Tallahassee MSA

[Florida]

Tallahassee MSA!

[Florida]

Wakulla County, FL

Established March 11, 1843 (23rd county).The waters of the Gulf of Mexico moderate Wakulla County's climate, as breezes cool the air in the summer and provide warmth in the winter. Within the St. Marks National Wildlife Refuge, with its famous white lighthouse, and the adjacent Apalachicola National Forest, lies a natural paradise: crystal lakes, clear springs, dense woods, saltwater ponds, and marshes. Both preserves allow fresh and saltwater fishing.

Jefferson County, FL

Established January 20, 1827 (13th county). The county was named for Thomas Jefferson, president of the United States, who died on July 4 of the preceding year. Jefferson County is located in the heart of "the other Florida," the Florida of rolling hills and stately oaks draped in wispy Spanish moss. Situated in the state's Panhandle, it is the only county that extends from Georgia on the north to the Gulf of Mexico on the south. Known as the "Keystone County," it is approximately mid-way between Jacksonville, Florida's northern-most Atlantic port and Pensacola, one of her largest Gulf ports. Monticello, the county's seat of government, is just 23 miles east of Florida's capital city of Tallahassee, and is fast becoming one of that thriving city's favorite "bedroom communities."

Gadsden County, FL

Established June 24, 1823 (5th county). The county was named for James Gadsden (1788-1858), a native of Charleston, South Carolina and a diplomat who served as aide-de-camp to General Andrew Jackson during the 1818 campaign in Florida. Why the territorial council named the county for Gadsden is not known. He had been an associate of Jackson, however, and had been commissioned to negotiate with the Indians for their removal either to then remote peninsular Florida or completely out of the territory. Gadsden distinguished himself nationally for what is known now as the Gadsden Purchase, which occurred long after the naming of the Florida county. For a short time, until the creation of Leon County, Gadsden was the seat of territorial government.

Leon County, FL

Established December 29, 1824 (7th county). The county was named for Juan Ponce de Leon, discoverer and namer of Florida. Leon County is approximately 671 square miles, with a population of almost 250,000 people. As a political subdivision of the state, the county is guided by an elected seven-member Board of County Commissioners, the City of Tallahassee is the only city in Leon county. Incorporated 1825. Virtually every authority agrees that the name of the capital city of Florida is derived from a Creek Indian word meaning "old town." And an old town it is indeed, if one counts the residence of the Indians and the Spaniards. The first date known definitely is 1539, when DeSoto met here with the Apalachee tribes, who controlled the fields and streams. About 1633, the Spanish mission of San Luis was established and stood a few miles northwest of the present downtown Tallahassee.

Tallahassee was chosen for the capital of Florida on March 4, 1824 while Florida was still a territory. The town began to be occupied in 1825-1826 by people from Georgia, North Carolina and Virginia. Legend says the name and spelling were finally chosen by Octavia Walton, daughter of a territorial governor of Florida and granddaughter of a signer of the Declaration of Independence.

As of November 12, 2002 Leon County is governed by a Home Rule Charter.

[Florida]

County Seats

Leon - Tallahassee

Gadsden - Quincy

Jefferson - Monticello

Wakulla - Crawfordville

County Population Estimates

(U.S. Census 2004)

Leon ......... 243,867

Gadsden .... 46,107

Jefferson.... 14,502

Wakulla...... 27,179

Total MSA.... 331,655

[Florida]

Here's a piece from today's Tallahassee Democrat on regional cooperation:

A need for teamwork

A 2005 survey revealed that while 42 percent of respondents couldn't define regionalism, they do support collaborative efforts among each of the county governments. More than 77 percent of those interviewed thought the four counties should team up to become more competitive with larger cities.

"Nationally, people are recognizing this region is about to explode. ... And we all know we have infrastructure issues and communication challenges, health care concerns and not enough affordable housing. We want to focus on these things and at the same time let the business community know how they can benefit from these changes. We need to know what we need to be focused on so that we aren't marginalized."

[Florida]

Here's a map of The Capital MSA

[ironchapman]

Detailed description...I like it.

You seem to know your MSA!

[Florida]

thanks!... some would argue there isn't "much" to know.

[BHCav]

My dad lives in Thomasville. He and just about everyone he knows works in Tally. Thomas county will become part of the MSA shortly IMO, as well as Grady co. Thomasville is as much of a bedroom community as the counties that are officially in the MSA.

[Florida]

Is it possible to host a county from another state? If that were possible I'd think Thomasville would already be in the MSA.

[BHCav]

I believe it is. Look at Kansas City and St.Louis.

[gatoremt]

What is MSA?

[Florida]

Metropolitian Statistical Area: to be included in a community's MSA, over 30% (maybe its 50%) of another community's population must be gainfully employeed in the host city.

[poonther]

Is it possible to host a county from another state? If that were possible I'd think Thomasville would already be in the MSA.

Sure they can and tons of them do. Just to name a few MSA's in the Southeast that cross state lines: Columbus, GA (includes AL), Augusta, GA (includes SC), Chattanooga, TN (includes GA), and Charlotte, NC (includes SC.)

Based on how they calculate whether a county is in or not in an MSA, I'd predict that Tally would gain Grady County, GA (Cairo) before we'd gain Thomas County. Reason being that there is a higher population in Thomas making their percentage of those working in Tally to be more people and the fact that Thomas County does have a better home job base than Grady.

TJ what are latest pop. figures you have for Leon, Gadsden, Wakulla, and Jefferson? Do you have the UF BEBR figures for '05? I have the hardest time finding those figures. Thanks!

[seminole]

Sure they can and tons of them do. Just to name a few MSA's in the Southeast that cross state lines: Columbus, GA (includes AL), Augusta, GA (includes SC), Chattanooga, TN (includes GA), and Charlotte, NC (includes SC.)

Based on how they calculate whether a county is in or not in an MSA, I'd predict that Tally would gain Grady County, GA (Cairo) before we'd gain Thomas County. Reason being that there is a higher population in Thomas making their percentage of those working in Tally to be more people and the fact that Thomas County does have a better home job base than Grady.

TJ what are latest pop. figures you have for Leon, Gadsden, Wakulla, and Jefferson? Do you have the UF BEBR figures for '05? I have the hardest time finding those figures. Thanks!

http://www.talgov.com/planning/support/stat_digest.cfm

[BHCav]

Praise Hay-Zues! 174,000 took me off guard. I remember when we hit 100,000 in the 80s I believe. I have a feeling that we will have more than 242,000 by the time 2030 come around.

[Florida]

Sure they can and tons of them do. Just to name a few MSA's in the Southeast that cross state lines: Columbus, GA (includes AL), Augusta, GA (includes SC), Chattanooga, TN (includes GA), and Charlotte, NC (includes SC.)

Based on how they calculate whether a county is in or not in an MSA, I'd predict that Tally would gain Grady County, GA (Cairo) before we'd gain Thomas County. Reason being that there is a higher population in Thomas making their percentage of those working in Tally to be more people and the fact that Thomas County does have a better home job base than Grady.

TJ what are latest pop. figures you have for Leon, Gadsden, Wakulla, and Jefferson? Do you have the UF BEBR figures for '05? I have the hardest time finding those figures. Thanks!

May 2006 Update

Year----------Tallahassee------------Unincorporated------------Leon County

2000-------------150,624--------------------88,828--------------------239,452

2003-------------162,310--------------------93,190--------------------255,500

2004-------------169,136--------------------94,760--------------------263,896

2005-------------174,781--------------------96,330--------------------271,111

2006-------------178,000--------------------98,200--------------------276,200

Not Bad for Mid-Year!

Source: University of Florida, Bureau of Economic and Business Research, Tallahassee Leon County Planning Department.

This was from may. It was in another thread.

[poonther]

Thanks seminole for the link! I wasn't sure when the '06 Tally Statistical Digest was coming out and looks like it just did this month.

Based on UF BEBR estimates, the Tally metro area has roughly 360K in the year 2005. While the US Census bureau for the year 2004 only puts us at 332K. That's a difference of about 25k people. I know that BEBR uses different data to obtain estimates and is usually a higher estimate in all FL metros than the census. I also remember back in 2000 the official census bureau pop. for Leon county was much higher than what the census bureau had been estimating, but was very close to what BEBR had been estimating.

Even more of a difference is that BEBR estimates Leon County to be at 271K for '05 while the census only puts Leon at 246K for '05. BEBR estimates for the City of Tally for '05 are 175K while again the census only gives us 159K for '05.

Do you think the BEBR over-estimates? Do you think the Census under-estimates?

Which estimate do you guys tend to believe more and why?

[Florida]

As you've pointed out Poonther, the UF numbers tend to run a little higher than the Census and were also closer at year 2000 than the actual census bureau numbers themself. When you've got an entire country of demographics to do, chances are you'd make more errors than an organization that concentrates on one state. As you stated UF has a different method for calculating their figures, census likely bases its numbers on a projection.

[SkyDave]

Below is a chart of our trade area population from the most recent Statistical digest. It shows our trade area population of over 524,000 persons in North Florida and South Georgia. Why can't we consider this our OFFICIAL Metro Population???? (I hope I'm not getting in hot water for this copy)

Economic Factors

2006 Statistical Digest

3.2 Tallahassee Trade Area

According to retail sales data from Sales and Marketing Management Magazine, Leon County

accounted for 63.2% of retail sales within the Tallahassee trade in the 2004 Survey, up from

62.8% in 2004. Per capita retail sales in Leon County are high since a large percentage of the

population in neighboring counties travel to Leon County for shopping opportunities.

Figure 3-3

Tallahassee Trade Area-50 mile radius (2005)

Retail Sales

Per Capita

County

Major City

Population

(Millions)

Retail Sales

Calhoun

Blountstown

13,300

$94.3

$7,090

Franklin

Apalachicola

10,400

$134.4

$12,923

Gadsden

Quincy

45,900

$275.8

$6,010

Jefferson

Monticello

14,100

$81.6

$5,786

Leon

Tallahassee

253,600

$3,680.4

$14,513

Liberty

Bristol

7,400

$13.2

$1,784

Madison

Madison

19,000

$110.5

$5,816

Taylor

Perry

20,400

$139.5

$6,840

Wakulla

Crawfordville

26,700

$110.6

$4,141

Total Florida Counties

410,800

$4,640.3

$11,296

Brooks

Quitman

16,200

$54.1

$3,341

Decatur

Bainbridge

28,400

$332.1

$11,693

Grady

Cairo

24,500

$193.0

$7,876

Thomas

Thomasville

44,300

$603.3

$13,619

Total Georgia Counties

113,400

$1,182.5

$10,428

Total Trade Area

524,200

$5,822.8

$11,108

Trade Area Exc. Leon County

270,600

$2,142.4

$7,917

Source: Sales and Marketing Management, 2005 Survey of Buying Power, September 2005

Tallahassee-Leon County Planning Department 23

[BHCav]

Below is a chart of our trade area population from the most recent Statistical digest. It shows our trade area population of over 524,000 persons in North Florida and South Georgia. Why can't we consider this our OFFICIAL Metro Population???? (I hope I'm not getting in hot water for this copy)

Economic Factors

2006 Statistical Digest

3.2 Tallahassee Trade Area

According to retail sales data from Sales and Marketing Management Magazine, Leon County

accounted for 63.2% of retail sales within the Tallahassee trade in the 2004 Survey, up from

62.8% in 2004. Per capita retail sales in Leon County are high since a large percentage of the

population in neighboring counties travel to Leon County for shopping opportunities.

Figure 3-3

Tallahassee Trade Area-50 mile radius (2005)

Retail Sales

Per Capita

County

Major City

Population

(Millions)

Retail Sales

Calhoun

Blountstown

13,300

$94.3

$7,090

Franklin

Apalachicola

10,400

$134.4

$12,923

Gadsden

Quincy

45,900

$275.8

$6,010

Jefferson

Monticello

14,100

$81.6

$5,786

Leon

Tallahassee

253,600

$3,680.4

$14,513

Liberty

Bristol

7,400

$13.2

$1,784

Madison

Madison

19,000

$110.5

$5,816

Taylor

Perry

20,400

$139.5

$6,840

Wakulla

Crawfordville

26,700

$110.6

$4,141

Total Florida Counties

410,800

$4,640.3

$11,296

Brooks

Quitman

16,200

$54.1

$3,341

Decatur

Bainbridge

28,400

$332.1

$11,693

Grady

Cairo

24,500

$193.0

$7,876

Thomas

Thomasville

44,300

$603.3

$13,619

Total Georgia Counties

113,400

$1,182.5

$10,428

Total Trade Area

524,200

$5,822.8

$11,108

Trade Area Exc. Leon County

270,600

$2,142.4

$7,917

Source: Sales and Marketing Management, 2005 Survey of Buying Power, September 2005

Tallahassee-Leon County Planning Department 23

Good point and data.

[SkyDave]

Is it in the hands of the community to determine what is truly considered its metro area??? Based on our trade area population of 524,000 we could zoom into 2nd tier level. (cites with metro pop. between 500,000 and 1million) That could go along ways toward attracting new businesses looking to expand and put us with the other larger metros in Florida and the rest of the Southeast.

What can we do????

[Florida]

As a community the only thing we could do to make those other communities part of our metro is create enough jobs to lure their workforces. Outside of that we could probably market them as part of our metro and hope it catches on.

[poonther]

MSA are defined and determined by the US Census Bureau. There is no way we could change ours w/out their approval. MSA and Trade Areas are really two distinct and separate things. If they changed ours, they'd have to change all of them. I never see that happening.

The only counties IMO we'll ever see in the future that Tally MSA might add are Liberty County, FL Thomas County, GA and Grady County, GA.

How the Census Bureau defines MSA's

[Florida]

What about Decatur County Ga? Bainbridge? Don't many work here in Tallahassee?

That is waaaay to much reading poonther.

[poonther]

What about Decatur County Ga? Bainbridge? Don't many work here in Tallahassee?

That is waaaay to much reading poonther.

It sure is TJ! The bottom line as you know is that MSA definitions have to do w/commuting patterns. Decatur could be a possiblity, but since Bainbridge is a tad more north and west, I'd think they'd come into our metro much later.

I see it something like this and it's just my opinion: next to be added Liberty, then Grady, then Thomas and finally Decatur. You may see it differently.