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Orlando Citrus Bowl Stadium [Renovation Completed]

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Jim Clark throws cold water on the whole thing in the latest issue of Orlando Magazine. In any case, it's refreshing to see persons other than Crotty singled out as obstructionists.

By the way, I tried www.orlandomagazine.com and that just gets you the Feb 2005 issue.

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\Buildings aren't being built downtown because of the Magic. Condos dont get built downtown because of the Magic. The cities population growth has nothing to do with the Magic. There are plenty of great truly urban cities that exist without a professional team. Furthermore, (cant believe im saying this) I believe this city city would benifit ten times more from a performaing arts center than a mediocre basketball team.

Riiiight, people would love to live downtown without entertainment options...The fact of the matter is there is an option now for entertainment for those who live downtown 41 nights a year. The condos might not be directly related to the Magic in anyway, but having a professional sports team avail gives people an exciting option and will ultimatley attract more people in the long run. Those condos just aren't going to sell themselves after awhile

Further, I am all for a new performing arts center, but how is that more benficial to the city? Ask the average resident how many times they have been to the Orena for a Magic game, compared to Bob Carr for a play or music show? I guarentee it would be very disproportionate.

Just my 2 cents...

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Riiiight, people would love to live downtown without entertainment options...The fact of the matter is there is an option now for entertainment for those who live downtown 41 nights a year. The condos might not be directly related to the Magic in anyway, but having a professional sports team avail gives people an exciting option and will ultimatley attract more people in the long run. Those condos just aren't going to sell themselves after awhile

Further, I am all for a new performing arts center, but how is that more benficial to the city? Ask the average resident how many times they have been to the Orena for a Magic game, compared to Bob Carr for a play or music show? I guarentee it would be very disproportionate.

Just my 2 cents...

You've just put your finger on the biggest obstacle facing this PAC/arena/Citrus Bowl rehab package. The PAC proponent may not want the arena. You're excited about the arena, but evidentally opposed to the PAC, etc.

But a lot of passion for each component will be necessary if any are to be realized, I suspect.

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Riiiight, people would love to live downtown without entertainment options...The fact of the matter is there is an option now for entertainment for those who live downtown 41 nights a year. The condos might not be directly related to the Magic in anyway, but having a professional sports team avail gives people an exciting option and will ultimatley attract more people in the long run. Those condos just aren't going to sell themselves after awhile

Further, I am all for a new performing arts center, but how is that more benficial to the city? Ask the average resident how many times they have been to the Orena for a Magic game, compared to Bob Carr for a play or music show? I guarentee it would be very disproportionate.

Just my 2 cents...

Point well taken, and I agree with most of what your saying. However, I dont believe that the Magic or the entertainment value of the Magic is enough to attract people in the short term or in the long run. I had a chance to make it to quite a few preseason games so far this year. Out of the ones that I saw, you know which one drew the biggest crowd? The Israely national team. 75% of the people were there to see them. Now those guys were passionate about their team. Were just not.

If the Magic get a new arena and stay in town, mark my words. In ten to fifteen years we will be dealing with the same exact issue. Because the one thing you and I have in common: we love the Magic, more than they love us. The Magic don't care about Orlando. There is no loyalty. Its all business. Period. I hate to take a pesimistic stand but thats reality.

In closing, while your polling the average fan about their attendance at a Magic game, ask them who they were there to see.

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... but evidentally opposed to the PAC, etc.

Magic fan said the exact opposite. He said he is all for the PAC. Don't attribute words to him he didn't say. That'd upset me something awful. Use his words, don't make them up.

You are right that it will take passion for each component, but every person doesn't have to be equally passionate about each component.

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Magic fan said the exact opposite. He said he is all for the PAC. Don't attribute words to him he didn't say. That'd upset me something awful. Use his words, don't make them up.

You are right that it will take passion for each component, but every person doesn't have to be equally passionate about each component.

My mistake. And please spare me the indignation.

Magicfan95 -

Sorry I misread your post.

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I forgive ya, Dale. You keep this forum on its toes and awake...which lately is well needed. You were just analyzing MagicFans comments. Which is what we all do here. :thumbsup:

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Finally someone with reason who reads all the words and not just the ones that suit certain people.

For our athletically challenged gaybourhood friends, the PAC is a nice thing to have so the high brows of Orlando can attend and be seen. For the rest of us regular folks, a good sporting event is much more exciting! When a "major" league hometeam is successful, it can bring a community together and elevate everyone's pride, even the people who never watch any Magic games, and especially our young kids. I am in agreement that the Magic need to do more to get better players and invest in the teams successful future, but don't put them down for God's sake, they are a for-profit organization. Is there anything going on downtown that isn't about money and profit? Do you think the highrises are going up just to keep this forum going? I don't think so.

You cannot quantify the Magic's value to our community in terms of $$$, but let me tell you that having a major sports team in a city affects a corporations decision to move their operations there and it helps in recruiting quality people from other major cities. So just because they are underperforming, don't undervalue their service to our community. Look at the White Sox in Chicago; it took them 85 yrs to win a championship, but the city and people of Chicago were always behind them even if they were terrible and despite the fact they also had the Chicago Cubs!

So while the residents of Thorton Park frequent the PAC, the rest of us O-towners will be more than happy to go to Parramore and support our Magic!

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Riiiight, people would love to live downtown without entertainment options...The fact of the matter is there is an option now for entertainment for those who live downtown 41 nights a year. The condos might not be directly related to the Magic in anyway, but having a professional sports team avail gives people an exciting option and will ultimatley attract more people in the long run. Those condos just aren't going to sell themselves after awhile

Further, I am all for a new performing arts center, but how is that more benficial to the city? Ask the average resident how many times they have been to the Orena for a Magic game, compared to Bob Carr for a play or music show? I guarentee it would be very disproportionate.

Just my 2 cents...

Perhaps, yet ask that same question in NYC and on average, it would probably tilt in the direction of the theater and arts. Further, with 40 million tourists a year, I suspect some of them, millions perhaps, would enjoy a night out to a musical or play if Orlando had an established, respectable art scene, much more so than a basketball team, as we already know now that few tourists could care less.

Finally someone with reason who reads all the words and not just the ones that suit certain people.

For our athletically challenged gaybourhood friends, the PAC is a nice thing to have so the high brows of Orlando can attend and be seen. For the rest of us regular folks, a good sporting event is much more exciting!

Del Greco, I'll challenge you to a match in just about any sport. Stereotypes are ignorant.

Edited by prahaboheme

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Why has everybody been snippy on here lately? Is it the lack of news or the abundance of bad news? Everybody lets all just get along. We have a nice forum going on here and occasionally we do have good debates. Everybody has the right to comment on all the current projects and news providing we follow the UP rules which isn't very hard. That what this forum is for! As for stereotypes go......they are both funny and stupid at the same time.........as long as you have thick skin. We have alot of different personalities on here and lets keep it real. :P

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Del Greco, I'll challenge you to a match in just about any sport. Stereotypes are ignorant.

:yahoo: See what I mean about not reading the entire post. It sounds like you are athletically gifted, therefore it wouldn't apply to you. If your are suggesting I am ignorant and stereotypical, I beg to differ with you. The use of the word "gaybourhood" is used frequently on this forum by many and thus I took the liberty to use it as well. I apologize if it was offensive in any way, especially since I am a firm believer of " live and let live.....vive e lascia vivere". I guess it must of struck a wrong chord! :whistling:

I hope you agreed with the rest of the post....

I read your whole post, and did not misread. That being said, walk around a "gayborhood" and you may be surprised to find that most who reside there are not athletically challenged.

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I read your whole post, and did not misread. That being said, walk around a "gayborhood" and you may be surprised to find that most who reside there are not athletically challenged.

I think you mean they are for the most part physically fit and not athletically gifted. OK, you are right and I admit I am wrong. The NBA, NFL, NHL, etc....are full of athletically gifted professional gay players!

Let's not dwell on sexual preference and try to focus on the topic of this forum. The interesting thing is that I agree with most of your posts and opinions, except this one. I definitely hit a chord! Let's agree to disagree and do our share to make Orlando a great place to live in.

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I think you mean they are for the most part physically fit and not athletically gifted. OK, you are right and I admit I am wrong. The NBA, NFL, NHL, etc....are full of athletically gifted professional gay players!

Let's not dwell on sexual preference and try to focus on the topic of this forum. The interesting thing is that I agree with most of your posts and opinions, except this one. I definitely hit a chord! Let's agree to disagree and do our share to make Orlando a great place to live in.

You didn't hit a chord, I don't play an instrument. ;) Further, I would wager to guess that the reasons gays are not in the nba, nfl, nhl, etc., are not physical reasons, rather societal. However, I don't care to delve deeper into this issue on this forum.

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Why has everybody been snippy on here lately? Is it the lack of news or the abundance of bad news? Everybody lets all just get along. We have a nice forum going on here and occasionally we do have good debates. Everybody has the right to comment on all the current projects and news providing we follow the UP rules which isn't very hard. That what this forum is for! As for stereotypes go......they are both funny and stupid at the same time.........as long as you have thick skin. We have alot of different personalities on here and lets keep it real. :P

I think the cancellation of Ridgely Manor hurt us more than we realized, wounded us deeply. Some of us had cast our deepest hopes and aspirations upon it.

Okay, that's hoakum. ;)

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Out of the ones that I saw, you know which one drew the biggest crowd? The Israeli national team. 75% of the people were there to see them. Now those guys were passionate about their team. Were just not.

Hmm... then maybe we can get Maccabi Tel-Aviv to borrow some of the team or franchise a Maccabi Orlando team. :lol: I heard this game was wicked crowded and wicked all around!

Oh yea, not to drag an issue, but seriously dude, let's not get stereotypical. I know a few gay guys who go to games and don't do plays and stuff like that. It's not personally offensive, just ignorantly annoying. Hell, I have a friend who loves Cirque du Soleil, loves sports and is straight. Even I don't like Cirque. So... yea, don't generalize.

Edited by WeNeed2Progress

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Mayors' staffers will study arts, sports projects

Mark Schlueb | Sentinel Staff Writer

Posted November 4, 2005, 11:01 AM EST

Orlando Mayor Buddy Dyer and Orange County Mayor Rich Crotty met this morning to talk about the need for a new performing arts center and basketball arena and upgrades to the Citrus Bowl.

The meeting came one week after former mayor Bill Frederick sent them a letter urging them to take greater leadership roles in the push for the arts and sports facilities.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/...-home-headlines

GO MAGIC!!

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No problem Dale

Perhaps, yet ask that same question in NYC and on average, it would probably tilt in the direction of the theater and arts. Further, with 40 million tourists a year, I suspect some of them, millions perhaps, would enjoy a night out to a musical or play if Orlando had an established, respectable art scene, much more so than a basketball team, as we already know now that few tourists could care less.

Del Greco, I'll challenge you to a match in just about any sport. Stereotypes are ignorant.

Praha, I will admit I may not be the biggest "arts" guy, but I do go to plays every now and then. Further, my brother is very active in the theater scene in the city. Bob Carr is a wee bit outdated and should be upgraded or rebuilt, lets not fool oursleves here. There is only one city in this country that people REALLy travel to to see a performance, and its NYC. Orlando will NEVER get that respect because Disney World/Universal casts the cartoonish look to the city.

I am in no way against a PAC, I just feel that we need to address what we have already before we go jumping into what we don't have (IE - Arena, Citrus Bowl, PAC in that order)

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There is only one city in this country that people REALLy travel to to see a performance, and its NYC. Orlando will NEVER get that respect because Disney World/Universal casts the cartoonish look to the city.

I would even dare to put Las Vegas right behind New York City as a show destination. Maybe not for a traditional play, but Las Vegas now has so many regularly scheduled concerts, arts performers (i.e. Cirque, Blue Man, Siegfried, etc.), magicians, and comedians that its shows are now one of its main draws. Who would have guessed that in Vegas' gangster haydays it would become such an artsy destination? It may be an unconventional way of bringing culture to a city, but at least those Vegas residents can take advantage of what their town provides.

Orlando is on its way to establishing itself as having a large local scene centered around downtown. As more gets built there, out-of-towners will begin to take notice that there is more to Orlando besides Disney and Universal, and city reviews will encourage visitors to go downtown to check out the great sights, shopping, arts venues, restaurants, and entertainment.

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Blah, Blah, Blah. It's all politics. Perhaps the city attended the same school as 55W. The school of talk a lot and say nothing. This thing is dead in the water. From the article it appears they won't even consider a final site plan until next fall when they determine the relevance of a county building as well. As far as the Magic, they summed it up well, "we want to know how long they plan on staying in the city". This is of course after they get a new facility. Ten years from now were going to have two empty facilities thanks to the Magic.

Still a fan, but sick of the bull$h!t. As far as the Citrus Bowl. Second class facility that won't have a single occupant after the contract expires with the bowl games.

Sorry bout the rant, its Monday.

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Agree with your cynicism as regards the Magic. For my money, field a better product, then maybe we talk arena.

Don't know how you get 'dead in the water' for the PAC though.

I also want to know how renovations to the Citrus Bowl went from $50 million to $175 million.

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Agree with your cynicism as regards the Magic. For my money, field a better product, then maybe we talk arena.

Don't know how you get 'dead in the water' for the PAC though.

I also want to know how renovations to the Citrus Bowl went from $50 million to $175 million.

The Magic have a lot of potential, but years of horrible general managing have screwwed them up. I think they are a playoff contender this year if Howard matures enough and Hill gets back on the court. They have a deep lineup, but they blew their first round pick on the Spaniard who never showwed up to play and now they are paying for it. The didnt even persue Shaq when he was a free agent, and he loves Orlando. Piss poor GM-ing. I really like them, but I dont think they will stay here long. If other sports had moved to the city and made this town more of a sports town then we could talk. Hell, Orlando is the biggest city without a pro-baseball team (AA, AAA, MLB)... No one really cares about Areana Football except cities without real football teams, and we are 2 hours one way and 1 1/2 the other from two good ones. But I dont think that public funds should pay for these facilities with the state of public schooling, that should be the focus. GO MAGIC!!! Just dont go away.

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