Orlando Citrus Bowl Stadium [Renovation Completed]

[spenser1058]

10 minutes ago, HankStrong said:

I know you were playing around, but a roof or dome or covered stadium isn't what my friends were discussing.  Generally speaking, modern sports stadiums have some sun/rain protection when they are in areas prone to bad weather.  It's not an indoor stadium, but offers a bit of cover.

 

On a serious note, it's not empty 360 days a year is it?  That can't be.  Maybe it is??

There are 3 bowl games, the Florida Classic (FAMU vs. B-CC), the FHSAA playoffs (which are likely moving) and usually two or three FBS neutral site games.

I’m not sure if Jones High still plays their home games there or not.

There are a few tractor pulls and a few concerts (though those are decreasing in favor of arena events).

Oh and WWF every few years.

My guess would be 20 days/year or so as a back of the envelope figure.

[JFW657]

21 minutes ago, HankStrong said:

I know you were playing around, but a roof or dome or covered stadium isn't what my friends were discussing.  Generally speaking, modern sports stadiums have some sun/rain protection when they are in areas prone to bad weather.  It's not an indoor stadium, but offers a bit of cover.

 

On a serious note, it's not empty 360 days a year is it?  That can't be.  Maybe it is??

Yeah, I figured you were talking about something along the lines of what is on the Orlando City Soccer stadium just up the street.

I'm still not sure it would be economically feasable, though.

As things stand right now, nobody plays there during the sweltering heat of summer and more often than not, the weather in January is very pleasant.

I suppose the question then would be, would the rare occasion (like yesterday) that a roof would have been a really nice thing to have, justify the expenditure required to put one on?

[spenser1058]

21 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

There are 3 bowl games, the Florida Classic (FAMU vs. B-CC), the FHSAA playoffs (which are likely moving) and usually two or three FBS neutral site games.

I’m not sure if Jones High still plays their home games there or not.

There are a few tractor pulls and a few concerts (though those are decreasing in favor of arena events).

Oh and WWF every few years.

My guess would be 20 days/year or so as a back of the envelope figure.

Also throw in Pro Bowl if it gets renewed (tmk, no one else really wants it) and any World Cup prelim games we might get assuming the US/Mexico bid proceeds.

FCS should have fought to keep UCF with any sweeteners they could, Because not only have they lost UCF home games and AAC championship games but now the Apollos as well. I know Dick Nunis was dying to get them on campus but for the Citrus Bowl it was stupid to let them go.

Now that UCF is going to have a downtown campus, there’s a reason to try to get them to play some games downtown, especially those like South Florida that could fill the extra seats if the Knights keep playing well.

The key is the city and FCS realizing they have everything to gain and not treating UCF like dirt this time around.

Edited January 28, 2019 by spenser1058

[IAmFloridaBorn]

The citrus bowl is in a lackluster location and is a lackluster stadium. It will never draw or attract anything. 

 

They should have left a space in creative village for a new state of the art stadium and events space. Turn current citrus bowl into musuem or arts space or even community space to revitalize that area. 

[spenser1058]

53 minutes ago, IAmFloridaBorn said:

The citrus bowl is in a lackluster location and is a lackluster stadium. It will never draw or attract anything. 

 

They should have left a space in creative village for a new state of the art stadium and events space. Turn current citrus bowl into musuem or arts space or even community space to revitalize that area. 

“Lackluster”, perhaps, but still a Jan. 1 bowl game (although not NY6). Creative Village doesn’t have enough land for the parking and practice fields that go along with it. 

I’m sympathetic to the chaos it creates in the surrounding neighborhood, but many of those folks make a good bit of money by letting patrons park in their yards and don’t want to lose that.

In a perfect world, it probably should have gone to the attractions area where there was plenty of room and fewer traffic issues.

Nevertheless, after the money that has been invested at this point, it would probably be a hard sell to move right now. Were these things that should have been discussed with stakeholders and citizens before a dollar was spent?

Absolutely. However, Bulldozer Buddy and JFW are omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent and took the decision away from anyone else.

So here we are.

For the foreseeable future, it’s either leave it as it is or put more funds into improvements.

Edited January 28, 2019 by spenser1058

[IAmFloridaBorn]

29 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

“Lackluster”, perhaps, but still a Jan. 1 bowl game (although not NY6). Creative Village doesn’t have enough land for the parking and practice fields that go along with it.

I’m sympathetic to the chaos it creates in the surrounding neighborhood, but many of those folks make a good bit of money by letting patrons park in their yards and don’t want to lose that.

In a perfect world, it probably should have gone to the attractions area where there was plenty of room and fewer traffic issues.

Nevertheless, after the money that has been invested at this point, it would probably be a hard sell to move right now.

For the foreseeable future, it’s either leave it as it is or put more funds into improvements.

City ruined what could have been by leaving citrus bowl where it is. Nothing we can do now though. 

[spenser1058]

2 minutes ago, IAmFloridaBorn said:

City ruined what could have been by leaving citrus bowl where it is. Nothing we can do now though. 

Exactly.

[spenser1058]

Accidentally duplicated.

Edited January 28, 2019 by spenser1058

[Xander]

8 hours ago, HankStrong said:

I have been to the stadiums many times both before and after the renovations.  I was there yesterday in the pouring the rain.  I'll give you this: the seats in the lower bowl are much better than before.  That's basically it.  The access ways are cramped. The restrooms are poor.  The concessions are like a county fair, although there was a 4Rivers stand. 

This is LESS of a dump than it was.  I guess you could say that a 1979 Dodge Aspen without seats and no muffler is a junker.  That doesn't make a 1989 Dodge Reliant K with seats and a muffler less of a junker just because it isn't the former.

I'm not sure what stadiums you are visiting, but this is way below good.

LOL........ ok. I didn't know concession choices that you don't prefer and 4 year old bathrooms make an entire stadium "a dump", but you do you. 

[spenser1058]

Give me McRib or Give Me Death!

[Uncommon]

It definitely isn’t a dump lol no, it isn’t state of the art or super-modern but for a 20+-year old stadium, it’s certainly serviceable. People must only have been to the Amway or Cowboys Stadium or Mercedes-Benz Stadium if they’re referring to Camping World as a dump. Sure, it’s got nothing on those places but for a stadium that doesn’t have a regular tenant or one that doesn’t expect to get a tenant soon, it’s pretty remarkable that there are frequent renovations to it. The fact that the city keeps pumping money into it is a sign that it isn’t a dump at all. If it was, the city wouldn’t care about it at all.

Edited January 28, 2019 by Uncommon

[codypet]

How does Everbank Field or Raymond James, or Hardrock Stadium compare?

[Kaz]

I would describe the citrus bowl as a nice college stadium. It’s well below NFL caliber compared to the three in state stadiums but not awful. The lower bowl is decent since it was remodeled and the amenities are acceptable. Compared to Atlanta it’s little league quality imo. That place is at a level well above anything in Florida and very fan friendly. That’s what 2 billion dollars gets you though. 

 I wouldn’t put a lot more into construction of this facility beyond the most recent proposal.  If we ever get an NFL team they will want a brand new facility with amenities that will dwarf what’s possible at the citrus bowl.  The citrus bowl would make a nice temporary home.  

Edited January 28, 2019 by Kaz

[Xander]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

Give me McRib or Give Me Death!

Aren't they the same thing? 

[spenser1058]

Just now, Xander said:

Aren't they the same thing? 

Just make sure to send lots of Dr Pepper to the wake!

[IAmFloridaBorn]

1 hour ago, codypet said:

How does Everbank Field or Raymond James, or Hardrock Stadium compare?

Far Better stadiums than that crappy circus bowl

[JFW657]

3 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Absolutely. However, Bulldozer Buddy and JFW are omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent and took the decision away from anyone else.

So.... why are you blaming me? 

As much as I'd have been willing to do the same thing BD did, I had absolutely zero input into it.

59 minutes ago, Kaz said:

I would describe the citrus bowl as a nice college stadium. It’s well below NFL caliber compared to the three in state stadiums but not awful. The lower bowl is decent since it was remodeled and the amenities are acceptable. Compared to Atlanta it’s little league quality imo. That place is at a level well above anything in Florida and very fan friendly. That’s what 2 billion dollars gets you though. 

 I wouldn’t put a lot more into construction of this facility beyond the most recent proposal.  If we ever get an NFL team they will want a brand new facility with amenities that will dwarf what’s possible at the citrus bowl.  The citrus bowl would make a nice temporary home.  

IOW... it's just fine given what it gets used for. 

[HankStrong]

I've changed my mind.  It's the best stadium ever.   

[spenser1058]

This will, I’m sure, not be a popular opinion, so be gentle when you flame me. In truth, I have to say even I’m a bit surprised.

Nevertheless, here goes:

Despite the hundreds of millions of dollars invested in venues like the O-rena, the Am, the Citrus Bowl, the OCSC stadium and even DPAC, it would be difficult to say the areas around each have noticeably changed for the better as a result of the addition of those venues.

Parramore certainly hasn’t changed and in the case of the O-rena and DPAC, any additions to their neighborhoods can’t be attributed directly to their existence.

Just something to remember next time someone comes with their hand out. It may indeed be worthwhile for the structure itself but to say it will change everything is simply false.

That also leads me to believe, in the case of Parramore, that assistance in aiding organic growth (such as the redevelopment of Eola Heights and Thornton Park which were blighted as well 25 years ago) might have done a lot more and eventually provided more tax revenues than any venue has.

In the ongoing battles  between the forces of Jane Jacobs and Robert Moses, I believe Jane wins this one.

I mention this because I’ve been driving past the Citrus Bowl the last couple of weeks almost daily and have been struck by how little has changed over the last few decades there.

Edited January 29, 2019 by spenser1058

[HankStrong]

I don't believe that is universally true with sports teams because it's amazing to go to some areas around sporting events.  I can't say that I completely disagree with you here, though.  I'm reserving judgment until I-4 is done and maybe the Magic Complex and CV get built.

 

In Indy, you have the whole area from Circle Centre to White River Park which has really improved since the 80s.

In Columbus, you have a ton of breweries/eateries nearby and the area is extremely popular.

In Cincinnati, they have built a ton of new housing right by the stadiums and have a huge area called The Banks that has anything you might want to do.

In Tampa, they have started taking baby steps.

In Jax, they tons of stuff to do around the area and it seems to be on the upswing.

In Boston, they have a lively bar scene near Fenway.

[prahaboheme]

LA Live’s influence on the South Park neighborhood of DTLA is also worth noting.

 

[JFW657]

2 hours ago, HankStrong said:

I've changed my mind.  It's the best stadium ever.   

[spenser1058]

Hank, you mention Jacksonville, but Ennis Davis and The Jaxson magazine continue to bemoan the fact that downtown Jax is the least successful of the Florida cities in bringing growth back. 

I will, however, take both your points and those of prahaboheme on the other cities I’m not familiar with.

That leads me to another question : if that’s the case, what are we getting wrong? Since there’s definitely investment and growth going on downtown, why are our venues having little to no impact?

[prahaboheme]

2 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

Hank, you mention Jacksonville, but Ennis Davis and The Jaxson magazine continue to bemoan the fact that downtown Jax is the least successful of the Florida cities in bringing growth back. 

I will, however, take both your points and those of prahaboheme on the other cities I’m not familiar with.

That leads me to another question : if that’s the case, what are we getting wrong? Since there’s definitely investment and growth going on downtown, why are our venues having little to no impact?

Just a thought: the cities that have done this successfully tend to have an aggressive public / private partnership and not relying too heavily on the private sector to drive the evolution of neighborhoods. Orlando seems to be the latter (at least in the last several decades).  There have been many plans for Parramore over the last few decades and it always feels more like a talking piece at the State of the City than a substantive effort to revitalize.

 

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

This will, I’m sure, not be a popular opinion, so be gentle when you flame me. In truth, I have to say even I’m a bit surprised.

Nevertheless, here goes:

Despite the hundreds of millions of dollars invested in venues like the O-rena, the Am, the Citrus Bowl, the OCSC stadium and even DPAC, it would be difficult to say the areas around each have noticeably changed for the better as a result of the addition of those venues.

Parramore certainly hasn’t changed and in the case of the O-rena and DPAC, any additions to their neighborhoods can’t be attributed directly to their existence.

Just something to remember next time someone comes with their hand out. It may indeed be worthwhile for the structure itself but to say it will change everything is simply false.

That also leads me to believe, in the case of Parramore, that assistance in aiding organic growth (such as the redevelopment of Eola Heights and Thornton Park which were blighted as well 25 years ago) might have done a lot more and eventually provided more tax revenues than any venue has.

In the ongoing battles  between the forces of Jane Jacobs and Robert Moses, I believe Jane wins this one.

I mention this because I’ve been driving past the Citrus Bowl the last couple of weeks almost daily and have been struck by how little has changed over the last few decades there.

Not sure if a drastic, immediately noticeable improvement in the surrounding 'hoods was ever a goal or a promise. But certainly, they've brought with them more employment opportunities for the residents, albeit part time and seasonal ones. But a chance to make extra money is a chance to make extra money and every little bit helps when you're living below the poverty level.

As far as new construction and cleaning up the blight is concerned, I don't think a sports venue alone could be expected to accomplish that on it's own. A lot depends on the particular city in question.

Finally, I think the fact that Orlando has no pro football team playing in that stadium could have a dampening effect on any enthusiasm for businesses wanting to be located near the stadium.