guessed that high. Insane...

[Mith242]

Whoaa.  I never would have guessed that high.  Insane...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not sure if I would have quite guessed that figure, but it doesn't shock me. I hear about people going to Tunica all the time. It's not quite as common up here in northwest Arkansas but that's probably just because we're further away. But Oklahoma is also starting to try more gambling in their state. I'm not saying allowing gambling will solve all of Arkansas's problem. But still that's a lot of money Arkansas is losing out on.

[skirby]

Update on the side effects of gambling in Mississippi. As reported on the Sunday night news a Pine Bluff man was in serious condition after being hit by an Arkansas gambler driving back from Mississippi. The car left the roadway and entered the man's house landing on top of him while he was asleep. Not only is out of state gambling a revenue drain but it is also a health hazard.

[johnnydr87]

Update on the side effects of gambling in Mississippi. As reported on the Sunday night news a Pine Bluff man was in serious condition after being hit by an Arkansas gambler driving back from Mississippi. The car left the roadway and entered the man's house landing on top of him while he was asleep. Not only is out of state gambling a revenue drain but it is also a health hazard.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

poor guy!

out of state gambling is a menace to our health.

[Mith242]

Here's a solution. With the way today's society is, Arkansas should now sue Mississippi.

[NCB]

i would say yes and no(biased)..yes because here in new orleans having harrahs casino and the riverboat cassinos on the misisssippi have really benifited the economy, as they have in biloxi and many southern cities in mississipi so i know that casinos would really help bring in money to the arkansas economy

i know many people living in southern arkansas drive down to shreveport to gamble(and that has really helped shreveports economy) so instead of LA and MS profiting from people from AR coming to gamble why not have AR profit from its own people putting money into the economy or other people from other states coming to gamble...

i would say no because i want shreveport and other north LA cities to continue to profit from gambers from AR. but....i am shure legalizing gambling would benefit arkansas in a good way....as for alchohol ....

[monsoon]

I say let the people have their wine and dice.

[Mith242]

Now the problem is will Arkansas ever legalize any type of gambling. People have tried for years but always been shot down. Seems like much of it being it being thrown out even before it was put to a vote. People not putting forth a bill in precise language to allow the proposition to be voted on. Then there's the group who wants it only in Hot Springs and West Memphis. Then there's the group who want it outside those two areas. Even though there seems to be a lot of support for it, there's never a unified force to vote it in. There is a unified group who will always vote against it no matter what, with this being the Bible Belt and all. The same problem with ever getting any new wet counties. Not to pick on one particular group, but there are more Baptists than any other group. And as far as I know Baptists don't believe in drinking alcohol. Now that doesn't stop all of them from doing some drinking but some of the same people who do actually drink some might still vote against making their county wet. The only county that I see happening is Benton County. Simply because there are so many out of state people moving into the area. Eventually they will outnumber the 'oldtimers' who don't want a wet county.

[arkansas_buff]

This bit of information is simply for all you "wish we were all wet" folks.

Wet or dry - which is safer?

The following is a comparison of crime statistics in wet and dry counties in Arkansas. The information in this section was taken from 1998 and 1999 crime figures reported by the Criminal Justice Institute at the University of Arkansas. Different crimes for different years were used for a better picture of the contrast. (No stats were available for later years.)

Percentages were figured per 1000 population and are averages of all counties

Wet county / dry county crime comparison of 8 major crimes for 1998

Percentage Differences:

122% more murder in wet

96% more rape in wet

326% more robberies in wet

127% more aggravated assault in wet

61% more burglaries in wet

29% more thefts in wet

86% more motor vehicle thefts in wet

205% more arson in wet

Wet county / dry county crime comparison of 7 serious but not major crimes for 1999

Percentage Differences:

142% more negligent manslaughter in wet

27% more simple assault in wet

120% more stolen property in wet

92% more vandalism in wet

90% more weapons violations in wet

29% more DUI's in wet

106% more drunkenness in wet

[arkansas_buff]

Chew on this: Average population growth from 1990 to 2000

in wet counties and dry counties in Arkansas.

(Taken from 2000 census data)

Wet - 7.4% avg. growth

Dry - 22% avg. growth

*******************************

Or this:

Average number of law enforcement personnel needed in 1998 for wet and dry counties

(Taken from the Arkansas Criminal Information Center)

Wet - 1 per 318 citizens

Dry - 1 per 501 citizens

or

37% more law enforcement personnel needed in wet counties

*******************************

ALL BECAUSE OF THOSE STINKIN' BAPTISTS!!!

[skirby]

Question: What is the population of wet and dry counties? Maybe all the crime in wet counties was done by those who live in dry counties and go to the wet side to do their handy work. What about counties with dry townships. Jacksonville has almost 30,000 population but is dry. It is a part of Pulaski County so all crime committed in Jacksonville is counted as part of Pulaski. Numbers can show anything if you look at them right or wrong.

[Mith242]

This bit of information is simply for all you "wish we were all wet" folks.

Wet or dry - which is safer?

The following is a comparison of crime statistics in wet and dry counties in Arkansas.  The information in this section was taken from 1998 and 1999 crime figures reported by the Criminal Justice Institute at the University of Arkansas. Different crimes for different years were used for a better picture of the contrast.      (No stats were available for later years.)

Percentages were figured per 1000 population and are averages of all counties

Wet county / dry county crime comparison of 8 major crimes for 1998

Percentage Differences:

                                                          122% more murder in wet

                                                            96% more rape in wet

                                                          326% more robberies in wet

                                                          127% more aggravated assault in wet

                                                            61% more burglaries in wet

                                                            29% more thefts in wet

                                                            86% more motor vehicle thefts in wet

                                                          205% more arson in wet

Wet county / dry county crime comparison of 7 serious but not major crimes for 1999

Percentage Differences:

                                                          142% more negligent manslaughter in wet

                                                            27% more simple assault in wet

                                                          120% more stolen property in wet

                                                            92% more vandalism in wet

                                                            90% more weapons violations in wet

                                                            29% more DUI's in wet

                                                          106% more drunkenness in wet

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Those are interesting numbers. It does help show there isn't necessarily any win-win situation. I still prefer to not have people telling me what I should do and how I should live my life though. I imagine you could also prove that more crime has happened with the development of more technology. So someone could argue that we should all live like the Amish. I still think a lot of all this has to do with the American mindset. In Europe alcohol is much more accepted and they tend to have fewer problems with alcoholism and such than the US.

[johnnydr87]

Those are interesting numbers.  It does help show there isn't necessarily any win-win situation.  I still prefer to not have people telling me what I should do and how I should live my life though.  I imagine you could also prove that more crime has happened with the development of more technology.  So someone could argue that we should all live like the Amish.  I still think a lot of all this has to do with the American mindset.  In Europe alcohol is much more accepted and they tend to have fewer problems with alcoholism and such than the US.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah. I steered somewhat clear of this topic before, but I was basically thinking the same thing as skirby.

Mith brought up some very interesting points.

[Mith242]

Yeah I'm not trying to get on anyone because they believe differently than I do. I don't have a problem with people wanting dry counties in Arkansas. I do wish Arkansas was a little more relaxed when it comes to things like alcohol. I personally don't think that if a county like Benton County went dry that all hell's about to break loose or anything. I also don't personally believe that alcohol is the root of all evil like some people do. But maybe that's just my non-Baptist background. I think one of the reasons there is more population growth in dry counties than wet has more to do with population growth developing outside the 'core' metro areas like Little Rock. Benton and Faulkner Counties probably make up a big percentage of the dry county growth.

[skirby]

I think the real question is are there any dry counties in the state. The wet/ dry issue is a joke. Join a private club and have a drink. Live near a stateline and drink on Sunday. This is what's wrong with Arkansas. There needs to be a different outlook on everything, from can you get a drink to the sorry state of education. If it keeps going the way it has the old saying will change from "Thank God for Mississippi to thank God for Mexico."

[johnnydr87]

Thank god for mexico?? hahaa.

[Mith242]

I think the real question is are there any dry counties in the state. The wet/ dry issue is a joke. Join a private club and have a drink. Live near a stateline and drink on Sunday. This is what's wrong with Arkansas. There needs to be a different outlook on everything, from can you get a drink to the sorry state of education. If it keeps going the way it has the old saying will change from "Thank God for Mississippi to thank God for Mexico."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You have a point. Maybe Arkansas's future motto can be 'Hey, we're a little better than Mexico'. But anyway I'm hoping that Arkansas is starting to turn the corner and is on it's way to improving at least some aspects. But as far as dry counties go, yeah in a lot of ways I wonder how dry most of them are. Quite a few probably simply go to another county to get alcohol especially on weekends. Then you have Benton County the wettest dry county in Arkansas. There's no liquor stores or any alcohol in the grocery stores but has anyone seen all the restaurants up there? Quite a few of them you have to fill out a memberships form that will allow you to buy drinks. If it wasn't for the restaurants I'd imagine I'd hear a lot more about making Benton County a wet county and I still think it's only a matter of time. It's only a matter of time before there's more out of state people that have moved in that will outnumber the older residents who wanted the county dry. I understand people have moral problems with alcohol and gambling. But it still really bothers me that there is a LOT of money flowing across state lines to Arkansas's neighboring states. And when you are already one of the poorest states and I think you have to do something about that. There's still a lot of people drinking and gambling they're simply going out of their county or even worse across the state line to do so. People argue about the negative aspects of gambling, it's true but aren't we already at that stage because we have millions of Arkansans going across state lines to gamble in our neighboring states. I simply think that since everyone is going to keep on doing it you should go ahead and have something inside the state so that Arkansas gets back some of the money.

[Mith242]

Here's one of our older topics. Wanted to bump it up and see what some of our newer forumers have to say about it. I was watching news and there was a story about the casinos in Mississippi, particularly along the Gulf Coast. Apparently casinos make up 25% of the state of Mississippi's income.

[mcheiss]

You have a point. Maybe Arkansas's future motto can be 'Hey, we're a little better than Mexico'. But anyway I'm hoping that Arkansas is starting to turn the corner and is on it's way to improving at least some aspects. But as far as dry counties go, yeah in a lot of ways I wonder how dry most of them are. Quite a few probably simply go to another county to get alcohol especially on weekends. Then you have Benton County the wettest dry county in Arkansas. There's no liquor stores or any alcohol in the grocery stores but has anyone seen all the restaurants up there? Quite a few of them you have to fill out a memberships form that will allow you to buy drinks. If it wasn't for the restaurants I'd imagine I'd hear a lot more about making Benton County a wet county and I still think it's only a matter of time. It's only a matter of time before there's more out of state people that have moved in that will outnumber the older residents who wanted the county dry. I understand people have moral problems with alcohol and gambling. But it still really bothers me that there is a LOT of money flowing across state lines to Arkansas's neighboring states. And when you are already one of the poorest states and I think you have to do something about that. There's still a lot of people drinking and gambling they're simply going out of their county or even worse across the state line to do so. People argue about the negative aspects of gambling, it's true but aren't we already at that stage because we have millions of Arkansans going across state lines to gamble in our neighboring states. I simply think that since everyone is going to keep on doing it you should go ahead and have something inside the state so that Arkansas gets back some of the money.

They are actually putting the Wet/Dry Issue for Benton County on the 2006 Election. Personally, I think the majority of the residents want the county to be wet simply because of Sales Tax, but their afraid of the outcomes being a wet county will result in.

[Aporkalypse]

Benton Co is effectively wet by selling liquor by the drink, it's just an inconvenience not to have immediate access to liquor stores. I don't think it impairs Benton Co's growth any more than it does in places like Richardson,TX. Even huge parts of the city of Dallas, including the area where I live, are dry but sell liquor by the drink. I think it does hurt when you don't allow liquor sales at all as Benton Co was when I was growing up and Saline and Faulkner have been for decades. Faulkner may be starting to come around, though. I have no doubt despite the fact that Faulkner and Saline are the #2 and #4 counties in the state in growth they have been decidedly impaired by the lack of restaurants and therefore reluctance of employers to relocate there and collateral development. Conway could be a much more impressive, self-sustaining and progressive city if it would ever fully embrace liquor by the drink.

As for gambling, I support localized gambling in Hot Springs and maybe a couple other locations. I hate losing all this revenue to Mississippi.