Orlando Citrus Bowl Stadium [Renovation Completed]

[spenser1058]

2 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Not sure if a drastic, immediately noticeable improvement in the surrounding 'hoods was ever a goal or a promise. But certainly, they've brought with them more employment opportunities for the residents, albeit part time and seasonal ones. But a chance to make extra money is a chance to make extra money and every little bit helps when you're living below the poverty level.

As far as new construction and cleaning up the blight is concerned, I don't think a sports venue alone could be expected to accomplish that on it's own. A lot depends on the particular city in question.

Finally, I think the fact that Orlando has no pro football team playing in that stadium could have a dampening effect on any enthusiasm for businesses wanting to be located near the stadium.

On the first part, that would be probably be true if Orlando didn’t have a practically unlimited stock of entry-level jobs requiring no particular skills in the attractions area that are paying as much as $15/hr now (thanks, Disney!) So that may have less effect than it might in other cities.

I agree with you on the second point, but as prahaboheme notes with the State of the City addresses, that’s most of what Buddy’s been offering as the savior of Parramore for the past 15 years.

I agree about the importance of a pro (or even a successful college) team but, moving away from the Citrus Bowl for a moment, we had/have the Magic at both the O-rena and The Am. In two decades at the O-rena and getting close to a decade at the Am, the needle hasn’t moved much.

I mentioned DPAC because there was a belief that all these high-end restaurants, galleries, shops and so forth were going to pop up. So far, they haven’t, and in over 80 years of the Municipal Auditorium/ Bob Carr they haven’t, either.

[dcluley98]

Immediately noticeable improvement in the surrounding areas was indeed a main goal of the projects. It was specifically marketed with a spiffy slogan "The Triple Crown for Downtown" and a specific community improvement plan "The Blueprint" in order to sell the funding of these venues, along with the Blueprint oversight office to provide opportunities for M/WBE and disadvantaged businesses in the downtown/Parramore area. 

http://www.cityoforlando.net/venues/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2014/02/blueprint_book.pdf

The entire name of the program literally reflected that specific goal "THE BLUEPRINT - for Using Community Venues to Create a Sustainable Economic Impact" 

And throughout there are quotes such as: "In November 2005, the Orlando City Council made a bold decision to not just build buildings, but to embark on a process to transform neighborhoods, through the development of these three community venues. "
"The community Venues development and construction presents the City of Orlando and its Venue Partners with an opportunity to make a significant and long term positive impact in the minority communities of Orlando, and Orange County along with the local community at large. . . . Given the dual focus of employment and business participation, the City of Orlando is looking to leverage this community investment to create a sustainable economic impact for the local community"

[spenser1058]

One other thing behind all this: Buddy is the Father of the Venues and now that the venues are mostly done, it’s probably fair to look at the results promised.

Buddy sold a specific agenda and has it worked? He specifically said that the success of Parramore would be the guide on how well he had done as mayor.

OK, here we are. He’s now the longest serving mayor in Orlando history and is about to run for four more years.

It’s interesting to note that Carl Langford, Bill Frederick and Glenda Hood all foundered after their first eight years or so.

I’ve voted for Buddy each time (I also volunteered and made financial contributions for his first run and stopped when he became Bulldozer Buddy.)

Is it time to declare victory, thank him for his excellent service and seek out a new candidate willing to try a different direction?

That’s definitely on my mind with an election less than 10 months away.

Edited January 29, 2019 by spenser1058

[JFW657]

Orlando seems to have a lot of intangible issues that we can't seem to put our collective finger on when it comes to things like downtown retail, high-rise office construction and community redevelopment around the venues.

Lots of speculation, but no firm answers.

Maybe we have too much of a tourism based economy that pulls everything away from downtown and spreads it out around the attractions area. Maybe we have too many suburban office park options. Maybe our leadership just doesn't care or doesn't try hard enough or is too beholden to other interests. 

Or maybe it's us.

Maybe as a city and community we are somehow deficient or second rate. 

Maybe we just can't git 'er done.

[spenser1058]

1 minute ago, JFW657 said:

Orlando seems to have a lot of intangible issues that we can't seem to put our collective finger on when it comes to things like downtown retail, high-rise office construction and community redevelopment around the venues.

Lots of speculation, but no firm answers.

Maybe we have too much of a tourism based economy that pulls everything away from downtown and spreads it out around the attractions area. Maybe we have too many suburban office park options. Maybe our leadership just doesn't care or doesn't try hard enough or is too beholden to other interests. 

Or maybe it's us.

Maybe as a city and community we are somehow deficient or second rate. 

Maybe we just can't git 'er done.

I think that’s perhaps overstating it since our downtown is receiving investment, more people are moving in than in almost any other second-tier city (and more than a few first-tier ones). I think it’s more that we may have reached the limits of, ummm, the current blueprint and may need to try a different direction with a different head coach.

[JFW657]

10 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

I think that’s perhaps overstating it since our downtown is receiving investment, more people are moving in than in almost any other second-tier city (and more than a few first-tier ones). I think it’s more that we may have reached the limits of, ummm, the current blueprint and may need to try a different direction with a different head coach.

Or maybe some of us here at UP are just being a tad impatient and unrealistic about our expectations for little old Orlando?

[spenser1058]

1 minute ago, JFW657 said:

Or maybe some of us here at UP are just being a tad impatient and unrealistic about our expectations for little old Orlando?

Ummm, Orlando’s not little any more. We’ll probably hit Top 20 MSA in the next census.

Maybe we just need leadership that reflects that fact.

Are we keeping up with Austin, Nashville and Charlotte? Those are our peers. In some ways, we’re ahead, in others behind. What we’re looking at is the latter and what to do about it.

[prahaboheme]

5 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

Ummm, Orlando’s not little any more. We’ll probably hit Top 20 MSA in the next census.

Maybe we just need leadership that reflects that fact.

Are we keeping up with Austin, Nashville and Charlotte? Those are our peers. In some ways, we’re ahead, in others behind. What we’re looking at is the latter and what to do about it.

What each of those cities have that we lack is actual mass transit expansion.

[spenser1058]

33 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

What each of those cities have that we lack is actual mass transit expansion.

Charlotte, of course, got our light rail. Nashville just had a battle royale over transit that, unless I missed it, didn’t proceed. (They do have commuter rail like us.) Unless their bus service has come a long way, it’s nothing to wtrite home about.

Not sure where Austin is at the moment. A quick Google search shows they have commuter rail. My guess would be with a major state university that’s been around for a long time in town their bus system is more advanced than Lynx. It’s 

Edited January 29, 2019 by spenser1058

[JFW657]

6 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

Ummm, Orlando’s not little any more. We’ll probably hit Top 20 MSA in the next census.

Maybe we just need leadership that reflects that fact.

Are we keeping up with Austin, Nashville and Charlotte? Those are our peers. In some ways, we’re ahead, in others behind. What we’re looking at is the latter and what to do about it.

Our downtown is still little, though. We still have a dinky little skyline with no buildings taller than 30 stories. Large gaps with undeveloped parcels just sitting there and developers who create renderings, announce grand plans then never follow through. We still aren't even seeing the old five story Bell South building renovation. When's that gonna happen? Our prime piece of property on Orange Avenue got an underwhelming five story, wood frame condo that is now trying to stymie the height of another proposed underwhelming development on the same parcel.

Not sure how Buddy is responsible for any of that.

[spenser1058]

Unlike Austin, Charlotte or Nashville, our downtown is not and never has been the hub of activity for the region.

It probably never will be.

However, the function of a strong mayor form of government is to steer the community’s assets toward desired goals.

Thanks to Buddy, we now have the venues many in the community said we would never get.(Those same folks also told us we’d never have a major airport but we do - it’s likely now in the Top 10- thank Mayor Bill for that).

What comes next is figuring out how to maximize our communities around the venues. As prahaboheme notes, transit is also the long-ignored problem we have to address.

Like Moses in the Bible, they’ve gotten us to this point but seemingly can’t get us any further. The question is, who can?

To mix metaphors, we’re not on first base. We’re on third and looking to get home.

[JFW657]

4 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

Unlike Austin, Charlotte or Nashville, our downtown is not and never has been the hub of activity for the region. 

It probably never will be. 

Really???

I seem to recall hearing a lot of "back in the old days" stories about Orlando's downtown activity prior to the onset of the suburban shopping mall and the national flight away from inner cities to the peace and quiet of those burbs.

If our downtown is likely to never be the hub of activity around here, why do we spend so much time talking about it? 

[spenser1058]

43 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Really???

I seem to recall hearing a lot of "back in the old days" stories about Orlando's downtown activity prior to the onset of the suburban shopping mall and the national flight away from inner cities to the peace and quiet of those burbs.

If our downtown is likely to never be the hub of activity around here, why do we spend so much time talking about it? 

I have written several posts in response to why downtown Orlando has never been the main employment hub of the region and why we don’t necessarily have the largest buildings downtown as a result.

In many cities, some of the tallest buildings downtown are the hotels that service the convention center. Our convention center, of course, is in the attractions area, and, as a result, that’s where our largest hotels are (along with the ones that house the tourists who visit the theme parks away from downtown and feed our largest industry).

In many cities, the largest employers are downtown. That’s not the case in Orlando and hasn’t been going back to our earliest days as an agricultural town. It was cemented with the location of Martin Marietta and Walt Disney World.

The decision to locate FTU so far out of town when we were trying to justify it as “the space university”. Today, most of the tech companies are clustered around it instead of downtown.

Orlando, unlike Charlotte, is not a financial hub, which clusters in their uptown area. We are not a state capital, like Austin or Nashville, so we don’t have the large state government presence to cluster with downtown.

Downtown used to be the region’s retail hub but that changed in 1962 with the coming of Colonial Plaza Mall.

Unlike most cities, most of Orlando’s growth came in the 1960’s and after, when downtowns were rapidly falling out of favor.

The fact we’ve made as much of Downtown given all these things is amazing. It doesn’t change the fact, however, that our downtown will always be a prominent node in the region rather than the primary economic engine.

 

Edited January 29, 2019 by spenser1058

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

I have written several posts in response to why downtown Orlando has never been the main employment hub of the region and why we don’t necessarily have the largest buildings downtown as a result.

Oh OK. You said "hub of activity" before and since we were talking about downtown retail and office buildings etc, I assumed we were speaking in broader terms than just employment. Our downtown was at one time the hub of retail, social and entertainment activity for the area.

But even so, a lot of business activity and related employment is strictly office based. But downtown Orlando for various reasons that have been discussed here at length, can't seem to attract enough of it to require the construction of a even a few more high rise buildings to house it. 

Even our latest addition to the skyline is only a mere 26 - 28 stories with much of that being hotel space.

Whatever the reason for that might be, it doesn't change the fact that our downtown is still on the small-ish side and there's only so much a mayor can do to change that.

Although sometimes he might have to make the difficult decision to bulldoze a block of run down old dime stores in order to create a new centerpiece mixed use high-rise development in order to bring much needed residential, retail and entertainment to the city's core. 

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

However, the function of a strong mayor form of government is to steer the community’s assets toward desired goals.

Thanks to Buddy, we now have the venues many in the community said we would never get.(Those same folks also told us we’d never have a major airport but we do - it’s likely now in the Top 10- thank Mayor Bill for that).

Even though he had to bulldoze an old unused baseball field to achieve one of them, something he has been both praised and sharply criticized for.

Occasionally by the same people.... 

J/K. Sorry. Couldn't resist....  

.

Edited January 29, 2019 by JFW657

[spenser1058]

I’m a believer in a strong mayor form of government- I’ve long observed that’s why the mayor of Orlando has more clout than the OC mayor. It should be just the opposite.

That does not however, make him the Maximum Leader. In a democracy, the leader shapes and cajoles to get what he/she wants.

As Donald Trump has found out with his wall. It’s why businessmen rarely make successful politicians. It’s an entirely different skill set.

As FDR pointed out, the worst thing to happen to a leader is to look behind you and see no one is following.

[spenser1058]

What a lot of folks don’t realize is there is more than one way to have a successful city.

In less than a decade, more people will live in Orange County than Hillsborough and our county leaders will have more political clout at the state and federal level. But how can that be? Tampa has all those tall buildings!

Another case: St. Pete may be the biggest city in Pinellas County. But try to get business done in person with county staff or present an idea to the county commission. Good luck, because the county seat is in Clearwater.

Many of the cities in the Midwest have lots of tall buildings but their cities are falling apart and losing population. Meanwhile, here in poor little Orlando with our stumpy little buildings, we gain more political, economic and cultural clout everyday. How can that be? If you don’t have 65 story buildings, you just don’t matter!

One other thought: Woolworth and Sears both built really tall buildings (each were the world’s tallest at different points). Walmart never has.

Which company would you rather be?

Edited January 29, 2019 by spenser1058

[spenser1058]

Will The U play their spring game at the Citrus Bowl? It might happen.

They’ll also be back to play the Gators this fall.

Apparently the ‘canes like it better than Hank!

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-hurricanes/fl-sp-um-hurricanes-spring-game-orlando-20190130-story,amp.html

From the Sun Sentinel 

[HankStrong]

You're incorrect.  I'm the new #1 fan!

 

GO STADIUM!

[JFW657]

30 minutes ago, HankStrong said:

You're incorrect.  I'm the new #1 fan!

 

GO STADIUM!

                   

[spenser1058]

Doing the right thing for your fans and customers... and making more money in the process. A report from Atlanta:

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/mercedes-benz-stadium-5-beers-and-2-hot-dogs-why-mercedes-benz-stadiums-radical-pricing-worked/

From CBS News

[JFW657]

So with this new cheaper beer pricing strategy, will we see more rowdy fans getting drunk, starting fights and getting thrown out? 

[spenser1058]

15 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

So with this new cheaper beer pricing strategy, will we see more rowdy fans getting drunk, starting fights and getting thrown out? 

I suspect not since it’s still $5. In any event, that argument has been rolling around for years in the Disney parks since they decided to break canon and sell alcohol.

It hasn’t happened.

People get drunk at games and in theme parks get drunk from the hard stuff they sneak in, not what they buy there.

The whole 1950’s mentality about such behavior once went to ridiculous lengths.

Ray Kroc refused to allow pay phones (yes, kids, those were once a thing)  at McDonald’s because he believed it would attract a bad element.

The obvious remedy for such issues is to have effective managers who do their jobs.

Edited February 3, 2019 by spenser1058

[prahaboheme]

13 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

So with this new cheaper beer pricing strategy, will we see more rowdy fans getting drunk, starting fights and getting thrown out? 

Based on this remark, it is pretty clear you haven’t been to an NFL game in some time. The price of the ticket alone is more expensive than an entire day out at other sporting events.

[JFW657]

I dunno. Alcohol impairs reasoning and judgement. In some people, much moreso than others. I've seen a few drunks get tossed out of sporting and concert events before. Once, I got a beer shower from some drunk as he was flailing around while being carried out of a Tom Petty concert at the old O-Rena by four very large bouncers. One on each extremity.

Not sure, but I thought that some years ago, I read that increasing beer prices was part of a planned strategy to curtail such incidents.

[prahaboheme]

50 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

I dunno. Alcohol impairs reasoning and judgement. In some people, much moreso than others. I've seen a few drunks get tossed out of sporting and concert events before. Once, I got a beer shower from some drunk as he was flailing around while being carried out of a Tom Petty concert at the old O-Rena by four very large bouncers. One on each extremity.

Not sure, but I thought that some years ago, I read that increasing beer prices was part of a planned strategy to curtail such incidents.

How did that planned strategy pan out?