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cityboy05

Tallahasse will still be capital city right?

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Ok, I have a question. What do you guys think will happen if we moved all the state offices from downtown except the ones in the capitol building, and except the Florida supreme court to somewhere else in Tallahassee say for example the Southwood complex. We would still serve our purpose as capital city right? I think so. How would that make you guys feel?

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I think you already know what Im going to say here Cityboy... Its a terrible idea.

Some argue we move the state agencies out of the downtown area to make room for private investment as if the agencies and the human capital these agencies provide for the downtown is a cancer. Truth is, even if these agencies were up rooted and moved to satillite office complexes there is no guarntee a private developer would come in with a wrecking ball to build in the vacated spaces. For what reasons do we want to remove over 35% of our employment from the downtown area?

What purpose would a Stand alone capitol building serve without its supporting agencies nearby. It would merely be a vain symbol of Tallahassee's status as a Capital City... but there will be no back bone. We talk of moving everything but the Capitol... where does that leave the Supreme Court and the Education department... are they to move away also. There go two major reasons people call our downtown beautfiul. What about the agency in the Claude Pepper building? A beautiful building I might add that is often overlooked because its not as tall as say the capitol or the turlington building, but it is home to over 1000 employees.

Each of the buildings downtown is unique because of the function they serve not because of the way they look. If we want to beautify our state departments, there is a way to go about that without removing them from the downtown area. How about building a new turlington-sized building or two to house many of the agencies that now crowd real-estate and aren't asthetically pleasing. This would not only add character to our skyline, it would free up several other pieces of land for redevelopment and retain downtown's workforce. If anything, I think the Southwood and Satillite agency movements should be reversed in favor of a more vibrant urban core. Scattering agencies all over only contributes to sprawl and unnecessary congestion.

There is no proven research that says government can't function in a downtown area. I think having the agencies in close proximity in the downtown area brings more than vibrance, it brings cohesiveness to their functionallity. The more jobs we have in the downtown, the better. I can't support the removal of any agency from downtown for any reason other than temporarily so a new building can be constructed.

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FYI, with the move that has already been started and the one I suggested that spurred this thread, I wasn't suggesting moving the state capitol, the capitol building, the Florida Supreme Court, etc.

I was suggesting moving the State Depts. located downtown. Or for example the Dept. of Business and Professional regulation located near the old Publix on North Monroe.

Basically the Depts in the state. Politicians, FL supreme court justices, etc don't need the Florida Dept of Health to be right next to the state capitol.

Since these Depts were spread out all over town before the Southwood complex, I am merely suggesting that they all be centrally located as opposed to all over the place like they currently are (of course, with the Southwood complex less so).

Downtonw never had all of these Depts. The Southwood deal was a cheap, efficient, and pretty campus feel for many depts. They have room to take the Depts like DBPR (mentioned above) and the few that are left downtown. It is well documented that the office buildings downtown are completely out of date and expensive for the state.

My suggestions is you centralize all depts to Southwood and things like the state capitol Building (ie the legislature), the Florida Supreme Court stay were the are.

In fact, Maybe after moving the depts downtonw...how about moving the governors office downtown where in belongs. That way you have two areas....your Bureaucracies all consolitidated at the Southwood campus and your 3 branches of state govt downtown? That is a sweet idea.

FYI, it has always bugged me that the Governors mansion is hidden behind an old tire store a couple of miles from the state capitol. Places like Austin have the Governors Manion facing the State captiol...and they look great, unlike what Tally has going on.

My suggestion could kill many birds with one stone...and save money.

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You suggest moving the Governor's Mansion Downtown... that sounds like a good idea. It would go well where the that Flag deal is across the street from the Capitol.

Can you be more specific about which deparments you'd like to see removed from the downtown? And could you possibly offer a suggestion for what would replace them. Education, Secretary of State, Agriculture, Revenue, WorkForce Innovation (Dept of Labor) should all remain.

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You suggest moving the Governor's Mansion Downtown... that sounds like a good idea. It would go well where the that Flag deal is across the street from the Capitol.

Can you be more specific about which deparments you'd like to see removed from the downtown? And could you possibly offer a suggestion for what would replace them. Education, Secretary of State, Agriculture, Revenue, WorkForce Innovation (Dept of Labor) should all remain.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know the downtown and what is there that well. I do know in all the articles I have read that many of the buildings are consider relics and out of date for daily business operations. I like the concept of a centralized state complex. But I will take a shot at what you listed...

*Education. No, that building is there and not going anywhere for good. No change.

*Agriculture. I don't know what building there are in, but I could see them go to the Southwood complex.

*Revenue. Same as above

*Dept of Labor. Same as above.

*sec. of State. The state capitol needs access here, they stay.

You could put the Governors mansion anywhere downtown and it would be a major improvement. Honestly, Tally looks like a poodunk town with the gov mansion on the outskirts of French town a couple miles from the state capitol and behind an old tire shop. Bunch of red necks decided on that one.

Above we are playing our wishes, but I do think we will see some more offices downtown go to the Southwood complex. I believe those plans are already mapped out.

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These buildings should go...

72210192517_290_1.jpg

72210341765_290.jpg

72210441221_290_1.jpg

These buildings need to be redesigned:

FletcherBuilding.bmp

remodeled_mayo.jpg

Also on this list is the department of Transportation... it needs a new look.

This building is beautiful!

68920800645.jpg

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notes of interest..

http://taledc.com/tlhmktreport02.php

"The State of Florida "downsizing" and "privatization-outsourcing" initiatives will be the major factor in the future of the suburban markets. Tallahassee has dodged a bullet with the Governors privatization of the human resources functions of state government (payroll functions, etc.), being delayed by Senate Committee for at least one year. The Convergys Corporation, with offices in Jacksonville was awarded the contract and planned to hire approximately 500 new positions in Jacksonville to handle the contract. Tallahassee was to receive approximately 300 positions that were to be housed in a converted second-generation grocery store. If future "privatization-outsourcing" initiatives follow this trend, it will have a significant negative impact on the Tallahassee office market. Conversely some "privatization-outsourcing" initiatives can have a positive impact on the office markets as new companies set up offices in Tallahassee to administer these contracts. Accenture recently leased additional space in the CBD after winning one of these contracts. The Tallahassee business lobby has 12-month reprieve, and must find a way to persuade the Governor and Legislature to require the contracts currently being administered in Tallahassee, to stay in Tallahassee. "

IE efficiency and cost have to be a consideration or Tally will lose the jobs period.

"The Tallahassee City Commission had 3 of the 5 Commission seats turnover since the last election cycle and Tallahassee has a new Mayor. Of the two seats that did not turn over only one of the commissioners has been in office more than one year because Allan Katz was appointed into office to replace a deceased commissioner. Therefore of the five seats, there are essentially three new commissioners and a new Mayor. In the February 2003 election all new commissioners had "Economic Growth" as a significant part of their platform, which is a first for the Tallahassee community. Going forward it will be interesting to see how these campaign promises will work their way into actual policy. The Tallahassee market will need to see genuine economic growth and job creation in order for the office markets to see recovery in 2003. "

http://www.myflorida.com/myflorida/cabinet...08/bot1208.html

"STAFF REMARKS: In 1990, The St. Joe Company (St. Joe), formerly known as St. Joe Paper Company, donated 273.1 acres, more or less, of land to the Board of Trustees for the development of a state agency office complex in Tallahassee. The resulting Southwood Complex now includes several buildings housing state agencies such as the Department of Management Services (DMS) and the Department of Community Affairs. St. Joe owns the land surrounding the complex and proposes to develop the area for a combination of commercial and residential uses.

St. Joe approached DMS with an offer to exchange four parcels of land containing 46.83 acres (Parcel 1), 47.81 acres (Parcel 2), 14.91 acres (Parcel 3), and 43.67 acres (Parcel 4) located in the vicinity of the Southwood Complex for an 80.15-acre parcel of state-owned land. The state-owned land is a portion of the land originally donated by St. Joe and is presently undeveloped. Although the value of the parcels to be acquired by the Board of Trustees exceeds the value of the parcels to be deeded to St. Joe, the Board of Trustees will not be required to compensate St. Joe for the difference in value.

The following terms and conditions are included in the proposed exchange agreement:

1. If by January 1, 2003, the state has not commenced construction of an 80,000 gross square foot building, or expended $2,000,000 on development activities related to Parcel 1, Parcel 1 will automatically revert to St. Joe, and the Board of Trustees will be deeded an alternate 46.50-acre parcel (Alternate Parcel 1).

2. If by January 1, 2008, the state has failed to commence construction of an office building on Parcel 2, title to Parcel 3 will revert to St. Joe.

3. If by January 1, 2010, the state has failed to commence construction on an office building on Parcel 2, title to Parcel 4 will revert to St. Joe.

4. In no event will the swap result in the state having less buildable area than that contained in the 80.15-acre parcel to be conveyed to St. Joe.

5. In a worse case scenario, if all of the reverter provisions are triggered, the state will end up with contiguous Parcel 2 and Alternate Parcel 1, with at least as much buildable land as it is giving up in the swap.

The exchange agreement also contains the following provisions related to shared infrastructure costs:

1. The state agrees to share in the cost of design and construction of those roads shown on Exhibit H of the exchange agreement, except that the state shall not be required to share

Board of Trustees

Agenda - December 8, 1998 Page Eighteen

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Item 14, cont.

in such costs associated with parcels that revert to St. Joe under the exchange agreement.

2. Sharing the costs on that part of the road lying immediately east of Parcel 1 is contingent on the state

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FYI, with the move that has already been started and the one I suggested that spurred this thread, I wasn't suggesting moving the state capitol, the capitol building, the Florida Supreme Court, etc.

I was suggesting moving the State Depts. located downtown. Or for example the Dept. of Business and Professional regulation located near the old Publix on North Monroe.

Basically the Depts in the state. Politicians, FL supreme court justices, etc don't need the Florida Dept of Health to be right next to the state capitol.

Since these Depts were spread out all over town before the Southwood complex, I am merely suggesting that they all be centrally located as opposed to all over the place like they currently are (of course, with the Southwood complex less so).

Downtonw never had all of these Depts. The Southwood deal was a cheap, efficient, and pretty campus feel for many depts. They have room to take the Depts like DBPR (mentioned above) and the few that are left downtown. It is well documented that the office buildings downtown are completely out of date and expensive for the state.

My suggestions is you centralize all depts to Southwood and things like the state capitol Building (ie the legislature), the Florida Supreme Court stay were the are.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I totally agree with you stjoe.I could never see the capitol building, or Florida Supereme court gone from downtown Tallahassee. And as for having a backbone for private development to occur these buildings are it.

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I'll continue to stick with my initial statment. Downtown doesn't need it's human capital drained away. Sure... office parks have long been popular in this community, before southwood there was Northwood, Kroger, Westwood, Commonwealth, and points off of Blair Stone and Mahan.

I'm in support of spreading state agencies for the sake of spuring more economic development, such as companies like Convergies in Southwood, and southwood itself... banks like Florida Commerce and such.

But now that we see the importance of building a vibrant downtown, and having people live in Condos near their jobs, it makes no since for us to now entertain the thought of moving the jobs away... I have a puzzled look on my face because of this conversation.

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