Orlando Citrus Bowl Stadium [Renovation Completed]

[orlandouprise]

On 10/8/2019 at 9:47 AM, HankStrong said:

I understand that as far as great places to take your family go, Orlando isn't as flashy as Hawaii.  However, the Pro Bowl has to make a 100x more money here in Orlando.

 

My only hope is that this keeps those renovations coming in.  If they won't nuke the place and start over, at least keep fixing it.  I would like to see a brand new facility instead of throwing good money after bad, but improvements are still better than no improvements.

I agree, but if they must keep it than at least play up its historical side. Wrigley Field modernized its bathrooms but STILL kept a small portion of their stainless steel trough urinals mixed in with modern urinals and it actually looks kinda cool. Would have been nice to do the same with ours. Kinda of a unique feature even if it is gross lol.

[dcluley98]

??? There is nothing there historic. 

The only thing that is left from previous renovation are the top grand-stands and the light towers which were completed in 1989. Tinker Field was historic, https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/orange-county/os-orlando-tinker-field-parramore-20180501-story.html

But nothing about CWS is historic at all. At least they  did create a memorial plaza for Tinker after they cut it  apart for the last stadium renovation: 

Edited October 24, 2019 by dcluley98

[orlandouprise]

7 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

??? There is nothing there historic. 

The only thing that is left from previous renovation are the top grand-stands and the light towers which were completed in 1989. Tinker Field was historic, https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/orange-county/os-orlando-tinker-field-parramore-20180501-story.html

But nothing about CWS is historic at all. At least they  did create a memorial plaza for Tinker after they cut it  apart for the last stadium renovation: 

had no idea about CWS. I cried for Tinker Field when it came down. This city definitely got that wrong. A stupid plaque is all we have left. A HUGE missed opportunity 

[HankStrong]

And yet, they still kept the same stupid base.

[spenser1058]

Bulldozer Buddy may have mowed down Tinker Field but the Tinker Building lives on:

https://twitter.com/dwntwn_orlando/status/1187801640428023813?s=21

We’ll also always remember baseball’s greatest infield ever - Tinker to Evers to Chance:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball's_Sad_Lexicon

 

Edited October 25, 2019 by spenser1058

[spenser1058]

Remembering the Wigwam Village:

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/opinion/ask-orlando/os-op-ask-orlando-wigwam-village-teepees-20191214-kbeqv2qykfbmneiej4qycrux7i-story.html

From the Sentinel 

[HankStrong]

I've always wanted to stay in a teepee.

[spenser1058]

I hope someone takes this and runs with some actual numbers to verify or disprove.

If it is true to any extent, it means the facts on the ground are somewhat different than the way things have been sold.

It would also mean the Citrus Bowl really does belong in the tourist zone.

I have no idea what the truth is. The only thing I do know is that on game days there is significant traffic from the attractions area to the stadium and back (including this morning and it was easy to tell it was game traffic due to all the ‘Bama and Michigan swag on the cars).

Also, the host hotels for the teams seem to mostly be down south, not the downtown hotels, based on the media I see.

That’s all anecdotal, though, and may or may not comport with the facts.

https://twitter.com/mrfranktorres/status/1212399944784633858?s=21

 

[cwetteland]

I'm confused.  The money to upgrade the stadium comes from the tourist tax,  The purpose is to attract tourist.  We discover the people going to the games are tourist, staying in tourist district.  And this is controversial, why ...???? 

Edited January 1, 2020 by cwetteland

[spenser1058]

43 minutes ago, cwetteland said:

I'm confused.  The money to upgrade the stadium comes from the tourist tax,  The purpose is to attract tourist.  We discover the people going to the games are tourist, staying in tourist district.  And this is controversial, why ...???? 

That is correct. To me, it’s a matter of efficiency. If those folks are spending their time somewhere other than downtown, why again are we investing in a downtown stadium that few people seem to be enamored of (even if it is @HankStrong‘s favorite)? Does such a facility belong elsewhere?

I haven’t seen the numbers delineating that but it seems a valid question. Preferably from an objective source not trying to promote either locale.

Traffic is enough of an issue in Orlando that it matters. It also is a good question  if being next door to a stadium is the best way to make a viable neighborhood of West Orlando.

I have no dog in the hunt. I just want to make the best use of our resources.

This is a big part of why new voices in government are so important. We keep doing things based upon assumptions that are decades old. Let’s ask if the same answers are still the best ones, no matter how entrenched the status quo is.

To show how this matters: the old Orlando Arena and Bob Carr turned out, even though they were just blocks away from downtown proper, to generate very little ancillary business downtown. If recent stories are correct, the NEW Amway Arena, literally a block away, is not generating a lot of activity for Church St. businesses, either. Why is that?

It stands to reason the Citrus Bowl, even further away, might not be doing so either. If it isn’t, why exactly are we keeping it where it is? Especially given we may have Exploria as a possibility for truly local events.

Edited January 1, 2020 by spenser1058

[prahaboheme]

I seem to recall the opposite - there is significant foot traffic downtown before/after events at Amway,Orlando Lions games, events at CWS, shows at DPAC.  Why advocate to relocate a venue to a non-walkable location in the burbs?

I would also point to the fact that these venues are also not solely for tourists.

[spenser1058]

Just now, prahaboheme said:

I seem to recall the opposite - there is significant foot traffic downtown before/after events at Amway,Orlando Lions games, events at CWS, shows at DPAC.  Why advocate to relocate a venue to a non-walkable location in the burbs?

That’s not the reports coming out lately as discussed earlier here. We both prefer a walkable universe, it’s true, but we’re still in a minority in the Sunbelt.

It’s entirely possible there was an agenda in the discussions of Church St being a “ghost town”, quite possibly to make Lincoln’s next phase more palatable. Who knows? The big corporate honchos may have decided they’d make more money if they ditch the historic district and this is just the opening salvo.

Once again, we have no reliable numbers.

As to the Citrus Bowl, it’s really not all that walkable. Even if some hearty souls did want to,  there seems to be little evidence they are.

Once again, we need reliable numbers.

What I can say is that some of the visions for downtown conceived as early as 1980 have worked marvelously. Others, not so much. I had always assumed that with a new mayor we’d look at those but it looks like I may join several generations of my family at Woodlawn before that happens again.

As a result, it’s important to start asking some of these questions and getting them to bubble up since it’s not happening via the political process.

We know, for example, that the addition of the Citrus Bowl to the venues package was a last minute add-on: it wasn’t originally included.

We also know that the amount they had said in a different setting that they needed jumped significantly.

As far as we know, there was no real due diligence on this or, significantly, a study as to whether the Citrus Bowl made the most sense as a location. The joke circulating at the time was that someone from FCS whispered sweet nothings in Buddy’s ears and off we went.

What we know many years later is that is not an unreasonable, If joking, assessment of Buddy’s M.O. This is an administration that will never be accused of too much transparency.

Anyway, all that aside, it’s a reasonable question to ask if all this makes sense. There never seems to have been a process to objectively determine it. If everything is peachy keen, fine. If not, what alternatives should we explore? There is nothing to lose in asking the questions and may be much to gain.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

That’s not the reports coming out lately as discussed earlier here. We both prefer a walkable universe, it’s true, but we’re still in a minority in the Sunbelt.

It’s entirely possible there was an agenda in the discussions of Church St being a “ghost town”, quite possibly to make Lincoln’s next phase more palatable. Who knows? The big corporate honchos may have decided they’d make more money if they ditch the historic district and this is just the opening salvo.

Once again, we have no reliable numbers.

As to the Citrus Bowl, it’s really not all that walkable. Even if some hearty souls did want to,  there seems to be little evidence they are.

Once again, we need reliable numbers.

What I can say is that some of the visions for downtown conceived as early as 1980 have worked marvelously. Others, not so much. I had always assumed that with a new mayor we’d look at those but it looks like I may join several generations of my family at Woodlawn before that happens again.

As a result, it’s important to start asking some of these questions and getting them to bubble up since it’s not happening via the political process.

We know, for example, that the addition of the Citrus Bowl to the venues package was a last minute add-on: it wasn’t originally included.

We also know that the amount they had said in a different setting that they needed jumped significantly.

As far as we know, there was no real due diligence on this or, significantly, a study as to whether the Citrus Bowl made the most sense as a location. The joke circulating at the time was that someone from FCS whispered sweet nothings in Buddy’s ears and off we went.

What we know many years later is that is not an unreasonable, If joking, assessment of Buddy’s M.O. This is an administration that will never be accused of too much transparency.

Anyway, all that aside, it’s a reasonable question to ask if all this makes sense. There never seems to have been a process to objectively determine it. If everything is peachy keen, fine. If not, what alternatives should we explore? There is nothing to lose in asking the questions and may be much to gain.

Any reason to bulldoze Buddy...  

[spenser1058]

10 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Any reason to bulldoze Buddy...  

I know, he’s God - he can do no wrong, right?

We’ve discovered, sort of like Pluto, it’s the Holy Quartet, not just the Trinity:

The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit and Buddy.

Edited January 1, 2020 by spenser1058

[FLClarkKent]

Proud Alabama grad, so of course I was at the Citrus Bowl today to see them beat Michigan.

I walked down Church to and from the game. My anecdotal observation was that street level activity was quieter than what I’ve seen when there are events at the Amway. Not a ghost town, but not packed.

Of course, the stadium is quite a bit further away than the Amway. And there’s not much there for folks to enjoy (although the brewery and Stonewall were hopping).

In a few years, I can definitely see that part of town taking off.

For now, though, it seems that the bulk of bowl game attendees are tourists, and they’re staying in the tourist district. When the game is over, most  head back to their hotels. 

But more than a few were also filling up places like Ceviche, Mary’s, Wahlburgers, all seemed busy enough (particularly for a Wednesday night).

There’s a ton of potential for this area. 

[orange87]

Did they pave the parking lots yet? I went to Camping World Stadium for the last Pro Bowl and the rain turned the dirt parking lots into ankle high fields of mud.

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

I know, he’s God - he can do no wrong, right?

We’ve discovered, sort of like Pluto, it’s the Holy Quartet, not just the Trinity:

The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit and Buddy.

Not at all.

But he's done a lot for downtown development.

Everyone here at UPO talks about how we want Orlando to become a world class city with a big league downtown.

Building our signature sports stadium ten miles down I-4 next to Sea World isn't going to foster that.

Not to mention the added expense that would've incurred over and above that of renovating and expanding a stadium and property we already owned.

Great job and stewardship by Hizzoner, the Buddster on the stadium issue.  

.

Edited January 2, 2020 by JFW657

[spenser1058]

2 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Not at all.

But he's done a lot for downtown development.

Everyone here at UPO talks about how we want Orlando to become a world class city with a big league downtown.

Building our signature sports stadium ten miles down I-4 next to Sea World isn't going to foster that.

Not to mention the added expense that would've incurred over and above that of renovating and expanding a stadium and property we already owned.

Great job and stewardship by Hizzoner, the Buddster on the stadium issue.  

.

However, we don’t know that it’s doing that now. Therein lies the point. It seems that most of the folks going to the bowl games are just driving in and driving out.

That was a perfect justification by this mayor for tearing down an arena <15 years old.

So which is it?

Keep in mind, I’m not saying we change anything tomorrow if this is correct. It should, however, make us think about any further investments in a facility that isn’t doing what we assumed it was doing after that mantra was passed on for decades.

Not to mention the affect on the neighborhood - is it the best environment for improving the area going forward?

There should be no assumptions - just the research that seems oddly lacking. It doesn’t matter who was right or wrong in the past - what’s the best way to go forward?

[JFW657]

44 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

However, we don’t know that it’s doing that now. Therein lies the point. It seems that most of the folks going to the bowl games are just driving in and driving out.

That was a perfect justification by this mayor for tearing down an arena <15 years old.

So which is it?

Keep in mind, I’m not saying we change anything tomorrow if this is correct. It should, however, make us think about any further investments in a facility that isn’t doing what we assumed it was doing after that mantra was passed on for decades.

Not to mention the affect on the neighborhood - is it the best environment for improving the area going forward?

There should be no assumptions - just the research that seems oddly lacking. It doesn’t matter who was right or wrong in the past - what’s the best way to go forward?

What is CWS not doing that we were told it would?

We were told that upgrading it would help insure that the major bowl games and other major sporting events like The Pro Bowl, would continue to be held there which would in turn, attract tens of thousands of extra visitors to greater Orlando where they would fill up hotel rooms and spend money at restaurants, bars and other businesses.

I don't remember ever hearing any promises about the stadium attracting those visitors to stay specifically in downtown hotels or about keeping them downtown after the games.

As far as I can see, the renovation is doing exactly what was promised.

Re: the arena, I don't know what it has to do with CWS, but to correct a minor point, the old arena was in business for 21 years.

As for the rest, the neighborhood has survived with a stadium there for decades and will continue to. Moving it to I-Drive wouldn't have made much if any difference. Plus, in making those kinds of decisions, a lot of different factors have to be weighed against each other. Of course the one that always carries the most weight is the cost/benefit. What costs the least and gives the maximum dollar return? Making the W. Church St and SOBT area nicer and more homey is a laudable goal, and worthy of some research, but how long you spend studying something like that, given time restrictions involved and how much money is involved, are two very important considerations.

When you have the continuation of a prestigious major sports event hanging in the balance and the people behind it want to see some kind of commitment, you don't have a lot of time to spend conducting studies and doing research on how a perennially depressed, low income neighborhood might be affected.

[orlandouprise]

I think a dedicated streetcar line (from DPAC to CWS)  is needed to carry visitors to and from CWS because it simply is TOO far from DT. Nobody is going to walk from CWS to DT to hit a few bars (there is not much else to do). I do think once the SED opens and Lincoln finishes and CV develops then it will help....but this is going to take years.

[JFW657]

2 hours ago, orlandouprise said:

I think a dedicated streetcar line (from DPAC to CWS)  is needed to carry visitors to and from CWS because it simply is TOO far from DT. Nobody is going to walk from CWS to DT to hit a few bars (there is not much else to do). I do think once the SED opens and Lincoln finishes and CV develops then it will help....but this is going to take years.

If not a streetcar line, which would cost a huge amount of money, involve a huge amount of construction and traffic disruption along Church Street, and is an idea that was proposed and abandoned for Magnolia back in the 80's or 90's, then some kind of free shuttle van or bus that would operate only on game and event days.

I thought something like that was already in place anyway. 

[FLClarkKent]

1 hour ago, JFW657 said:

If not a streetcar line, which would cost a huge amount of money, involve a huge amount of construction and traffic disruption along Church Street, and is an idea that was proposed and abandoned for Magnolia back in the 80's or 90's, then some kind of free shuttle van or bus that would operate only on game and event days.

I thought something like that was already in place anyway. 

They had a bus service running on game day. You could catch one at Amway.

[HankStrong]

Streetcars >>>>>> buses and vans any day of the week.

[spenser1058]

3 minutes ago, HankStrong said:

Streetcars >>>>>> buses and vans any day of the week.

@HankStrong has a crush on OSCAR!

[AndyPok1]

Yeah, the teams and families stay on I-Drive, but that's not all of the attendees.  I met numerous people who were renting AirBnBs or staying at the Embassy Suites downtown over the past week.  Tends to be adults without kids, whether that be the young 20s without or the married couple in the 50s with kids that have grown up.

And yes, all events at Citrus Bowl have a shuttle bus service that goes from Amway to the event.