New Ideas For Tallahassee Transportation

[seminole]

I think that eventually, the city and county (in cooperation with the educational institutions) should explore the possibility of an aboveground monorail. I agree that Tallahassee doesn't have a large population, but it does have two unique problems - relatively narrow streets and no expressways. Placing more buses on already strained roadways will only exacerbate an already limited roadway problem.

Tallahasse is a more appealing city because of its trees/hills and the best views of the city are not at the roadway level but above ground - more people are willing to travel via mass transit if the ride is pleasant and scenic. Also, a monorail will probably be more attractive to businesses looking to relocate or expand into this area because it will actual help bring this city into the 21st Century. I can't think of any better way to attract corporate headquarters to an educational hub such as Tallahassee.

For goodness sakes - let's put some greenery along Tennessee and Monroe streets to soften the grayness as a result of asphalt and concrete. Let's add more height to downtown so that we can accumulate the critical mass necessary to support a monorail transit system. Let's encourage FSU to revisit the University Park concept near Innovation Park by developing a second campus for it's expansion, it's also a good area to place a mega parking garage (with student/faculty entertainment and eateries) and encourage its students and faculty to use the monorail to transit between the campuses. Of course, FAMU and TCC should partake in this as wells. The University Park will create the critical mass necessary to attract high tech corporations. Wink, Wink!

[stjoe]

I think that eventually, the city and county (in cooperation with the educational institutions) should explore the possibility of an aboveground monorail.  I agree that Tallahassee doesn't have a large population, but it does have two unique problems - relatively narrow streets and no expressways.  Placing more buses on already strained roadways will only exacerbate an already limited roadway problem.

Tallahasse is a more appealing city because of its trees/hills and the best views of the city are not at the roadway level but above ground - more people are willing to travel via mass transit if the ride is pleasant and scenic.  Also, a monorail will probably be more attractive to businesses looking to relocate or expand into this area because it will actual help bring this city into the 21st Century.  I can't think of any better way to attract corporate headquarters to an educational hub such as Tallahassee.

For goodness sakes - let's put some greenery along Tennessee and Monroe streets to soften the grayness as a result of asphalt and concrete.  Let's add more height to downtown so that we can accumulate the critical mass necessary to support a monorail transit system.  Let's encourage FSU to revisit the University Park concept near Innovation Park by developing a second campus for it's expansion, it's also a good area to place a mega parking garage (with student/faculty entertainment and eateries) and encourage its students and faculty to use the monorail to transit between the campuses.  Of course, FAMU and TCC should partake in this as wells.  The University Park will create the critical mass necessary to attract high tech corporations.  Wink, Wink!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree about Tenn and Monroe.

University Park is an interesting situation. I have heard contradictory information on it. One says that FSU bailed because of the costs. The other that the COT killed it because they didn't want FSU to run the park. The later is the one I have heard the most.

University Park is likely dead I fear, hurts FSU and the COT.

Side note, TCC doesn't do ANY research. It is not in the community colleges mission statement so it doesn't make sense for them to 'partake' in a research park which was the intention of the University Park idea.

[Florida]

Welcome to UP Seminole!!! Great name btw!

I have to run... normally I'd make a few statements, but I agree with most of what you've written.

Im not sure the COT (City of Tallahassee) is to blame for the halting of the University Park. From what I remember the COT (City of Tallahassee) was in favor of the concept and even took a trip up to North Carolina State University to study their success. It may be the County that wasn't behind the idea, or it may be the fact that FSU now has a new President.

[stjoe]

" it may be the fact that FSU now has a new President. "

I know that is, at least, part of the reason. One of the reason I am no fan of TK. If it doesn't involve athletics, he doesn't care.

The COT, county, and FSU was in favor of it...but one or more than one of those groups were responsible for nixing it.

[Florida]

I don't think it was the city. While working there I know they spent alot of time and resources trying to pull this thing together. The mayor even began his Capital Economic Summits because of things like this and the downtown.

[seminole]

I agree about Tenn and Monroe.

University Park is an interesting situation.  I have heard contradictory information on it.  One says that FSU bailed because of the costs.  The other that the COT killed it because they didn't want FSU to run the park.  The later is the one I have heard the most.

University Park is likely dead I fear, hurts FSU and the COT.

Side note, TCC doesn't do ANY research.  It is not in the community colleges mission statement so it doesn't make sense for them to 'partake' in a research park which was the intention of the University Park idea.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi TaurenaJ and stjoe.

You may have figured out that I'm new to this board and still have problems accessing the forums - but things are getting better I hope. Stjoe, the reason you are hearing conflicting stories is because COT, Innovation Park (County owned), and FAMU all played a role in FSU's decision to drop its plans for a Unversity Research Park because FAMU and Innovation park did not want FSU to have the leadership role in running the Park.

FSU's decision was probably one of the most disheartening things (in addition to height restrictions downtown - go figure) that could ever happen in Tallahassee because the Park - without a doubt - would have sparked economic development in the southside. All four entities listed above solicited the Urban Land Institute (ULI) to provide guidance for developing the Park and it was ULI recommendation that FSU should take on the leadership role. After all, it is FSU who is landlocked and owns almost 700 acres inwhich to place most of the proposed 1500 acre Park. FSU should have proceeded with ULI's recommendation.

I know the TCC/Lively Tech are not research institutions but we must all respect the fact that TCC/Lively Tech have taken a proactive step in attracting high tech industry by offering semiconductor manufacturing degrees. Therefore, they should be a part of any concerted attempt by our local governments and universities to bring in new technologies because they deserve to be.

[Florida]

^ WHOA!!!! WOW!!!!! FIDDLE STICKS!!!!!

HOW BOUT THAT SEMINOLE!!!

I'm a fan! WELCOME WELCOME WELCOME! You are so right, so so so right! I can't say anything to add to that other than the fact that we still need to work at getting a Semiconductor-Ready site prepared. What we have to offer isn't enough in Southwood or Summit East. The Univeristy Park location would be King and a great boost for Tallahassee's South West.

[csmurphy8885]

Someone is going to fit into these forums.... welcome. the monorail idea sounds nice, what are realistic cost figures for an effective system... the track could earn some funding from apartment developments who were willing to contribute (which they could in turn use as a selling point for carless college students). i like it though even if city has to front the bill.

wow what a view that would be crusing through downtown and campus.... that might be the new thing to do for fun... ride the rail!

[cityboy05]

Yes we need to bring it back to the West! I never knew about that whole univeristy park thing. It sounds like this could really make a difference!

[stjoe]

Hi TaurenaJ and stjoe.

You may have figured out that I'm new to this board and still have problems accessing the forums - but things are getting better I hope.  Stjoe, the reason you are hearing conflicting stories is because COT, Innovation Park (County owned), and FAMU all played a role in FSU's decision to drop its plans for a Unversity Research Park because FAMU and Innovation park did not want FSU to have the leadership role in running the Park. 

FSU's decision was probably one of the most disheartening things (in addition to height restrictions downtown - go figure) that could ever happen in Tallahassee because the Park - without a doubt - would have sparked economic development in the southside.  All four entities listed above solicited the Urban Land Institute (ULI) to provide guidance for developing the Park and it was ULI recommendation that FSU should take on the leadership role. After all, it is FSU who is landlocked and owns almost 700 acres inwhich to place most of the proposed 1500 acre Park.  FSU should have proceeded with ULI's recommendation.

I know the TCC/Lively Tech are not research institutions but we must all respect the fact that TCC/Lively Tech have taken a proactive step in attracting high tech industry by offering semiconductor manufacturing degrees.  Therefore, they should be a part of any concerted attempt by our local governments and universities to bring in new technologies because they deserve to be.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here is an explanation I received...

"the "University Park" concept was conceived as a result of the multi-agency study that FSU participated in several years ago. The notion was to redirect not only our development, but that of FAMU and TCC as well, to the Southwest Campus and the surrounding areas. Unfortunately, that concept collapsed under it's own weight (and costs) and the lack of leadership to move towards implementation."

I think FSU feared the political fight for a leadership role and the cost of the project (projected hundreds of millions).

Much of that 700 acres FSU has is already in use and many of the open plots are odd shaped and not ideal for much. FSU is moving it's IM fields out there and the new Swim team facility. But it seems the idea of a nice 2nd campus or even better a research park is dead. The remaining 800 acres in the area is owned by the COT, County, and the state.

If years ago the four entites (as you mentioned) had any vision, a park would of been put in place with room for expansion. That would of put all high tech in one place (currently it is all spread out, even the Taxolog building is not in Innovation Park, what does that tell you?). That would of allowed critical mass for technology to be reached and perhaps make a dent. High tech is VERY tough for cities to attract these days, the competition is FIERCE. You need either a huge city with massive resources, state, incentives, a major research university with billions in it's endowment and massive research money to do much, a research park (say 2000 acres), and capitol venture money (there is not one in Tally. Gainesville has one or two), often all of the above.

Last I heard the idea of landing semiconductor was considered all but impossible. A degree offered by TCC is nice, but when you are competing with the Dukes and Stanfords of the worlds...that is some tough competition. St Joe did have some land certified for such a project, but that is like announce you are open to dating Cindy Crawford...nice, but we all knew that (at least in my case)

[Florida]

So you're telling us Gainesville has two of these 2000+ acre research parks?

[stjoe]

So you're telling us Gainesville has two of these 2000+ acre research parks?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am telling you that Gainesvill has

*An AAU research university. Tally has none

*Top 25 Public University. Neither FAMU or FSU are in the top 50.

*Capitol Venture Company. Gainesville 1 or 2. Tally none.

*Massive Resources. UF just has a LOT more money than FSU and FAMU (about twice the endowment size of FAMU and FSU and twice the size in research money). There College of Medicine alone is a difference maker.

and truthfully, UF isn't the competition. It is Austin, Madison, Raleigh, and now the I-4 Cooridor tech initiative. COT could make it happen, but it would take a unified effort, laser focus, and some luck.

[Florida]

Sounds like they've got alot going for them... One question whats a Capitol Venture company? Is it the same as Venture Capital?

[Rock2uf]

^ "I am telling you that Gainesvill has

*An AAU research university. Tally has none

*Top 25 Public University. Neither FAMU or FSU are in the top 50.

*Capitol Venture Company. Gainesville 1 or 2. Tally none.

*Massive Resources. UF just has a LOT more money than FSU and FAMU (about twice the endowment size of FAMU and FSU and twice the size in research money). There College of Medicine alone is a difference maker.

and truthfully, UF isn't the competition."

This type of statement has to break some FSU grad's hearts. stjoe brought it up. I just have to repeat it. I really have nothing but love, though. B)

[Florida]

Well its good to see Gainesville has so much going for it. Public university ratings change, our medical school is new, and research money can be won so all hope is not lost.

[stjoe]

Well its good to see Gainesville has so much going for it. Public university ratings change, our medical school is new, and research money can be won so all hope is not lost.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"COT could make it happen, but it would take a unified effort, laser focus, and some luck. "

Agreed, I said above...it could happen, but it takes more than hope to do it. The players in Tally would need to be a unified front in the appropriate direction (this is the COT biggest issue) to attract high tech.

[Florida]

Where do we start with our unity? What step could we take today to become more unified?

[stjoe]

Where do we start with our unity? What step could we take today to become more unified?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wish I knew. There is a good deal of animosity in COT politics hard to get past that. How do you get an FSU president to make that a priority instead of athletics? How do you get a council that has historical been considered to be anti business to follow the lead of the Austins/Ralieghs/Madison, Wis of the world?

How do you determine who runs this? The current Innovation Park (which is only a small version of what is needed) is run by a committee that is basically considered by all parties to be a failure. They were supposed to attract Tech and have done little more than collect rent. Often there is talk that for example, TCC should have equal say to FSU, same with FAMU. That is nice in a vacuum, but it has a few issues. First, if everyone is in charge...nobody is. IE you need one chief. Also, who has experience with research? FSU and FAMU. FSU with $180 Million in annual $$$, FAMU at $60 Million. If you suggest FSU many parites get mad and claim FSU is "taking over". If you suggest FAMU, you don't get warm fuzzies due to it's enron like accounting/management issues that are regular far in the local/state papers. So the entities can't even agree on how to run it. I would bet we couldn't even come to an agreement on that...let alone get these groups to agree on something.

Then there is, how to pay for it? I literally heard nothing about how University Park was supposed to be paid for. You got the vibe that FSU was to pay for it all and that is one reason FSU backed off, but that is speculation. Of course, you could also speculate that FSU would of paid for it, but not with the same leadership situation there were in at Innovation Park and they knew that is all the others would agree to. Who knows.

I have seen FSU talk and the city talk (not much at all from FAMU), but I don't see a leader anywhere or a consistant focused effort. This is not something you can casually be involved with and be successful.

If I were mayor...and I never will be...I would get St Joe to donate 2,000-4,000 acres in Leon County (Southside) to a tech effort (FYI, this is because Innovation Park doesn't have enough open land IMHO). I would have the govt. provide tax breaks to all tech firms that moved out there and actively recruit them to. I would assist FSU, FAMU, (and TCC where it made sense) in being able to focus their efforts on tech (and not BS like rezoning issues). I would have all parties contribute as much as they can to the creation of this park and likely base the committee that runs it on that. IE, If you put up $100 Million and everyone else $25 Million, you have 4 times the votes. Short of just saying FSU runs it, that is the most fair and more importantly, logical, way I can think of.

I want to be optimistic on all this, but I don't see a significant high tech movement happen in Tally....I would love to eat crow on this someday and be wrong.

[Florida]

For the sake of our future... I want you to eat crow too. We need to figure out a way to run a research park without the government being so tightly involved. This is where actual innovations should come into play. An model on a much smaller scale would be Summit East. Rick Kearney has been able to recruit tenants to his growing park without government involvement, and his concept is a success in the making. Government sometimes discourages creativity, this could possibly be the issue.

[stjoe]

For the sake of our future... I want you to eat crow too. We need to figure out a way to run a research park without the government being so tightly involved. This is where actual innovations should come into play. An model on a much smaller scale would be Summit East. Rick Kearney has been able to recruit tenants to his growing park without government involvement, and his concept is a success in the making. Government sometimes discourages creativity, this could possibly be the issue.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I totally agree. But I also know research universities are a lynch pin for high tech. Again, this is such a tough issue for the COT.

[Florida]

Why do you think it is so difficult to impliment the ideas gathered from Austin, Madison, Raleigh?

[stjoe]

Why do you think it is so difficult to impliment the ideas gathered from Austin, Madison, Raleigh?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My guesses. The universities at those places are much much wealther than those in Tally, thus more investment money.

Maybe more importantly, I believe the steps those town took to get there run counter to the political idealology of Tally politiicans. IE, they went to those places...know what must be done, but just don't have it in them to emulate that.

I also believe they are very hung up on moving forward with anything involving FAMU and FSU because they want to make things equal and this is just a non player. Innovation Park (as mentioned) and the equally shared College of Eng. at FAMU/FSU are example A and B. Both are projects that should be successful, but simply haven't been due to this 50/50 leadership scheme. Controversial comments, but accurate.

[Florida]

I actually believe you've got a good point. I think because this idea was the brain child of FSU this should be an FSU park led by FSU. But it has to be built with FSU money or money FSU has lobbied for. FSU is good at this money raising.

FAMU may want to go in a totally different direction since each school is at different stages in growth. We may need to rethink our approach to these 50/50 relationships. Like you I see the College of Engineering, and Challenger Learning Center as under performers. But I'm on the outside looking in.

[csmurphy8885]

i would like to see famu utilize tha land stretch from campus to orange and making thier own little office park that might help to provide a school to job track in anything famu could support. that would help famu get thier feet into some solid shoes- provided they keep good records of what everyone is doing....

How could the airconditioning compressor jobs be utilized by both colleges evenly outside of the engenerring

[Florida]

I believe they have planned for that piece of land on the corner of Wannish and Orange, to move their DRS High School to that property. This would free up space on campus for a new building.