>> Providence South Neighborhoods

[Sleek89]

It's always about drugs. You must be mighty slow or naive and gullible, which makes sense since your only 16. Your friends mean a lot to you. You have to understand that just because someone is your friend dosen't mean that their not doing something wrong.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well seeing that he actually told me why, and it has nothing to do with drugs...and I know this because he would tell me if it was drugs or not.

And yesterday a 14 year old kid was killed because he owed 10 bucks for a hair braiding. I think it was 9 people got shot in the last 7 days and 2 were killed.

And im 16, not 10, so gullible or slow shouldent really be brought up.

[Lova]

I've spent a lot of time in South P over the last 20 years. I've lived on Elmwood Ave and currently work on Broad.

It's dramatically better than it was during the 80s. Welfare reform, economic growth, realestate boom, influx of ambitious immigrants, and better policing have all conspired to improve the area like night and day.

Crazy, stupid crap still goes down but not so much now. I've had a rock fight with little kids from Wiggin Village while I'm trying to take out the garbage. We once had a tenant call during the winter to complain it was cold. Turned out the furnace was stolen! Not kidding. I've had apartments stripped of all copper pipes and wires. I've had to set boobytraps to deter invasion. Twice found bodies. Blood sprayed all over bathroom walls from people shooting up. I've eaten lunch on a porch while having a nice conversation with the drug dealers across the street between deals. Seen a lady walk down the middle of the st holding a pistol behind her back. Some of this still happens, I still hear gun shots every summer, but it's much quieter now. We dont have the block party around Wiggin Village anymore, for example.

I think this town's most dangerous st is Pleasant St on the East Side. Those apts should be razed and send the owners the bill.

I think that Broad St will become one of the coolest zones in town.

[TheAnk]

Need I say more? Well put, Lova.. That stuff, thats what happens in South Providence when you get OFF the main streets.. Main streets are always relatively safe because of the "Recchia People Around Theory".. I agree completely.. Its when you drive down the side streets that you get a true feel for the hood... I drive all over Prov all the time.. I just don't feel South Prov.. (Just to clarify, when I say South Prov I mean the "South Side", which is Elmwood, South Prov, and West End)..

Regarding Ruchele's comment on race in South Prov.. How did you get that from Frankie's post?? Where did this "quality of life by race" thing come from? That was random.. He said Jewish people, which isn't a race, first of all, its a religion.. Second of all, he said he went to a bar and hung with a "very friendly crowd" that was "so well diversified."

Hues are irrelevant.. And they were irrelevant in this post until you brought them up in a negative connotation.. Just saying that white people are somewhere isn't racism..

Twisting what Frankie said around, and you have your agenda that you wanted... That IS racism, reversed..

[eltron]

Need I say more? Well put, Lova.. That stuff, thats what happens in South Providence when you get OFF the main streets.. Main streets are always relatively safe because of the "Recchia People Around Theory".. I agree completely.. Its when you drive down the side streets that you get a true feel for the hood... I drive all over Prov all the time.. I just don't feel South Prov.. (Just to clarify, when I say South Prov I mean the "South Side", which is Elmwood, South Prov, and West End)..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Apparantly, its all perception. I tend to percieve Olneyville and the Hartford areas as being significantly worse neighborhoods than certainly Elmwood or the West End.

But I suggest you check out Princeton Avenue, Mawney Street, Whitmarsh, Congress, Melrose, Adelaide, Upper Pine, and others. Spectacular architecture - nice residents, good streets to live on.

Most of these side streets consist of owner-occupied houses that have nothing to do with affordable housing.

I suggest you get out of your car and walk around Princeton or Adelaide Ave one day...I doubt the word "horrific," as you used in your first response under this thread, will come to mind.

[eltron]

Regarding Ruchele's comment on race in South Prov.. How did you get that from Frankie's post?? Where did this "quality of life by race" thing come from? That was random.. He said Jewish people, which isn't a race, first of all, its a religion.. Second of all, he said he went to a bar and hung with a "very friendly crowd" that was "so well diversified."

Hues are irrelevant.. And they were irrelevant in this post until you brought them up in a negative connotation.. Just saying that white people are somewhere isn't racism..

Twisting what Frankie said around, and you have your agenda that you wanted... That IS racism, reversed..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have to agree with you on this comment...I read Frankie's post completely differently and more positive than Ruchele did. I certainly didn't think Frankie was remotely racist in his post.

[TheAnk]

Apparantly, its all perception. I tend to percieve Olneyville and the Hartford areas as being significantly worse neighborhoods than certainly Elmwood or the West End.

I suggest you get out of your car and walk around Princeton or Adelaide Ave one day...I doubt the word "horrific," as you used in your first response under this thread, will come to mind.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Manton Ave by the flea market and Hartford Ave by the projects is very, very bad... Horrific.. And always will be.. There has been no changes there either.. I live on Atwells Ave, which is actually Mt Pleasant/Onleyville line.. I should have clarified that..

There are some nice streets in Elmwood, great period victorians that are owner occs, no question.. Amazing houses.. Its just that the blight outweighs those about 10 fold..

Get out of my car and WALK?? You crazy!!! Remember the baby, with the UZI?? Lova's post?

[eltron]

Manton Ave by the flea market and Hartford Ave by the projects is very, very bad... Horrific.. And always will be.. There has been no changes there either.. I live on Atwells Ave, which is actually Mt Pleasant/Onleyville line.. I should have clarified that..

There are some nice streets in Elmwood, great period victorians that are owner occs, no question.. Amazing houses.. Its just that the blight outweighs those about 10 fold..

Get out of my car and WALK?? You crazy!!! Remember the baby, with the UZI?? Lova's post?   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Eh, you don't have to worry about the baby...the UZI's not loaded, and the crack heads down here are extremely friendly....a little itchy and wobbly, but friendly.

the hookers on the other hand, they can get a little testy.

[ruchele]

I have to agree with you on this comment...I read Frankie's post completely differently and more positive than Ruchele did. I certainly didn't think Frankie was remotely racist in his post.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe I did read his post wrong- but it read to me that he was saying the neighborhood is nicer than you might realize because there are (or were) Jewish people, a church with 80% white people, college students (which seems like a little bit of a euphemism), and a "diversified" bar. If the race (ethnicity, whatever you call it) wasn't the point of the first few sentences of his post, then I definately misread. Maybe he can clarify what he was actually trying to say in those first few sentences of his post (or maybe he shouldn't bother and we should just let this topic die). I'm certainly not screaming "Racist!" at Frankie, but I think there is much racial tension and undertones to the "Renaissance" issue throughout the city, especially in SP, and we should be clear to ourselves and others about what we are really trying to say.

[Garris]

Maybe I did read his post wrong-  but it read to me that he was saying the neighborhood is nicer than you might realize because there are (or were) Jewish people, a church with 80% white people, college students (which seems like a little bit of a euphemism), and a "diversified" bar.  If the race (ethnicity, whatever you call it) wasn't the point of the first few sentences of his post, then I definately misread. Maybe he can clarify what he was actually trying to say in those first few sentences of his post (or maybe he shouldn't bother and we should just let this topic die). I'm certainly not screaming "Racist!" at Frankie, but I think there is much racial tension and undertones to the "Renaissance" issue throughout the city, especially in SP, and we should be clear to ourselves and others about what we are really trying to say.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought was he was trying to do was to agree with other posters in saying that S. Prov was not as bad as people thought and that it is vibrant, active, and diverse... Granted, I needed to reread the sentences a couple of times to get it...

- Garris

PS: Regarding the Jewish role in South Providence, the Jewish community was initially, around the turn of the 20th century, focused in South Prov and Smith Hill before recentering on the East Side. Temple Beth-El, the large Reform synagogue in RI now located in its landmark building on Orchard St on the East Side, was originally on Broad Ave in South Prov. The original beautiful building is still there, now the home of the small Congregation Shaare Zadek, which is an active Orthodox congregation as far as I know. Another remnant of the original Jewish community in Smith Hill is the small Congregation Sons of Jacob, on Douglas Ave. This orthodox congregation is still active as well, I believe.

The community is now mostly centered on the East Side, where many of the congregations, schools, and community organizations are now located (the JCC, the Alpern Schecter School, Prov Hebrew Day, etc). The orthodox community in particular is centered around Hope Village and Oak Hill. With the increase in home prices in the East Side, the community is starting to scatter somewhat. There is a new transdenominational Jewish Day School that is being planned, and where to place the new campus (East Side vs elsewhere cheaper, like East Prov) is an active and important conversation now happening in the community that could influence much geographically in the future.

[glassandsteel]

Bleh.

[Recchia]

Bleh.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

C'mon, speak your mind.

[Frankie811]

C'mon, speak your mind.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My goodness, I certainly didn't intend to cause problem with my previous post. And yes, I was trying to point out positive things about SP. I have no problem driving through the area, but there are some neighborhoods in other cities I wouldn't, like Hartford. There are so many positive things going on city-wide in our communities that most of us never hear of, but I believe that's what seperates us from other cities, especially in low-income neighborhoods. Would anyone here drive or walk around some of the crime infested neighborhoods in Hartford, day or night? How about Bridgeport, CT?

[Frankie811]

I believe TheAnk speaks the truth, but many of us don't want to hear the truth. Some like to sugar coat the realities of life. There is one area that I don't like to drive by, and that's the corners of Point St & Prairie Ave and around 50/60 Prairie Ave. Dangerous drug invested area.

[Lova]

"But I suggest you check out Princeton Avenue, Mawney Street, Whitmarsh, Congress, Melrose, Adelaide, Upper Pine, and others. Spectacular architecture - nice residents, good streets to live on."

I assure you that in the mid-late 80s, Princeton, Mawney, and Congress were not the nice places they are now. My father owned apt houses on all three. I raked up the garbage piled in a driveway and found syringes, bullet casings, a hatchet.... The house next door, I'd watch people ring the door bell and then a girl on second drop a bag out the window, all day long. I was painting an apt when I heard people downstairs, went down and two old guys were shooting up in a bathroom. "Just give us a minute and we'll be gone!" one pleaded, a needle sticking out of his arm. I'd find those little plastic crack vials everywhere. I'd fill some with plaster chips and put them out on the sidewalk. People would walk by, stop dead and freak, grab them and run! HA HA! You can hold a flame to plaster all day and never run out!

I agree that Manton and Olneyville are very tough. But Pleasant is such a raging anomoly. Drive down the st on a hot summer evening.

[Frankie811]

C'mon, speak your mind.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I love to see positive things going on/up in SP. Take the construction of the new Meeting St School at Eddy St & Thurbers Ave for example. This will probably foster new development in the community, or at the least, stop further decay. Down the road a piece is the new Met School being built which hopefully will also enhance the area. And of course CCRI is just around the corner from the met. Educational venues are most welcome in the area. Education is of course the key to escape the grips of poverty. There are so many social service agencies to address residents concerns with the burdens of everyday life. I do believe however that more needs to be done to help our young adults deal with issues that affect them, like violence, drugs, sex education and school dropout.

[eltron]

"But I suggest you check out Princeton Avenue, Mawney Street, Whitmarsh, Congress, Melrose, Adelaide, Upper Pine, and others. Spectacular architecture - nice residents, good streets to live on."

I assure you that in the mid-late 80s, Princeton, Mawney, and Congress were not the nice places they are now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, I am quite aware of how bad it was. But the issue was the condition now, not the late 80's. There are still bad streets, but overall the entire southside (and west end) is vastly improved...even over the past 2 years.

[gregw]

I agree that Manton and Olneyville are very tough. But Pleasant is such a raging anomoly. Drive down the st on a hot summer evening.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Pleasant between Hope and Camp is fine. It's the stretch between Camp and No Main that's rough. Like So Prov though the whole Camp St area is much much better than it used to be. The most noticeable improvement is the Camp/Cypress intersection sicne the opening of the police substation. Awful stuff still happens off Camp but I feel perfectly comfortable living in the area.

I think the toughest part of the city hands down is the Chad Brown projects. I personally would walk in any other part of the city during the daytime but not there.

[Frankie811]

Pleasant between Hope and Camp is fine. It's the stretch between Camp and No Main that's rough. Like So Prov though the whole Camp St area is much much better than it used to be. The most noticeable improvement is the Camp/Cypress intersection sicne the opening of the police substation. Awful stuff still happens off Camp but I feel perfectly comfortable living in the area.

I think the toughest part of the city hands down is the Chad Brown projects. I personally would walk in any other part of the city during the daytime but not there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Please read letters to the editor in today's journal, page C6 in the Metro section. I can't find it on projo.com Talk about timing!

[TheAnk]

I believe TheAnk speaks the truth, but many of us don't want to hear the truth. Some like to sugar coat the realities of life. There is one area that I don't like to drive by, and that's the corners of Point St & Prairie Ave and around 50/60 Prairie Ave. Dangerous drug invested area.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I didn't and don't mean to offend anyone. I just tell it like I see it. I personally get offended when people bring race into a conversation for no reason at all other than to preach their agenda... The topic was South Providence, not race in South Providence.. The mentality Ruchele has is that everything is tied to race.. I completely disagree.. Its family, education, and morality, of which all are colorblind...

[runturtlerun]

Please read letters to the editor in today's journal, page C6 in the Metro section. I can't find it on projo.com  Talk about timing!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow, what an amazing letter. I always find it hard to believe that despite the east side's reputation, it houses one of the worst neighborhoods in the city. I think that actually contributes to the hostility around there -- the extreme wealth side by side with poverty and the camp street dividing line.

[Frankie811]

Wow, what an amazing letter.  I always find it hard to believe that despite the east side's reputation, it houses one of the worst neighborhoods in the city.  I think that actually contributes to the hostility around there -- the extreme wealth side by side with poverty and the camp street dividing line.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, your exactlly right by saying Camp St is the diving line. But isn't it amazing, despite what that woman wrote, how the middle class side isn't more victimized. I real don't see any muggings, breakins or auto theft crimes occuring there.

[ruchele]

I personally get offended when people bring race into a conversation for no reason at all other than to preach their agenda... The topic was South Providence, not race in South Providence.. The mentality Ruchele has is that everything is tied to race.. I completely disagree.. Its family, education, and morality, of which all are colorblind...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Geez, I don't have an "agenda" to preach- and I didn't bring up the topic of race, all I did was note that it had been brought up by another poster (ok, so I was the first one to say the word "race," but I was not the first one to bring up the topic). And no, my "mentality" is not that everything is tied to race. But you can't ignore that there has been a good amount of racial tension surrounding revitalization efforts in practically every city in the country, and Providence is no different. My point is that people interested in development need to be aware that this is part of the equation. Maybe some readers are offended by the idea that they need to think about this- to me, it's just common sense, not an "agenda."

That said, I agree with Frankie and other posters that there is a lot of good stuff, and an interenting mix of people, in SP that many folks my be surprised by. I think that was Frankie's original point.

[Lova]

The Camp St zone is surreal. It is a very small zone yet survives in all its ghetto glory, surrounded by the wealthy east side. I suspect that, in the absence of a "self improvement movement" here, the City has no local energy to harness. No one wakes up and smells the coffee and changes the prevailing behavior.

I lived on the corner of Jenkins and Knowles for a few years. I never had any trouble, but the black residents were not nieghborly. They all but openly resented my being there. One time, a girl got locked out on her porch next door. Me and the guy across the street both went over and reached up, side by side, to catch her when she jumped. We caught her and put her down, and I'm like "hey alright" to the guy, who just turned away and was not comfortable with my pressence. I'm very friendly, but he couldnt deal with simple comraderie or even common civility.

I think that what Camp needs is to be invaded. It needs police enforcement and new property owners. The density of the prevailing culture needs to be dilluted, because it is evident the little culture there is not able to change by itself. But Pleasant St is all section 8 and owned by out of town investors. The properties cannot be turned over, and the St is ungovernable. It needs a hard drive from the City to punish the owners for the damage they do the the area.

[Frankie811]

I don't know who owns the Pleasant Ridge Apts, but the office is located at Camp & Evergreen Sts. As a matter of fact I believe the building was on fire the other night (116 Evergreen St).

[runturtlerun]

I think the apartments are owned by ABI, Ltd. I couldn