>> Providence South Neighborhoods

[TheAnk]

I can't find that letter online..

I forget which post it is in, perhaps Cotuit can help out.. Where I stated that the rest of Providence is catching up to the East Side, and the East Side is drastically overrated and prohibitively expensive, as Fox Point, Hope and Mt Hope sections are often subconsciously taken out of the equation...

Before I moved to Prov, the general consensus was live on the East Side, forget the "Rest of Providence".. I think that has changed

[runturtlerun]

I can't find that letter online.. 

Try this link ...?

http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:3Dri4...rovidence&hl=en

Re: the whole issue of race, I tend to think that it is very important to discuss. TheAnk is right that maybe it shouldn

[Lova]

I see race not as ethnicity but as culture. For example, I just got back from St Martin and Bermuda. Both islands have black majority populations but with sizable percentages of whites. But if you closed your eyes, you couldnt tell if the person you were speaking with is black or white, regardless of the office or situation. Everyone is proffessional, and there are no attitudes.

In the US, you can tell immediately. Blacks here live largely isolated geographically and culturally, and they themselves maintain this to their great disadvantage.

I have a friend who lives in Crown Heights, Brooklyn (remember the riot?) He complains that when he comes to Providence, the black kids here are more gangsta than the ones in CH. Because they are not in the ghetto, they cop a cartoon exageration of it.

Culture can be modified, if people are willing to invest the effort.

[Recchia]

I HATE the fact that race EVER has to be brought up. I wish we lived in a world where the color of your skin truly and absolutely had nothing to do with anything, no connotations, assumptions, nothing.

But unfortunately, that is not the case, so I guess race always has to be brought up. Will America ever get over the race obsession? I hope so.

[Frankie811]

I HATE the fact that race EVER has to be brought up.  I wish we lived in a world where the color of your skin truly and absolutely had nothing to do with anything, no connotations, assumptions, nothing.

But unfortunately, that is not the case, so I guess race always has to be brought up.  Will America ever get over the race obsession?  I hope so.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wish this topic was never bought up. We are starting to attach each other. We are likely to show up at the meet and scratch each others eyes out

[Recchia]

I wish this topic was never bought up. We are starting to attach each other. We are  likely to show up at the meet and scratch each others eyes out 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh no I didn't mean that against anyone in this forum, I just mean it about America in general.

BTW, I'm huntin UP shirts down at waterfire next week. I want that free drink...

[Garris]

I see race not as ethnicity but as culture. For example, I just got back from St Martin and Bermuda. Both islands have black majority populations but with sizable percentages of whites. But if you closed your eyes, you couldnt tell if the person you were speaking with is black or white, regardless of the office or situation. Everyone is proffessional, and there are no attitudes.

In the US, you can tell immediately. Blacks here live largely isolated geographically and culturally, and they themselves maintain this to their great disadvantage.

I have a friend who lives in Crown Heights, Brooklyn (remember the riot?) He complains that when he comes to Providence, the black kids here are more gangsta than the ones in CH. Because they are not in the ghetto, they cop a cartoon exageration of it.

Culture can be modified, if people are willing to invest the effort.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As we've sometimes discussed on this board, your point is one of the "third rails" of American culture. Witness the whole Bill Cosby controversy of late, with his criticism of black culture seeing achievement as "acting white." The impact of culture is not a discussion I think America is mature enough to have as yet.

Your point about the "ghettoness" of Providence is interesting. I knew someone in college, African American, from a pretty tough neighborhood in NYC who said he'd never seen areas scarier than ones in New Haven, which he too said were more "ghetto" than ones in NYC.

- Garris

[Frankie811]

Your point about the "ghettoness" of Providence is interesting.  I knew someone in college, African American, from a pretty tough neighborhood in NYC who said he'd never seen areas scarier than ones in New Haven, which he too said were more "ghetto" than ones in NYC.

- Garris

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have to agree with that assesment of New Haven after visiting there several years ago.

[TheAnk]

I agree with Lova.. In my opinion, there is no race, only culture..

Although, I disagree about residents not welcoming me to the 'hood.. My experience is much different.. I was and still am welcome among all the races there; black, hispanic, asian & white.. People are very neighborly..

[Frankie811]

http://www.projo.com/metro/content/projo_2...1.1d5cd508.html

[Frankie811]

http://www.pbn.com/contentmgr/showdetails.php/id/118553

[mr2448]

I have to agree with that assesment of New Haven after visiting there several years ago.

During the late 60's Providence's South Providence was burning, but New Haven was both burning and rioting. South Providence had been home to a large Irish-Jewish population. Redevelopment, Willet Ave Shopping Center, and an influx of blacks, who had been displaced from Lippett Hill(University Heights) created a new ghetto. New Haven's ghettos had been in place for decades. Winchester, Shelton, Goff were ghettos that were not matched in any other New England city. New Haven had the only curfew in New England that was enforced by National Guard. It was an eerie sight to see jeeps and other military vehicles patroling the streets of downtown New Haven. It did last only a week, but being cooped up on campus made you feel like a prisoner.

Mark

[runawayjim]

the reason i would think any mention of race comes into play in providence is the fact that the majority of people in the city are not white. when you break it down by neighborhood, the south side is predominately black and hispanic. this does not mean at all that it's automatically a more dangerous neighborhood. many of the hispanic immigrants want nothing more than to live their lives normally, go to work, come home, keep a clean house and yard and not be bothered.

in bridgeport, one of the "not so nice" neighborhoods is predominately brazilian. the brazilians can't stand the blacks because they give all minorities a bad name there. the people of the neighborhood just want to work and make a living and not be bothered, but becuase they happen to also be a minority, they end up being lumped together with the minorities causing problems in teh area. again, i am not saying that whites are angels and never cause problems.

but what frankie seemed to be saying is that there's a lot of diversity in south providence, and that doesn't make it a bad area. i didn't see it as meaning that because white people are there that it's not so bad. there's a church where most of the people don't live in the neighborhood, these people are obviously not afraid to come in to the area to attend services. there's the jewish community. and there's all the ethnic shops and restaurants. i think it's great that htere's such diversity. i have yet to really venture around south prov myself. i've been through it, both during the day and at night, but only on major arteries (like broad st and elmwood ave heading towards downtown).

i believe there are worse areas. i will not drive through the chad brown area at night ever, and i would rarely do it in daylight. the west end is not the best area as people like to think. most people seem to consider the west end just fed hill and the armory/broadway areas. how about manton, hartford, and silver lake? these parts of the city are not so nice and will not have any sort of revitalization happening anytime soon because they're cut off from most of the city.

one of the things i love about providence is the old houses, many of which are in the south side. they're absolutely beautiful. the relation to the downtown area, roger williams park, and the waterfront should be working as a huge benefit to south providence and i think we'll eventually see that help it. until then, people will continue to be afraid. it's like people in new haven (my mother included). it's a historical thing. you never drove through new haven at night without hearing her say "don't look at anyone" or "lock the doors and close the windows". i felt so trapped. but it's hardly what she thought. sure, it was bad in the 70's and 80's, but now it's completely different. i feel that way about providence. a lot of the people i know here are people who have lived around here their whole lives and are always like "don't go to south providence, it's very dangerous there". it's a historical thing. someone told me not to move to the armory district because of the crime there. but it's hardly as dangerous as other parts of the city (camp st, chad brown, silver lake).

to add to similar sentiment here... i would more than happily drive through south prov at night than most of hartford or bridgeport.

[HartfordTycoon]

to add to similar sentiment here... i would more than happily drive through south prov at night than most of hartford or bridgeport.

Maybe it's just me, but I just don't hear about all the innocent white kids who get shot or carjacked driving around South Providence or North Hartford or wherever you are talking about. Crime is personal the vast majority of the time. Poor people hurt other poor people, regardless of race, ethnicity, or country of origin. The only white people I ever hear of getting shot or bothered in Hartford were buying drugs or doing something else they shouldn't have been doing. Thus creating a larger drug market than already exist in our neighboorhods by attracting out of towners here and indroducing more drug money to the inner city. There is certainly a level of hysteria inducing ignorance created by fear of the unknown.

[runawayjim]

Maybe it's just me, but I just don't hear about all the innocent white kids who get shot or carjacked driving around South Providence or North Hartford or wherever you are talking about. Crime is personal the vast majority of the time. Poor people hurt other poor people, regardless of race, ethnicity, or country of origin. The only white people I ever hear of getting shot or bothered in Hartford were buying drugs or doing something else they shouldn't have been doing. Thus creating a larger drug market than already exist in our neighboorhods by attracting out of towners here and indroducing more drug money to the inner city. There is certainly a level of hysteria inducing ignorance created by fear of the unknown.

when you hear about "innocent" white kids getting shot, it's usually because they were doing something they shouldn't have been doing, yet their parents refuse to believe that their child wasn't an angel.

you are right, if you're involved with problematic people, you invite their problems into your own life. however, there are people who will cause problems if you look at them the "wrong way" (which is where my mother got the "don't look at anyone" thing). the only crime that comes into an otherwise law-abiding citizen's life is break-in/robbery/car theft/vandalism.

however, i do have on question. in the past few months, there was an attack on a group of college students by a larger group of HS students on the east side near hope HS that was reported to be completely random. thoughts?

[Frankie811]

however, i do have on question. in the past few months, there was an attack on a group of college students by a larger group of HS students on the east side near hope HS that was reported to be completely random. thoughts?

These young teens think that they can do whatever they want without getting caught. At will, no doubt. Hollywood says it's ok, as they continue to expose our young people to violence. Mom and dad are too busy with their lives to care. We reap what we sow.

[Garris]

however, i do have on question. in the past few months, there was an attack on a group of college students by a larger group of HS students on the east side near hope HS that was reported to be completely random. thoughts?

Certainly, college kids are felt to be good targets for crime by thieves who view them as vulnerable, walking cash registers... Now, place Brown University right next to Hope High School...

I do recall that there was a wave of attacks on Brown students by some Hope High students, and I don't know if it was "random" or theft related, but I think the police eventually caught the students involved.

Cotuit, do you know?

- Garris

[HartfordTycoon]

when you hear about "innocent" white kids getting shot, it's usually because they were doing something they shouldn't have been doing, yet their parents refuse to believe that their child wasn't an angel.

you are right, if you're involved with problematic people, you invite their problems into your own life. however, there are people who will cause problems if you look at them the "wrong way" (which is where my mother got the "don't look at anyone" thing). the only crime that comes into an otherwise law-abiding citizen's life is break-in/robbery/car theft/vandalism.

however, i do have on question. in the past few months, there was an attack on a group of college students by a larger group of HS students on the east side near hope HS that was reported to be completely random. thoughts?

I did read about that. That was quite senseless and sad. In no way do I mean that no one in the inner city hurts or attacks random victims occassionally. But the chances are pretty remote, even for suburbanites who spend a good amount of time in rougher areas. Just keep in mind that your actions can effect others attitudes toward you. If you are in a neighborhood looking scared and lost, then obviously that's not good. But even if you are lost and are cool headed and not looking at people like they are from another planet, you can ask people for directions and things like that. I have even been surprised and been guilty of stereotyping my own people, only to find out that the meanest looking guy in the world might be the nicest most helpful person you will ever encounter.

[runawayjim]

I did read about that. That was quite senseless and sad. In no way do I mean that no one in the inner city hurts or attacks random victims occassionally. But the chances are pretty remote, even for suburbanites who spend a good amount of time in rougher areas. Just keep in mind that your actions can effect others attitudes toward you. If you are in a neighborhood looking scared and lost, then obviously that's not good. But even if you are lost and are cool headed and not looking at people like they are from another planet, you can ask people for directions and things like that. I have even been surprised and been guilty of stereotyping my own people, only to find out that the meanest looking guy in the world might be the nicest most helpful person you will ever encounter.

it's best not to stereotype based on looks... but one action or one bad move will affect my opinion of someone so greatly that it will take a long time to turn that around, even if you are the nicest person... race doesn't matter.

looking scared in a "bad neighborhood" can make you seem racist. looking lost shouldn't (assuming you're truly lost). i knew a guy who was driving around DC and ended up in one of the nastiest parts of the city because he was lost. some random guy on the street stopped him and told him that he probably didn't want to head down the street he was going and gave him directions to where he was trying to get.

[Frankie811]

http://www.projo.com/news/content/projo_20...ie.86e7723.html

[mr2448]

http://www.projo.com/news/content/projo_20...ie.86e7723.html

Always difficult to lose an on going mom and pop business. I wish the business was sold as is. I hate the thought of losing another diner in Providence. I still have not gotten over losing the Silver Top Diner. The "Diner" Museum looks like it has been lost because of the inaction of the Harbor Museum. I think the reality is the the Harbor Museum will never happen because that property has too much value to it.

Maybe the building can be converted to an ESPN ZONE/HARD ROCK CAFE as a similar building in Baltimore's Inner Harbor is now used? In fact, while I kid about this, I think the Inner Harbor should be an excellent model for Providence's expanded waterfront. It is a great combination of business and tourist attractions.

Mark

[gregw]

Mark,

Struever Brothers Eccles and Rouse of Baltimore no less, who have done a lot of the Inner Harbor stuff, is redeveloping the building into a mixed use project incorporating Heritage Harbor. Construction is supposed to start this summer. It's going to be called South St. Station.

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=13145

http://www.sber.com/project_detail.asp?ProjectID=292

I think the reality is the the Harbor Museum will never happen because that property has too much value to it.

Maybe the building can be converted to an ESPN ZONE/HARD ROCK CAFE as a similar building in Baltimore's Inner Harbor is now used? In fact, while I kid about this, I think the Inner Harbor should be an excellent model for Providence's expanded waterfront. It is a great combination of business and tourist attractions.

Mark

[Cotuit]

More grant money coming for home improvements. Grants of up to $500 are available from the Southside Neighborhood Beautification Committee.

The Elmwood Foundation

[viper711]

I am from right outside Hartford, CT and have been to South Providence before. South Providence is a ghetto but it far from the worst ghetto in New England. Connecticut is definately home to New England's worst ghettos. Providence's ghetto is probably compared to Park St. area Hartford or Waterbury's ghetto.

If you want to see some truly scary area's in New England go to North End Hartford or really any area in Bridgeport. Me and some friends got lost there a couple times and we ran into crack heads and lots of obvious gang activity, prostitution, and drug dealing everywhere. While Connecticut has some of the wealthiest areas in America, there are also some areas that are also some truly violent and brutal areas.

[runawayjim]

I am from right outside Hartford, CT and have been to South Providence before. South Providence is a ghetto but it far from the worst ghetto in New England. Connecticut is definately home to New England's worst ghettos. Providence's ghetto is probably compared to Park St. area Hartford or Waterbury's ghetto.

If you want to see some truly scary area's in New England go to North End Hartford or really any area in Bridgeport. Me and some friends got lost there a couple times and we ran into crack heads and lots of obvious gang activity, prostitution, and drug dealing everywhere. While Connecticut has some of the wealthiest areas in America, there are also some areas that are also some truly violent and brutal areas.

bridgeport really depends on where you are... most of the southern and eastern parts of teh city are pretty bad, but the north and west (by fairfield, easton, and trumbull) aren't all that bad.

lots of cities in CT had the same problems RI had. they were mill towns and when the mills went out of business, things went downhill fast and many have yet to recover. willimantic, norwich, and waterbury (and most of the valley region of CT along with it) are good examples of that.