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krdarden

Hampton Roads development will surpass Charlotte!

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For some odd reason I can not post on Skyscraperpage so I thought that I would start a topic here because of one of the Charlotte posters who seems to think that Hampton Roads is not worthy of the same praise as Charlotte in terms of night-life and quality of life venues. Let's take a closer look at what is being developed here in HR and in Charlotte. Yes, Charlotte has some wonderful condos and big ticket items being planned; however, if all the developments proposed or underway in HR is taken into consideration, I think that we blow them out of the water! Every city in Hampton Roads with the exception of maybe Chesapeake has announced major developments recently if not already in the process of constructing something very significant. Again, Charlotte has some magnificent projects on the horizon yet it seems to me that they have pretty much peaked and will eventually level off while the opposite will hold true for us here in HR.

Norfolk has condo fever just like Charlotte but perhaps not at the same level but Charlotte does not have the waterfront that Portsmouth has which will eventually boast some of the most desirable condo vistas on the east coast! Norfolk's cruise terminal will lead to another round of development with perhaps the development of another luxury hotel or two to handle the expanding tourist spinoffs. The downtown plaza gives us a wealth of options and will expand downtown even more.

Norfolk advantage over Charlotte also lies in the fact that the city is growing in all areas and is really becoming a new city altogether. The oceanfront condos will attract people from all over including new residents from out of state and we will continue to retain most of our military retirees because of the quality of life and diversity that this region offers.

Virginia Beach alone is in the midst of development explosion from the oceanfront all the way to Towncenter and Princess Anne. I know that there are those who are against everything that city council or developer proposes there but change is going to happen regardless and they may as well accept this fact and move on or move out. The city is attractive and eventually, the jobs will follow and the Pembroke area has plenty of land to offer developers.

New Port News and Hampton is also catching the spirit and even Suffolk is progressively becoming more urban. Chesapeake seems to be the only conservative city among us but that will soon change.

Can you imagine having a property like fort Monroe available for development? Charlotte again is a very nice city but sorry, they don't have anything like it and never will! We won't even go into the historic advantages or natural resources that we have in abundance.

Finally, I am not here to rip on Charlotte because it is a wonderful city and even I am envious of some of the tall towers they have; nonetheless, the banks is their bread and butter and economic engine but we have several incubators coming together and driving this out-of -control train that we call Hampton Roads. Our time has come a decade later than Charlotte but indeed the world will soon know our name. The 2007 celebration of our country's 400th birthday will give us even more national and world coverage and recognition which even the banks of Charlotte can not buy! :P

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For some odd reason I can not post on Skyscraperpage so I thought that I would start a topic here because of one of the Charlotte posters who seems to think that Hampton Roads is not worthy of the same praise as Charlotte in terms of night-life and quality of life venues. Let's take a closer look at what is being developed here in HR and in Charlotte. Yes, Charlotte has some wonderful condos and big ticket items being planned; however, if all the developments proposed or underway in HR is taken into consideration, I think that we blow them out of the water! Every city in Hampton Roads with the exception of maybe Chesapeake has announced major developments recently if not already in the process of constructing something very significant. Again, Charlotte has some magnificent projects on the horizon yet it seems to me that they have pretty much peaked and will eventually level off while the opposite will hold true for us here in HR.

Norfolk has condo fever just like Charlotte but perhaps not at the same level but Charlotte does not have the waterfront that Portsmouth has which will eventually boast some of the most desirable condo vistas on the east coast! Norfolk's cruise terminal will lead to another round of development with perhaps the development of another luxury hotel or two to handle the expanding tourist spinoffs. The downtown plaza gives us a wealth of options and will expand downtown even more.

Norfolk advantage over Charlotte also lies in the fact that the city is growing in all areas and is really becoming a new city altogether. The oceanfront condos will attract people from all over including new residents from out of state and we will continue to retain most of our military retirees because of the quality of life and diversity that this region offers.

Virginia Beach alone is in the midst of development explosion from the oceanfront all the way to Towncenter and Princess Anne. I know that there are those who are against everything that city council or developer proposes there but change is going to happen regardless and they may as well accept this fact and move on or move out. The city is attractive and eventually, the jobs will follow and the Pembroke area has plenty of land to offer developers.

New Port News and Hampton is also catching the spirit and even Suffolk is progressively becoming more urban. Chesapeake seems to be the only conservative city among us but that will soon change.

Can you imagine having a property like fort Monroe available for development? Charlotte again is a very nice city but sorry, they don't have anything like it and never will! We won't even go into the historic advantages or natural resources that we have in abundance.

Finally, I am not here to rip on Charlotte because it is a wonderful city and even I am envious of some of the tall towers they have; nonetheless, the banks is their bread and butter and economic engine but we have several incubators coming together and driving this out-of -control train that we call Hampton Roads. Our time has come a decade later than Charlotte but indeed the world will soon know our name. The 2007 celebration of our country's 400th birthday will give us even more national and world coverage and recognition which even the banks of Charlotte can not buy! :P

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As much as I am dying to agree with you on all of these facts, I still dont feel we have the infastructure in place to turn into a charlotte right now. We need more direct links to major cities in the north and south before we can become a real business hub like charlotte, though I do agree they got extremely lucky that wachovia and BoA wanted their regional headquarters there. Those two make their skyline.

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As much as I am dying to agree with you on all of these facts, I still dont feel we have the infastructure in place to turn into a charlotte right now.  We need more direct links to major cities in the north and south before we can become a real business hub like charlotte, though I do agree they got extremely lucky that wachovia and BoA wanted their regional headquarters there.  Those two make their skyline.

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That's definitely a problem but we will eventually have to pay for this infrastructure with taxes or tolls because the state isn't going to come to our rescue! I believe that light-rail and other public-transportation means will become critical in the near future and will become a reality in the near future. You are so correct with our need to be able to link to the major cities to the north and south; furthermore, our location offers us an advantage being that we are centrally located in the middle of the east coast and within a day's drive over 1/3 of our country's population. Our climate and weather is desirable and we have all the ingredients to become great. The only thing holding us back is our great conservative state of Virginia and it's outdated policies. Charlotte is able to annex land every couple of years and will soon gain another 40,000 residents in the process. We need to become one region under one name so we can maximize our true potential. Charlotte will eventually become stagnant and people will move out of that city in droves because of a lack of natural and historic venues that man can not duplicate.

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Charlotte has the upper hand on good paying jobs as there are all types of jobs moving to that area. Matter of fact I just learned one department from my company was relocating there from Chicagoland. Unfortunately, we don't see a lot of good paying jobs moving our way like Charlotte does. The Trader announcement is the last big one I can remember off hand. On the other hand our area (esp Norfolk) offers a very historic area with tons of character. In addition we have water views every which way (bays, beaches, etc) while Charlotte just has Lake Gaston.

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Oh lord! Are u trying to start a war KR? :lol: I am very much a supporter of HR and it's development and I agree that one day our development will be comparable to Charlotte. That being said, I would prefer we stay away from these "my city is better than your city" threads at UP. As on other boards they tend to start a lot of unnecessary conflict and drama once forumers from the other city get into the mix. I'm going to allow this to remain open so far as things don't get out of hand. If they do however I will have to close this thread.

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Oh lord! Are u trying to start a war KR?  :lol:  I am very much a supporter of HR and it's development and I agree that one day our development will be comparable to Charlotte. That being said, I would prefer we stay away from these "my city is better that your city" threads at UP. As on other boards they tend to start a lot of unnecessary conflict and drama once forumers from the other city get into the mix. I'm going to allow this to remain open so far as things don't get out of hand. If they do however I will have to close this thread.

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:rolleyes: Not really Vdogg! :lol: But, as much as I love to have a very large downtown comparable to Charlotte, there are some things that all the towers in the world can't give you and that is character and charm and we all know that here in Hampton Roads, we have something special even if our representatives in Richmond and Washington choose to ignore us. The loss of our banks were Charlotte's gain but we have to learn to play with the hand that we were dealt and it's a winner if you know how to play the game! We have everything here that anyone could possibly ask for except for the transportation congestion.

I don't have anything against Charlotte personally other than perhaps a few of their forumers are even more dedicated to their city than me <_< Seriously though, Charlotte is a great city and I will be the first to admit that but we are 7 cities strong and many counties too. Our destiny is in front of us and with the likes of our forumers here and the many more who are actually making these dreams a reality, we are finally worthy of being noticed rather than being overlooked.

Finally, if we could get someone to do a downtown norfolk 2015 rendering to include all proposed developments on both sides of the water to include the fort norfolk area too, man, that would be just incredible. Just throw in a couple towers in the plaza area for good measure! :thumbsup:

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In all fairness though both areas truly are very different. It's not an apples to apples comparison lol.

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I have to agree, Hampton Roads is a collection of cities, it will never be one central region like charlotte, but at the same time can have a number of hotspots and has rivers and an ocean. While Charlotte is great, I think in due time Hampton Roads will become a powerful metro.

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We will never get the recognition that we want. 1. Richmond will die before they let us get that kind of recognition 2. When ever major news channels like nbc just keep referring to us as a place in Virginia and don't recognize us as the city, va. Something big would have to happen hear to make that happen. One big company would have to move here and I don't see that happening anytime soon.

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just for clarification, when you say Richmond, you are referring to our State Government correct? Even then, I'm sorry but I really doubt the state has a secret plan to hold down Hampton Roads.

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For some odd reason I can not post on Skyscraperpage.....

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Not exactly a bad thing. I haven't bothered with the nonsense there in almost two years. :D

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just for clarification, when you say Richmond, you are referring to our State Government correct? Even then, I'm sorry but I really doubt the state has a secret plan to hold down Hampton Roads.

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Really then how since we have proved that the taxes taken out and the taxes that come back are a very low percentage than that of NOVA and Richmond?????? It's a fact that the state doesn't like to recognize how important this area is... I don't think that we should be comparing ourselves with Charlotte. They are a totally different market than us.

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just for clarification, when you say Richmond, you are referring to our State Government correct? Even then, I'm sorry but I really doubt the state has a secret plan to hold down Hampton Roads.

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It is not a question of a secret plan, but by just about anyway you look at things, Hampton Roads comes up short in the political process of Virginia. I have been amazed for 30 years at the inability of legislators in this area to team up for the betterment of this corner of Virginia.

What other area of Virginia was forced to accept being a cul-de-sac on the interstate highway system? Where else are highway projects managed like I-64 in Hampton and Newports News? Speaking of highway projects, where are they?

Chesapeake Pirate

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How come Richmond has so many highways? They finished the 895, the road to nowhere. HR needs to hook up with NC can create a more direct and limited-access route to Raleigh by connecting RTE 17 with RTE 64. Not only will it help HR but will also help NE NC, which NC should like.

I doubt Charlotte will shrink. NC is supposed to be one of the fastest growing states over the next 20 years, adding 4 million more people. They can't all live in Raleigh and the Triad. Connecting to that growth would definitely help HR.

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It is not a question of a secret plan, but by just about anyway you look at things, Hampton Roads comes up short in the political process of Virginia.  I have been amazed for 30 years at the inability of legislators in this area to team up for the betterment of this corner of Virginia.

What other area of Virginia was forced to accept being a cul-de-sac on the interstate highway system?  Where else are highway projects managed like I-64 in Hampton and Newports News?  Speaking of highway projects, where are they?

Chesapeake Pirate

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Very well put.

In an ideal world I'd love to see Rte. 13/CBBT turned into a real interstate-style highway with a MUCH lower toll (Wtf is up with $12!?). That would give us a straight shot up to Delaware and Philly and on to NYC. Another highway (58 and/or 460) would further connect us and reduce that image of a "cul-de-sac" which frankly stagnates our economy in many ways.

I think that if our transportation issues would dissolve then we could even exceed Charlotte as a region. For now, we should focus on improving that aspect of ourselves.

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As much as I am dying to agree with you on all of these facts, I still dont feel we have the infastructure in place to turn into a charlotte right now.  We need more direct links to major cities in the north and south before we can become a real business hub like charlotte, though I do agree they got extremely lucky that wachovia and BoA wanted their regional headquarters there.  Those two make their skyline.

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I have nothing against Hampton Roads, but let's be real. Buisness is what drives development. That's why Charlotte is Charlotte and Norfolk is Norfolk. Atlanta doesn't have a waterfront, and look at it. It's about money. Period. Find some huge corporations to call the banks of the James River home, and have at it.

And for the record, the Bank of America and Wachovia's corporate headquarters are here, not regional.

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I have nothing against Hampton Roads, but let's be real.  Buisness is what drives development.  That's why Charlotte is Charlotte and Norfolk is Norfolk.  Atlanta doesn't have a waterfront, and look at it.  It's about money.  Period.  Find some huge corporations to call the banks of the James River home, and have at it. 

And for the record, the Bank of America and Wachovia's corporate headquarters are here, not regional.

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You called it, Vdogg :rofl: It didn't take long for Charlotte nerves to be frayed.

I rather enjoy looking at Charlotte's skyline though. It is a remarkable city with some of the top 100 tallest buildings in the world and their architecture is absolutely impeccable.

Nonetheless, Atlanta and Charlotte don't have the "charm" of our area, IMO. Charm doesn't in any way equate to dollar signs, but we have it. We're diverse and utterly unique. You could plop a Charlotte anywhere and it would be the same, whereas HR has so many unique qualities to it I can't even begin to compile a list on here.

As far as big corporations coming here... as NYC, Charlotte, Chicago, Atlanta prices per sq/foot go up and up, areas like Hampton Roads might just look a bit more appetizing. The prices per/sq/ft in the Armada Hoffler Tower are in the low $20's whereas the average in New York City is upwards of $70-100. It's a lot cheaper to operate a business out of our area and as we become more established we might just snag a NYC Fortune 500 company or two :thumbsup: Also... keep an eye on our regional banks and Norfolk Southern, two large influences in this area.

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I have nothing against Hampton Roads, but let's be real.  Buisness is what drives development.  That's why Charlotte is Charlotte and Norfolk is Norfolk.  Atlanta doesn't have a waterfront, and look at it.  It's about money.  Period.  Find some huge corporations to call the banks of the James River home, and have at it. 

And for the record, the Bank of America and Wachovia's corporate headquarters are here, not regional.

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What you said is very true; however, remember where Charlotte was just 20 years ago before the big bank mergers and the NBA! I really do like Charlotte and agree that your skyline is awesome but the jobs will eventually find their way to this region just like it did to Charlotte. We will have Regis in town on wednesday to showcase our blossoming cruise industry which is on the verge of taking off!

Hey Vdogg, it's still civil in here and no messy punches thrown so "not yet my friend, not yet!

Also, thanks for sharing your thoughts Miesian Corners. Charlotte has really come onto the scene as a major metropolitian area and it's all about the money as you said. With that in mind, this area is a lot more wealthy than people think. Our average incomes may be lower than most metropolitian areas; nonetheless, we make up the difference with the thousands of military retirees and their pension income which equates to more spending power and the proof is evident everywhere here with large homes and condos being built all over the region.

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You called it, Vdogg  :rofl:  It didn't take long for Charlotte nerves to be frayed.

I rather enjoy looking at Charlotte's skyline though.  It is a remarkable city with some of the top 100 tallest buildings in the world and their architecture is absolutely impeccable.

Nonetheless, Atlanta and Charlotte don't have the "charm" of our area, IMO.  Charm doesn't in any way equate to dollar signs, but we have it.  We're diverse and utterly unique.  You could plop a Charlotte anywhere and it would be the same, whereas HR has so many unique qualities to it I can't even begin to compile a list on here.

As far as big corporations coming here... as NYC, Charlotte, Chicago, Atlanta prices per sq/foot go up and up, areas like Hampton Roads might just look a bit more appetizing.  The prices per/sq/ft in the Armada Hoffler Tower are in the low $20's whereas the average in New York City is upwards of $70-100.  It's a lot cheaper to operate a business out of our area and as we become more established we might just snag a NYC Fortune 500 company or two  :thumbsup:  Also... keep an eye on our regional banks and Norfolk Southern, two large influences in this area.

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Nerves aren't frayed. I've lived in Philadelphia, Los Angeles, Tampa and Greensboro in my professional adult life. I call Charlotte home now and like it very much. I am a real estate market analyst by trade. I'm just trying to put things in perspective (for you).

Developers don't simply plop large office and condo towers down on just any piece of real estate. They do market studies (my job) to justify cost, demand, and profit. There is no doubt that Hampton Roads is a very desirable housing market, but demographically speaking, Charlotte, Raleigh and Atlanta are more attractive (at the current time). This can be read: "developers will make more money here, so they build here." That's all I was saying.

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Well, I had to figure this would start a Charlotte vs Hampton Roads (Norfolk) thread.

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Naw! there is room for both of us to prosper! Actually, it's a bit more fun watching this area grow up considering we were so underdeveloped for a region our size!

The NIMBY crowd has had it's day for much too long and now it's time to act like a metropolitan area of 1.7 million instead of one of 1.7 thousand.

I am happy that Miesian Corners shared his insight with the rest of us! I can certainly understand the logic of developers and money making thus I am even more encouraged here because our potential is enormous. The impact that our new developments will transform our downtown(s) and help bring them on par with what people would expect from a region so large.

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Nerves aren't frayed.  I've lived in Philadelphia, Los Angeles, Tampa and Greensboro in my professional adult life.  I call Charlotte home now and like it very much.  I am a real estate market analyst by trade.  I'm just trying to put things in perspective (for you). 

Developers don't simply plop large office and condo towers down on just any piece of real estate.  They do market studies (my job) to justify cost, demand, and profit.  There is no doubt that Hampton Roads is a very desirable housing market, but demographically speaking, Charlotte, Raleigh and Atlanta are more attractive (at the current time).  This can be read:  "developers will make more money here, so they build here."  That's all I was saying.

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Can you please justify Charlotte and Raleigh housing markets as being more attractive to developers? From what I've read, those two especially the latter are over-built markets. Supply is outpacing demand so home prices are not rising as quickly as in other markets including HR. An article in Money magazine from the past year (cannot remember the exact issue) actually listed the NC markets as undervalued because of high supply. I do believe NC would be a market to buy in now because of Census projections for high population growth over the next 20 years (i.e. demand will catch and overtake supply). Average home prices in HR are slightly higher than those in Raleigh and somewhat higher than in Charlotte. Wouldn't that make HR more attractive to developers in the near-term?

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Naw! there is room for both of us to prosper! Actually, it's a bit more fun watching this area grow up considering we were so underdeveloped for a region our size!

The NIMBY crowd has had it's day for much too long and now it's time to act like a metropolitan area of 1.7 million instead of one of 1.7 thousand.

I am happy that Miesian Corners shared his insight with the rest of us! I can certainly understand the logic of developers and money making thus I am even more encouraged here because our potential is enormous. The impact that our new developments will transform our downtown(s) and help bring them on par with what people would expect from a region so large.

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We'll start acting like a 1.7 million metro region when we reach that. heh

Here are the latest figures. For both the Hampton Roads and Charlotte

Hampton Roads

2004 metropolitan population: 1,644,250

2000 metropolitan population: 1,576,370

increase of 4.3% or 67,880

Charlotte

2004 metropolitan population: 1,474,734

2000 metropolitan population: 1,330,448

increase of 10.8% or 144,286

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