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Lunican

$4 per gallon?

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$4 a gallon wont happen for many years, infact gas prices arent that high. The only reason that they went to around $2 is because of inflation with the rising cost of living and also the fallen value of the dollar. The war in Iraq has almost nothing to do with it. Now everybody is predicting the end of the world or america its complete bs. By the time $4 a gallon comes around somebody out there would get pissed and start working on a new fuel or a big company sees any oppurtunity to make $$$ by making a new fuel for cars and a conversion place that converts gas cars to the new fuel. Point is people wont stand around and do nothing and we are also a long way off before all of this happens so these ppl gotta stop with these stupid doomsday stories <_< .

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The article takes a very real possibility ($4 gas) and makes some really absurd predictions. $4 gas won't destroy our way of life (though it may finally bankrupt the older non-discount airlines). You can always tell a paranoid conspiracy theorist when they manage to discuss American military policy in a transportation article.

But overall, I think $4+ gas might be a good thing (assuming it doesn't cause a huge drop in the stock market - thus screwing me over). Contrary to the author's claim, I don't think it's expensive enough to cause an economic depression. However, it might be expensive enough to promote urban development. Hell, maybe it'll finally force people like me to put my money where my mouth is and buy a place downtown.

At the very least, if people stopped driving so much, maybe traffic congestion will lighten. Then the government might stop spending so much on highway construction.

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The biggest reason for people moving to the suburbs is affordability you might see wealithy people moving to the suburbs but for the most part they live in the city because they can afford it, But what about the working class who's dream is to own a home in a decent neighborhood and the size they need. With housing prices going into space the more the working class will go to these suburbs. The idea of people getting off the highways and not using the car as much is unlikely.

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You should note that in Europe they do have high speed rail and much better transit, and they lack an abundance of giant SUV's.

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Well, the article appears to be a standard "doomsday" oil article. Of course, he has to predict the worse possible scenario, however it won't happen like that. The entire economy will not go to crap over night. Of course, there are a *few* valid concerns about it. The main one is that oil is going away. It may be 5 years or 50 years before it does, but it will eventually go away. The problem is that there is nothing anywhere on the horizon that could possibly replace our current infrastructure with a non-petroleum energy source. Yes, people will come up with a new solution, however we are so short-sighted that we will not think about implementing one until the prices in even the cheapest areas have hit $4/gal. The best solution would be one that starts now, and it must include non-fossil fuel based power plants, more efficient vehicles across the board, and country-wide improvements in mass transit systems. You might also want to throw in the idea that not everyone can have their own standalone house with a huge yard.

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Agreed. The same kind of artitles appeared during the oil shocks of the 1970s. And we are not even close to gas rationing and gas lines that we had back then.

The sad thing is, we scrapped all of the alternative energy programs that were started then. We would be in much better shape if we stuck to them.

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I agree with others who pointed out the absurdity of this article. The tone of the article is typical of your sky-is-falling, extreme leftists. I suspect this guy is a watermelon too - green on the outside, but red on the inside.

As to the $4 price per gallon, as Bostech stated, Europe is already at $7-8 per gallon (b/c of taxes) and they are still experiencing suburban sprawl like in the US. Some people just actually prefer this way of life.

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I agree with others who pointed out the absurdity of this article.  The tone of the article is typical of your sky-is-falling, extreme leftists.  I suspect this guy is a watermelon too - green on the outside, but red on the inside.

As to the $4 price per gallon, as Bostech stated, Europe is already at $7-8 per gallon (b/c of taxes) and they are still experiencing suburban sprawl like in the US.  Some people just actually prefer this way of life.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's one of the problems with us Americans, we never want to see the forest for or through the trees until it is too late; in my opinion this is not a doomsday article but a real possible/probable scenario. Why?

1) Many nations world-wide are rooting for any currency to replace the dollar; this can spell doom for America.

2) Many nations are withdrawing their support of the dollar and are turning to the Euro or the Yen, or other currencies for support. If support for our currency is withdrawn, this could also spell certain economic and financial doom and ruin.

3) Our economy is extremely fragile at present; we have too many foreign entitites invested in this country and the dollar; if they ever pull out or we piss them off and they withdraw their support, for whatever reason, we are virtually finished economically and financially.

4) If the economy goes, so does the stock market, finances, business, military, government, and America as we know it; the powers that be know that we have a very short time but are keeping it from us; what proof do I have? Just look at our nation in regards to our trade deficit, national debt, financial well-being, etc. We are sick and in need of some type infusion...but there is none and will not be none because we are too far gone! We have spent our children's children's money and beyond!

5) We have plunged ourself into a debt that goes forward to 2 to 3 generations; we will never be able to adequately recover into the green. Thanks to our current administration, the reason we are cutting back on everything is because there is no money! NONE! But it is too late.

6) Other countries know our possible predicament, demise and the state that we are in; that is why many countries, even the smaller weaker ones, are now standing up to America. Our days are numbered. When the piper soon calls to be paid, no one will help us or defend us...in fact, I'll bet my a** that many nations will come together to the UN and mandate that a UN FORCE come to our rescue because we cannot defend or help ourself; so what you do always comes back to you....like us invading other nations against their will, etc. "What goes around comes around." And we will not be able to do anything about it.

I love this nation, country, America....but we need to step up and fix our ailments now. I don't want to spell doom and gloom but wake up America and smell the coffee! We need to do whatever it takes to curb and reduce excessive spending and luxuries and heal our finances and economy. We cannot help the world anymore; we need to help ourselves first and then maybe later help everyone else. We are hated more now than at anytime in our history and many world-wide are rooting for our decline and eventual demise to a second rate lesser power. Only us, Americans, can pull together and stop this slide into wantoness.

I know I'll piss some people off, but if you remain blind to our "real" state, it'll piss you off more when it happens.

FLORIDA SKYRISE ORDER

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The last President, Jimmy Carter, who encouraged Americans to make sacrifices for the common good, was voted out by a landslide. He was replaced by the "Reagan New Republican Revolution" which we still live with today. Jimmy Carter left office in 1980.

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1) Many nations world-wide are rooting for any currency to replace the dollar; this can spell doom for America.

Having read a LOT about this, I can tell you that countries dropping the dollar as a reserve currency has recently become less, not more, likely with the EU Constitution being turned down by voters in both France and Holland. There are also rumblings that several nations may drop out of the Euro entirely. Either way, the fact that your currency is or isnt used for reserves by various central banks has very little to do with economic growth in your country. Other countries seem to be doing fine whose currencies are not used in this fashion.

2) Many nations are withdrawing their support of the dollar and are turning to the Euro or the Yen, or other currencies for support. If support for our currency is withdrawn, this could also spell certain economic and financial doom and ruin.

See above answer.

3) Our economy is extremely fragile at present; we have too many foreign entitites invested in this country and the dollar; if they ever pull out or we piss them off and they withdraw their support, for whatever reason, we are virtually finished economically and financially.

The US economy growing faster than all of Europe and is keeping pace nicely with Asia. Foreign investors prefer to invest here because we have one of the most free and dynamic economies on earth. The socialism I presume you advocate would cause capital flight to occur as foreigners move their money to other more free economies. Thus, in order to preserve and continue our economic growth, we need pro-growth policies such as low taxes, low regulations and good fiscal policy.

4) If the economy goes, so does the stock market, finances, business, military, government, and America as we know it; the powers that be know that we have a very short time but are keeping it from us; what proof do I have? Just look at our nation in regards to our trade deficit, national debt, financial well-being, etc. We are sick and in need of some type infusion...but there is none and will not be none because we are too far gone! We have spent our children's children's money and beyond!

Economies just dont "go" overnight. These is no evidence that what you are stating is happening. Trade deficits are arguably not a bad thing since they represent the subsidization of our high standard of living by cheap Chinese/foreign labor. Also, trade balance figures often leave off capital inflows from the profit of multi-national companies based in the US, entertainment money, i.e. movies and music, etc. As to the national debt, this should be less, but it is less now as a percentage of GDP than it has been in the past. This can also be changed rapidly as increased economic activity produces greater tax revenue (we are seeing this now as the budget deficit is dropping).

5) Other countries know our possible predicament, demise and the state that we are in; that is why many countries, even the smaller weaker ones, are now standing up to America. Our days are numbered. When the piper soon calls to be paid, no one will help us or defend us...in fact, I'll bet my a** that many nations will come together to the UN and mandate that a UN FORCE come to our rescue because we cannot defend or help ourself; so what you do always comes back to you....like us invading other nations against their will, etc. "What goes around comes around." And we will not be able to do anything about it.

Our military is so far advanced over all of the other nations on earth that it would take a coalition of almost the entire rest of the world to defeat us, and this is not counting nuclear weapons which we would probably employ to defend us from invasion. This is the most far fetched thing I have heard in a great while. The only invasion we face now is along our Mexican border and this can be stopped physically if we can gather the political will to overcome the PC nonsense and properly defend the southern border.

In short, you are wrong on all counts. America is the richest, most powerful country on earth BY FAR. While this may not last forever, we will have no real rivals for at least 25 years in my opinion.

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I generally agree with Riversidegators' rebuttal. Particularly noteworthy is his correct observation that our economy is still growing faster than the EU area, Japan, or really any other industrialized nation.

Also, in regards to #6 ... the US provides 25% of the UNs budget. The UN couldn't even function without the US (not that it functions well to begin with) much less invade anyone. :lol:

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The last President, Jimmy Carter,  who encouraged Americans to make sacrifices  for the common good, was voted out by a landslide.  He was replaced by the "Reagan New Republican Revolution" which we still live with today.  Jimmy Carter left office in 1980.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As I said, the normal everyday American never sees or plans to see the forest for the trees; it's all about us, right here, right now, never looking into the future, or for other possibilities that may or can happen; and then when it hits us, we scramble to fix it. Next time we won't be able to fix it.

You are wrong on all of your rebuttals; open your eyes and quit thinking all is well because the politicians tell you say, and the corporate executives lie and manipulate their performance indicators and financial indexes.

America is not as well as we all think. Do some more investigating through the internet and world-wide regarding the hatred for America, the crumbling dollar, and our soon to crash economy.

FLORIDA SKYRISE ORDER

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Having read a LOT about this, I can tell you that countries dropping the dollar as a reserve currency has recently become less, not more, likely with the EU Constitution being turned down by voters in both France and Holland.  There are also rumblings that several nations may drop out of the Euro entirely.  Either way, the fact that your currency is or isnt used for reserves by various central banks has very little to do with economic growth in your country.  Other countries seem to be doing fine whose currencies are not used in this fashion.

See above answer.

The US economy growing faster than all of Europe and is keeping pace nicely with Asia.  Foreign investors prefer to invest here because we have one of the most free and dynamic economies on earth.  The socialism I presume you advocate would cause capital flight to occur as foreigners move their money to other more free economies.  Thus, in order to preserve and continue our economic growth, we need pro-growth policies such as low taxes, low regulations and good fiscal policy.

Economies just dont "go" overnight.  These is no evidence that what you are stating is happening.  Trade deficits are arguably not a bad thing since they represent the subsidization of our high standard of living by cheap Chinese/foreign labor.  Also, trade balance figures often leave off capital inflows from the profit of multi-national companies based in the US, entertainment money, i.e. movies and music, etc.  As to the national debt, this should be less, but it is less now as a percentage of GDP than it has been in the past.  This can also be changed rapidly as increased economic activity produces greater tax revenue (we are seeing this now as the budget deficit is dropping).

Our military is so far advanced over all of the other nations on earth that it would take a coalition of almost the entire rest of the world to defeat us, and this is not counting nuclear weapons which we would probably employ to defend us from invasion.  This is the most far fetched thing I have heard in a great while.  The only invasion we face now is along our Mexican border and this can be stopped physically if we can gather the political will to overcome the PC nonsense and properly defend the southern border.

In short, you are wrong on all counts.  America is the richest, most powerful country on earth BY FAR.  While this may not last forever, we will have no real rivals for at least 25 years in my opinion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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I generally agree with Riversidegators' rebuttal. Particularly noteworthy is his correct observation that our economy is still growing faster than the EU area, Japan, or really any other industrialized nation.

Also, in regards to #6 ... the US provides 25% of the UNs budget. The UN couldn't even function without the US (not that it functions well to begin with) much less invade anyone.  :lol:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think so, you are wrong on all accounts, especially about what we provide to the UN. And oh, our economy is only growing because of all the investments and trade with OTHER COUNTRIES; OTHER COUNTRIES control our economy and buying power because Americans are too busy not working and smoking c****. If we would go back to work, save our money, invest in the future, etc., we would control our economy; but no, we do stupid things like sell our companies to foreign countries, and import more than we export (trade imbalance). If other countries wanted to strangle us, NOW IS THE TIME TO DO IT. So don't tell me about the economy, Americans do not control our economy, foreignors do.

FLORIDA SKYRISE ORDER

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Americans are too busy not working and smoking c****

Americans actually work more than most other people in the world in terms of hours worked per week. We outpace all European nations and most Asian nations, as I recall. Also, I am an American and I work 11-12 hours a day, not counting my second job of managing my rental properties. What about your work habits? And, are you in high school?

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Americans actually work more than most other people in the world in terms of hours worked per week.  We outpace all European nations and most Asian nations, as I recall.  Also, I am an American and I work 11-12 hours a day, not counting my second job of managing my rental properties.  What about your work habits?  And, are you in high school?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You may be right, but the fact is, if Europeans, or other nations for that matter maintain superior economies, buying power, etc., and work less hours than Americans, then SHOULDN'T THAT TELL YOU THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG? Where is our money going and why do we still maintain an economy that is teetering on the brink of collapse?

FLORIDA SKYRISE ORDER

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FLORIDA SKYRISE ORDER: Instead of just making outrageous, unsupported, conclusory statements like "our economy teeters on the brink of collapse", please cite specific statistics, studies or other data which support your premise. This (if such evidence exists - which I doubt) would make your claims a lot more powerful.

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You may be right, but the fact is, if Europeans, or other nations for that matter maintain superior economies, buying power, etc., and work less hours than Americans, then SHOULDN'T THAT TELL YOU THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG?

Actually Americans have among the highest standards of living on earth. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Human_Development_Index

and the second highest per capita GDP. See http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbo...r/2004rank.html

So, you are wrong again. Please explain what is wrong with America now.

I think you have been listening too closely to the Democratic talking points lately. :lol:

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FLORIDA SKYRISE ORDER:  Instead of just making outrageous, unsupported, conclusory statements like "our economy teeters on the brink of collapse", please cite specific statistics, studies or other data which support your premise.  This (if such evidence exists - which I doubt) would make your claims a lot more powerful.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually I think his points are valid but not stated very well. The American economy is awash in debt (Americans' personal debt is large and increasing while the federal government deficits are huge and endless). Who owns this debt? In increasing numbers, Asian central banks, including China and Japan. By holding our debt, they dictate the terms of payment and also exercise the right to sell at any time, with likely destructive effects on the USA if they choose to do so. This debt is all dollar-denominated, meaning any such sell off will be an attack on the linchpin of US control on the global economy - the dollar.

Former Fed chairman Paul Volcker says "Altogether the circumstances seem to me as dangerous and intractable as any I can remember, and I can remember quite a lot." Maybe you should inform him to quit making "outrageous, unsupported, conclusory statements" which don't conform to your worldview?

There is a lot of reading that can be done on this subject and much of it isn't pretty. The USA has racked up a huge debt load (almost all of it since 1980) and eventually somebody will have to be paid plus interest. The original article correctly understands that energy is the center of the USA's economic functioning, where most manufacturing is sent to Asia and consumer goods are imported thousands of miles. These products are then sold at big box stores in suburban areas to people who drive automobiles and SUVs back to their heavily mortgaged houses in recently built McMansion subdivisions. Needless to say, this whole pattern of living is predicated on reliable energy sources, particularly oil. If oil supply becomes a problem, so does our suburb-based economy and the ability of individuals to make payments on ever increasing debt.

Since you insist on data being provided for you, here are a few graphs I found in a few minutes of looking. Note that Japan alone now owns over $700 billion dollars in US debt and over $350 billion of new US debt was sold overseas last year. That is a big number and it only includes US government debt - private debt is not even included!

0123_1.gif

0123_2.gif

0302_5.gif

0203_6.gif

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:D Wow yalls post are very interesting!

Please read this http://money.cnn.com/2005/06/23/news/econo...dex.htm?cnn=yes I believe China is going to be another super power. I mean look at their population. That just says money to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well China has a couple of obvious problems that will limit its quest for dominance.

Where will it get the energy (read: oil) to enable its ascent? (hint, the same places that supply the rest of the world and are already maxed out)

Where will they get the food to feed a growing population numbered in the billions? China's agricultural capacity is diminishing from desertification and North America's ability to export food will likely decrease in the future.

Without an obvious answer to either question, it seems premature to assume China will be the next great power...

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As to China's possible emergence as a world power, they still have some significant issues to confront in their own country. For example, people in the N of China speak the Mandarin dialect and people in the S of China speak Catonese. Apparently, these dialects have the same written language, but are mutually unintelligible when spoken. And, they have secessionist movements in the west. Also, it remains to be seen how an increasingly prosperous populace will put up with political repression and having no say in public affairs. And, the vast majority of China's population is still dirt poor peasantry.

So, China is slowly but surely coming up, but they will face significant growing problems. Time will tell how well they deal with these.

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