Potential New Office Towers Inside 277 Loop

[monsoon]

Are you including the homeless in your population counts?  You might be right if you are.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nope. Hugh McColl was promoted to president of NCNB in 1974 and there were many more people living in the CBD then. And there was a great deal more shopping too. Sears, Iveys, Belks were all fairly bustling places.

[Miesian Corners]

Mr McColl very well have been responsible for tearing down some of uptown, but he by no means drove anyone to the suburbs. Earle Village was built in the mid-1960s, Brooklyn was cleared (with the blessing and pushing of EC Griffith) beginning in 1963. Fourth Ward was a custer of vacant lots and five dilapidated Victorians. Mr McColl joined North Carolina National Bank in 1959 as a branch banker.

He was responsible for helping keep the headquarters of NCNB uptown (it was going to the burbs) and persuaded the bank to build the 40-story NCNB Plaza in 1971. Under his guidance, Charlotte got it's first full-service modern hotel (Radisson Plaza--now Omni), spearheaded the fight for liquor-by-the-drink to get decent restaurants and hotels and to aid the convention biz. He pushed for the Blumenthal Center, Spirit Square, Discovery Place, and the Mint. He won international acclaim for the redevelopement of First Ward, created the NCNB Uptown Development Corporation (the forerunner of Center City Partners) who offered low interest loans for the rebirth of Fourth Ward, and had the bank pay for the CATS Transit Center on land the bank owned. He gave rebirth to Third Ward in the 1980s by financing Clarkson Place and Clarkson Green, built Gateway Center, and 15 years later, Gateway Village.

In 1970, uptown had 17,000 workers, today it's home to 56,000. In 1980, the U.S. Census reported 4,042 residents uptown. This total number is smaller than the population of Fourth Ward alone in 1920, and less than uptown has had at any time since the 1860s. By 2001, the number had jumped to 7,000 residents. Here in 2005, the urban core will soon reach a population of 11,000. Mr McColl is partly responsible for that rebirth and the influx of new residents.

Belk closed its uptown store in 1990, and leased the land in the northeast quadrant of Trade and Tryon to NCNB Corp for $1.00 on a 100-year lease term. Dillard's purchased Ivey's from Federated Department Stores in 1989 and closed the uptown strore a year later. Sears left in 1976 for the green pastures of Eastland. Montaldo's went bankrupt. Dare I say Mr McColl had nothing to do with any of those things.

He's not perfect by any means, but he has done far more for uptown Charlotte than John Belk who moved his company's offices out to Tyvola, abandoning uptown altogether. Or First Union which demolished two of the city's most distinguished buildings: the Masonic Temple in 1985 (now home to a Chick-fil-a stand at Wachovia Plaza) and the Federal Reserve Bank in 1997. First Citizens leveled the First National Building in 1981. Cornerstone Properties (the real estate arm of Mass Mutual) pulverized Jack Wood Ltd and Film Row for a surface parking lot in 1998. Tell me again how bad McColl was in "sterilizing" uptown?

Make Mr McColl a hero? Yeah, maybe. Dale (#3), God rest his soul, didn't create 13,000 jobs for Charlotte, nor did he build the largest bank franchise in the United States. He was a good driver, though.

[monsoon]

McColl is responsible for destroying 3 corners of the square, the heart of Charlotte, by removing removing historic and street level retail and replacing it by lifeless monuments.

I would counter that when Belk gave the land to McColl, he turned around and demolished not only Belk but an entire downtown block of street level stores and replaced it with a lifeless plaza and impressive but dead (at street level) tower. The ground floor of that tower is nothing but a room for elevators. Another square block was turned into a large parking lot and garage.

His prior monument, the NCNB plaza, did an even better job of destroying street live by lining two sides of the square with lifeless blue glass and became the center of the Overstreet Mall. Which BTW, the best access when built was by automobile into the parking deck. Finding an entrance from the sidewalk was almost impossible. They have gone back and tried to fix some of this.

And I won't even get into the tragedy of what happened on the 3rd corner of the square with the destruction of the Independence Bldg which was replaced by another lifeless building and that Mariott. They finally went back recently and knocked a few holes in the walls of this to give better access to the street.

The transit center was controversial and was seen by some in the community to remove "undesirables" from the square. Read poor black people. The new garage concentrated them out of sight away from the square.

The population of the downtown area actually fell from 1990 to 2000 census.

• 2000 - 6327

• 1990 - 6370

I don't have any official info on the 1980 numbers but it looks as if it also fell during McColls first decade as CEO based on your data.

Sure McColl isn't responsible for the all of the downtown's decline, but he sure did his darndest to destroy the streetlife on the square in the 1980s and 1990s on what he did on 3 corners of it (The Charlotte city council destroyed the 4th corner.) and by moving all of the transit riders off the streets.

[Miesian Corners]

Belk was already planning to close the uptown store. I'm happy with what we got. And since I work and lived uptown for years, I'd hardly call it lifeless. Just had dinner at Sonoma last weekend (good food). I'm also happy to have the Blumenthal Center. Not sure how you program a performing arts space to have street life when it's dark. Perhaps you can enlighten me. As for the lobby, the Ben Long frescoes are tourist attractions, themselves.

McColl didn't implode the Independence Building. A private developer did. And while I don't exactly love Independence Center, the Marriott was a welcome addition to uptown.

The Transit Center. Ask anyone who uses CATS and they'll tell you they love it. Was it a motive to move black folks off the Square, no. Was there motive to move lines of busses and confusing connections off the Square? Yes.

Population. What American city didn't lose inner city population between 1945 and 1980? Atlanta, Birmingham, Cleveland, Buffalo, Miami, Tampa, Jacksonville, Washington, DC, Baltimore, Richmond, Indianapolis, Columbus...all lost population. It's called the suburbinization of America. White flight. Remember Levittown, Long Island? And yes, uptown did lose population between 1990 and 2000. Earle Village was demolished to make way for the First Ward development between 1996 and 2000. There are now 700 more residents in First Ward than there were when it was a tragic, crime-ridden public housing project. I'll add that it's generating quite a bit more in tax revenue than it did as a Charlotte Housing Authority ghetto ($0).

Architecture. To hold him responsible for 1970s architecture is plain silly. Every American city that got skyscrapers in the 1960s and 70s got the same thing. Charlotte is not stand-alone on that one. New York, in particular has more International Style glass boxes with nothing at street level than any other city I've ever been to. Yet, it still works. (And for the record, my favorite modern building is a glass box, Lever House on Park Ave in Manhattan is pure poetry.)

I'll not argue with you anymore. I lived on and off uptown from 1988 to 2004. I talked with Mr McColl numerous times and heard his story first-hand on how his visits to Europe gave him vision and finally made him understand urban planning. He realized people, not buildings make for great cities and he did something about it. To demonize him for mistakes made by every city in the USA is unfair.

[monsoon]

I wasn't trying to argue. Everyone is entitled to their opinion of McColl and I gave mine and I respect that you have too.

[rockhilljames]

Miesian I think you make some good points. Charlotte would be much worse off if without Hugh.

[skysdalimit]

I want to make sweet love to McColl right now...

erm...

Well, he certainly was a great man, it would be awesome if he ran for mayor. I definitely support him, and you can tell he really loves this city.

[monsoon]

..... One method that many cities seem to use to "direct traffic" is large tax breaks for companies to encourage them to move to the CBD.  However this would probably be way to controversial for Charlotte - plus the city/country would probably have to ante up the same deal for the existing CBD big boys wach, bofa and duke.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The other municipalities in the county would certainly fight any proposals such as this if it involved county money. They don't like to collect money that will be turned over to Charlotte's exclusive control. The NC Legislature would almost certainly side with the towns over Charlotte if it ever came to that.

[nyxmike]

On the Charlotte.com forums, someone who says they work for BOA claims that the company is going to leave Charlotte for NY - I thought I would bring it up since I remember hearing rumors about it earlier. I have a hard time believing it though - that would mean a lot of vacant buildings, and little if any new office building construction..

[atlrvr]

On the Charlotte.com forums, someone who says they work for BOA claims that the company is going to leave Charlotte for NY - I thought I would bring it up since I remember hearing rumors about it earlier. I have a hard time believing it though - that would mean a lot of vacant buildings, and little if any new office building construction..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Probably someone not even from Charlotte trying to stir up trouble....but rumors always are swirling. A consultant who was working with Wachovia told me a couple months ago that there was a management rumor-mill that Chase Manhattan was going to move it's HQ to Charlotte.

Banks aren't stupid, they locate where it makes most sense, and as long as BofA is a deposit heavy, branch banking bank, it makes most sense for them to have most of their business lines in Charlotte, and their investment banking in NY.

[nyxmike]

Probably someone not even from Charlotte trying to stir up trouble....but rumors always are swirling.  A consultant who was working with Wachovia told me a couple months ago that there was a management rumor-mill that Chase Manhattan was going to move it's HQ to Charlotte.

Banks aren't stupid, they locate where it makes most sense, and as long as BofA is a deposit heavy, branch banking bank, it makes most sense for them to have most of their business lines in Charlotte, and their investment banking in NY.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for clearing that up - they said they saw the "internal plan" - it had me worried for a little bit. I just had a hard time believing they would move since they just built a new trading floor, signed a deal with the Panther Stadium to have it named BOA Stadium, and have plans for another tower - by the way, do you know what happened with those plans? Are they waiting for another major tenant?

I'm suprised more banks haven't moved some of their offices to Charlotte yet..

[hueion39]

A consultant who was working with Wachovia told me a couple months ago that there was a management rumor-mill that Chase Manhattan was going to move it's HQ to Charlotte.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I like that rumor...

I wish BB&T would make the move to Charlotte too.

[SmellyCat]

The truth is, they have already moved a surprisingly large number of bankers to NYC. Some jobs in global banking will continue to leave, but MOST of the corporate bank and weath management positions, and just about all of their support operations will stay put in Charlotte.

I know a few people who have been told they will eventually be asked to move, who do not want to go. They are seeking jobs with Wachovia or other firms so they can stay here.

I'm not too worried about it. They've barely begun to absorb all the Fleet people...no doubt, many of those employees will eventually be moved down here.

[Miesian Corners]

EDIT: it was a pointless post.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wish I could learn that lesson, App. Instead I just rant on...

[Downtowner]

I think it would be nice if Charlotte Could build something like Liberty Place.That would be great for Charlotte.

[ncguy06]

Is the fact that Wachovia's HQ's are in Charlotte a reason why they probably wouldnt move, I mean isn't Wachovia sort of their competition? Don't they wan't to be close to their competition?

[RiverwoodCLT]

They can operate down in here in Charlotte a lot cheaper than NYC. They have operations all over this country, Dallas, TX, SF.Ca, NYC, Boston, Atanta, Houston,

and more. They are not going to put all their business units in one city. I read they are building a new building in NYC to get all it NYC employees in one building.

It make sense to have a big business present in NYC for BOA.

Not all big companies want to be in NYC.

How about Wilmington, Delware, how many corporations are HQ there with only a post office box?

It is cheaper to operate in in Charlotte under NC banking laws. That is how they

were able to expand like they have.

[Lady Celeste]

Question:

What part of Charlotte is TIAA-CREF located?

[A2]

Question:

What part of Charlotte is TIAA-CREF located?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

University city. It is across from the IBM &CIC (Wachovia's Customer Information Center) complex on WT Harris. Consequently CIC is the second largest office structure in the US outside of the pentagon. I used to work at CIC for a year, and we used to call it the compound before our office moved uptown.CIC was ridiculous. I remember the first few weeks I worked there, I kept getting lost in the place and could not find my way back to my desk. Talk about embarassing.

BTW, TIAA-CREFF's place is quite large and spread out too. Smelly Cat can be a bit more insightful on that bldg since he know it well, right Smelly???

A2

[SmellyCat]

BTW, TIAA-CREFF's place is quite large and spread out too. Smelly Cat can be a bit more insightful on that bldg since he know it well, right Smelly???

A2

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ALL too well A2, you are correct. Heck, I just about live there Yeah, it is a huge corporate campus with about a million sq. ft. I think, and it sits on 10 acres. One of its coolest features is a waterscape that is supposed to resemble a microcosm of North Carolina's Piedmont, beaches and mountains. I know they used to give formal tours of it.

It's a great building, the only problem with it is...it's location 12 miles from Uptown! They should have built a huge scraper in the CBD <sigh>

[MZT]

Wachovia University will be on the northeast transit corridor, however. Who knows, maybe it will be another factor in seeing it is extended at least that far.

[monsoon]

University city. It is across from the  IBM &CIC (Wachovia's Customer Information Center) complex on WT Harris. Consequently CIC is the second largest office structure in the US outside of the pentagon.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you sure? I believe I have heard the former IBM complex was 2.5 million sq/ft. That is 2.5x the size of the CIC

[monsoon]

It does look substantially bigger to me. CIC on top. Old IBM complex on bottom.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

Is the IBM complex solid offices?

[monsoon]

I don't know. When it was built it was a research & development facility for IBM which once had 8000 employees there.

It's known as the Meridian Exchange now. IBM sold the place to them in 1998. Meridian recently leased a 300,000 sq/ft section to Hewitt corporation which will be relocating up to 1000 employess from the downtown TransAmerica building to the facility on Harris Blvd. This section was recently converted to Class A office space.

IBM still leases the two E shaped buildings, they are 6 stories tall which really can't be seen from the photo.

Strayer University is located there in the upper part of the right most building.

The 1/4 circle shaped building is probably the largest cafeteria in the entire county. It has a two story curved glass wall comprised of single hugely expensive glass panels.

I'm not sure who else is there, but Meridian is in the process of upgrading much of the space to class A status and it agressively going after business in the downtown area to convince them to move to Harris Blvd. They seem to be having some success at it.