Jump to content

Orlando Citrus Bowl Stadium [Renovation Completed]


jc_perez2003

Recommended Posts

Irrespective of how miserly the Magic contibution might be ? Or, put another way, at any cost ?

Dump the Citrus Bowl renovation and there is enough money for an arena and pac.

How many events come to the Citrus Bowl? 3, maybe 4. And all of these (with the exception of battle of the marching bands) are for out of town visitors. AKA tourists. These 3 venues are supposed to be for local citizens.

Edited by bulldogger
Link to comment
Share on other sites


Dump the Citrus Bowl renovation and there is enough money for an arena and pac.

How many events come to the Citrus Bowl? 3, maybe 4. And all of these (with the exception of battle of the marching bands) are for out of town visitors. AKA tourists. These 3 venues are supposed to be for local citizens.

Yes, but you and I both know they are not going to dump the Citrus Bowl. In fact, Scott Maxwell wrote that the commissioners were starry-eyed at the Citrus Bowl presentation, much more than with the PAC presentation.

What am I saying ? Should the heat be turned up on the city-county ? I'm saying that the heat should be turned up on the Magic if indeed they offer the rumored $43 million.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does anybody know what the Magic get for their contribution? Will they own a percentage of the building? Or more importantly, if they pay $43M up front (if that number is accurate) will they still have to pay a lease for using the building?

If they'd have to pay to use the building, why would the Magic "contribute" anything at all? They'd just be a tenant and it'd be like throwing money away. Now, if for their investment they'd get a percentage ownership in the building or a cut of other revenues generated by the building, I could see the business reason for them investing in it, but if this is just a pure donation and they're still going to have to pay rent, etc., if you look at it from a business perspective, what's in it for them to give anything other than the bare minimum?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does anybody know what the Magic get for their contribution? Will they own a percentage of the building? Or more importantly, if they pay $43M up front (if that number is accurate) will they still have to pay a lease for using the building?

If they'd have to pay to use the building, why would the Magic "contribute" anything at all? They'd just be a tenant and it'd be like throwing money away. Now, if for their investment they'd get a percentage ownership in the building or a cut of other revenues generated by the building, I could see the business reason for them investing in it, but if this is just a pure donation and they're still going to have to pay rent, etc., if you look at it from a business perspective, what's in it for them to give anything other than the bare minimum?

From what I understand, some of those things are subject to compromise. Maybe the Magic pay more, but they get a larger cut of the concessions.

As for the 43 million number being thrown around, if that turns out to be their offer then I say tell them good luck on I-Drive and keep the city's tax money here in the city.

The Magic should contribute something because no one else is saying their business model depends on a larger Arena and better skyboxes. Sure, it might attract more concerts or a bigger Disney on Ice show, but is that worth spending 400-500 million public dollars on? Of course they also agreed to cover any cost overruns, and they could be significant.

Edited by neon9
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Irrespective of how miserly the Magic contibution might be ? Or, put another way, at any cost ?

No, not at any cost. And the $43 million is not quite what I was expecting, if in fact true. I actually figured they would offer more in the line of upwards of $60 million, but I never figured they would offer the $80 mil number that was floating around.

I guess I am just resigned to the fact that in this day and age, these are the economics of pro sports. No professional team is going to fully fund their own arena. And while I may not agree with that, I also take into conisderation the intangible effects of the team leaving. And while many may not feel the same and could care less if the Magic leave town, I guarantee the financial cost will be greater in the long run because the city will spend more money to bring another team back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As for the 43 million number being thrown around, if that turns out to be their offer then I say tell them good luck on I-Drive and keep the city's tax money here in the city.

1) I think that is an opening minimum bid. They even said "depending on location" and I'd take that to mean I-Drive gets 43 and there would be more for downtown.

2) What city tax money? This is tourist tax not coming from the city or county. Since the increase has been approved what happens if they don't approve the projects .. then does all that new money just go to advertise Disney and Rosen? What a coup for the hotelers, approve the tax then fight the project ... puts the money right into their pockets sort of.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree, and totally see why the hotelers would want it on I-Drive, more money for them. But who is the arena really for? Anybody who is for the arena on Idrive does not really have the best interest of the CITY in mind.

I certainly didn't intend my post to suggest that the Arena go on I drive.... it was about the hotelers slick move to get all the benefit.

The hoteliers profit if the arena gets built near them, and they profit if it gets killed and they put all the new tax towards tourist advertising. But someone suggested that the city could save city taxes if the arena went to I-drive ... and I ask, what city taxes? So since the tax has been passed the options IMO are really these:

1) It goes to I-Drive ... hoteliers benefit

2) The project gets killed ... hoteliers benefit

3) It goes downtown ... and citizens benefit

Edited by cwetteland
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree, and totally see why the hotelers would want it on IDrive, more money for them. But who is the arena really for? Anybody who is for the arena on Idrive does not really have the best interest of the CITY in mind.

It remains to be seen whether the Magic have the best interests of the city in mind. IMO, the heat should be kept on them. Not the city. Not the county. And no the hoteliers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, the city of Orlando has to be a major part of the funding and approval for any arena to be built. And when the mayor of said city is saying things like he is, it's pretty obvious he (and the city commission) won't be part of any plan that doesn't include a downtown arena location. And without the city's involvement and funds, no arena will get built, period. I chalk this "controversy" up to local media trying to create a story that's actually a non-story. That's how they sell papers and get viewers.

Orlando Mayor Buddy Dyer told commissioners the tourism industry supports building all three venues downtown and downplayed talk of putting an arena near International Drive, stressing it's coming from developer Marc Watson alone.

"I don't think it has a whole lot of traction. At the end of the day, most of our community wants us to do this right, and that means putting all three of these venues downtown," Dyer said after the meeting.

Full article

Edited by camstrang
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know why everyone hates I-Drive so much.

I want the Arena in DT. But, as a worst case scenario, I-Drive is being revamped with enormous redevelopment which will give it way more amenities than DT ORL. Give it 2 years.

Actually, it already has more amenities than DT, save office space square footage. But once Blue Rose, Imagine, Prime redevelopment, the Point, Pointe Orlando, the multi-tower project at Belz, Hilton, Aquatica, and ... well, Peabody (no comment) get done, it will be incredible.

I-Drive IS "Orlando." If it isn't, then I don't know what is.

Like I said before, if they make the OCCC like GWCC, then do it. Otherwise, keep it DT.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know why everyone hates I-Drive so much.

I want the Arena in DT. But, as a worst case scenario, I-Drive is being revamped with enormous redevelopment which will give it way more amenities than DT ORL. Give it 2 years.

Actually, it already has more amenities than DT, save office space square footage. But once Blue Rose, Imagine, Prime redevelopment, the Point, Pointe Orlando, the multi-tower project at Belz, Hilton, Aquatica, and ... well, Peabody (no comment) get done, it will be incredible.

I-Drive IS "Orlando." If it isn't, then I don't know what is.

Like I said before, if they make the OCCC like GWCC, then do it. Otherwise, keep it DT.

Naw, even after all that it'll be fake unless they put vomit on the sidewalks and encourage panhandling. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know why everyone hates I-Drive so much.

I want the Arena in DT. But, as a worst case scenario, I-Drive is being revamped with enormous redevelopment which will give it way more amenities than DT ORL. Give it 2 years.

Actually, it already has more amenities than DT, save office space square footage. But once Blue Rose, Imagine, Prime redevelopment, the Point, Pointe Orlando, the multi-tower project at Belz, Hilton, Aquatica, and ... well, Peabody (no comment) get done, it will be incredible.

I-Drive IS "Orlando." If it isn't, then I don't know what is.

Like I said before, if they make the OCCC like GWCC, then do it. Otherwise, keep it DT.

I-Drive is a part of Orlando, no doubt. It's a tourist-centric, not resident-centric part of Orlando. It's a part of Orlando that we're trying to diversify beyond. And amenities are relative. I-Drive has tourist-centric amenities.

---

I-Drive = Ripley's.

Downtown = History Center.

I-Drive = SeaWorld.

Downtown = Lake Eola/Lake Ivanhoe (not as tight of a correlation, I realize)

I-Drive = convention/family-oriented hotels.

Downtown = the Grand Bohemian.

I-Drive = pale tourists in short shorts and 'football' jerseys running across 4 to 6 lane roads and getting trapped in big, grassy medians, while walking 1/2mile or more from one destination to the next.**

Downtown = business persons, residents, and some tourists too, enjoying an increasingly urban streetscape.

I-Drive = convention center.

Downtown = arena, performing arts, civic venues.

---

I think Orlando is great for having I-Drive, and I think most people on these boards would agree that it's an asset...but definitely not at the expense of downtown. Orlando's greatness will be defined by the success of both, not by one replacing the other.

**I really do enjoy the Brits ;)

Edited by uncreativeusername
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I-Drive is a part of Orlando, no doubt. It's a tourist-centric, not resident-centric part of Orlando. It's a part of Orlando that we're trying to diversify beyond. And amenities are relative. I-Drive has tourist-centric amenities.

---

I-Drive = Ripley's.

Downtown = History Center.

I-Drive = SeaWorld.

Downtown = Lake Eola/Lake Ivanhoe (not as tight of a correlation, I realize)

I-Drive = convention/family-oriented hotels.

Downtown = the Grand Bohemian.

I-Drive = tourists running across 4 to 6 lane roads and getting trapped in big, grassy medians, while walking 1/2mile or more from one destination to the next.

Downtown = business persons, residents, and some tourists too, enjoying an increasingly urban streetscape.

I-Drive = convention center.

Downtown = arena, performing arts, civic venues.

---

I think Orlando is great for having I-Drive, and I think most people on these boards would agree that it's an asset...but definitely not at the expense of downtown. Orlando's greatness will be defined by the success of both, not by one replacing the other.

WELL SAID! In the end i believe downtown will be a better place once all these towers and redevelopment happens. It will be a place were RESIDENTS go and I-DRIVE will just be where residents go to feel like tourist!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually, it already has more amenities than DT, save office space square footage. But once Blue Rose, Imagine, Prime redevelopment, the Point, Pointe Orlando, the multi-tower project at Belz, Hilton, Aquatica, and ... well, Peabody (no comment) get done, it will be incredible.

DT may get more hotels built in addition to the condos if these projects happen and we get more events than are currently scheduled.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I-Drive is a part of Orlando, no doubt. It's a tourist-centric, not resident-centric part of Orlando. It's a part of Orlando that we're trying to diversify beyond. And amenities are relative. I-Drive has tourist-centric amenities.

---

I-Drive = Ripley's.

Downtown = History Center.

I-Drive = SeaWorld.

Downtown = Lake Eola/Lake Ivanhoe (not as tight of a correlation, I realize)

I-Drive = convention/family-oriented hotels.

Downtown = the Grand Bohemian.

I-Drive = pale tourists in short shorts and 'football' jerseys running across 4 to 6 lane roads and getting trapped in big, grassy medians, while walking 1/2mile or more from one destination to the next.**

Downtown = business persons, residents, and some tourists too, enjoying an increasingly urban streetscape.

I-Drive = convention center.

Downtown = arena, performing arts, civic venues.

---

I think Orlando is great for having I-Drive, and I think most people on these boards would agree that it's an asset...but definitely not at the expense of downtown. Orlando's greatness will be defined by the success of both, not by one replacing the other.

**I really do enjoy the Brits ;)

You get it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can just see it now: Dyer kills the arena and UPers blame Crotty. ;)

I do believe it was you, in a much earlier post on a thread somewhere, that claimed the fate of the PAC, Arena and Citrus Bowl rested in the hands of Crotty.

Now why exactly would the biggest proponent of these three projects (Dyer) want to kill it? I don't follow or see how the comment is relevent. :unsure:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know why everyone hates I-Drive so much.

I want the Arena in DT. But, as a worst case scenario, I-Drive is being revamped with enormous redevelopment which will give it way more amenities than DT ORL. Give it 2 years.

Actually, it already has more amenities than DT, save office space square footage. But once Blue Rose, Imagine, Prime redevelopment, the Point, Pointe Orlando, the multi-tower project at Belz, Hilton, Aquatica, and ... well, Peabody (no comment) get done, it will be incredible.

I-Drive IS "Orlando." If it isn't, then I don't know what is.

Like I said before, if they make the OCCC like GWCC, then do it. Otherwise, keep it DT.

I don't think anyone "hates" I-Drive, it is more on principle that the arena remain downtown than anything related to that particular location. I would just as much hate the arena built in Millenia or Altamonte Springs.

And while I agree that I-Drive is Orlando, I wish those with an agenda would quit placing so much effort on distinguishing Orange County from Orlando (particularly with regards to the Convention Center and I-Drive corridor). It should be incorporated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do believe it was you, in a much earlier post on a thread somewhere, that claimed the fate of the PAC, Arena and Citrus Bowl rested in the hands of Crotty.

Now why exactly would the biggest proponent of these three projects (Dyer) want to kill it? I don't follow or see how the comment is relevent. :unsure:

Had you been paying attention, you would have seen referenced the notion of Dyer killing the project if it did not go downtown.

And Crotty can only do so much.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.