Orlando Citrus Bowl Stadium [Renovation Completed]

[cwetteland]

Rosen has considerable capital in Orange County.

Capital Schmapital. Why should that affect how much say he gets on where the taxes go? If I owned 100 7-11s should I get more say on where the sales tax from my stores go? No, that still falls to the elected officials.

[prahaboheme]

I never said it should affect anything.

[JRS1]

"AHHHHHHH---greeeeeeeeeeeed."

Not greed, reality. Orlando has one of the most grossly underfunded downtowns for a metro its size. If we want to reverse all the mistakes this city has made in such a short time, the future must lie solely in downtown. Let developers do what they want to the tourist areas (within restrictions) but there is simply no need to pump money into an area that can, and should sustain itself.

"You know, this CRA talk might disuade future developers from pursuing projects;"

How so? Look at the importance of the CRA in the past three years alone.

"Citrus Bowl, PAC, and O-Rena. at least they are downtown or close-in."

Just because we do, must we expect any less?

You misunderstood what I meant. "Agreed." not, "Ah, greed."

also, I also meant that those three projects are close in to downtown so it wouldn't be that far geographically from downtown if CRA funds were diverted to those projects

[prahaboheme]

gotcha.

[jack]

Received this a couple of miniutes ago.

Dear Downtown Stakeholder:

This coming Monday, May 8 from 10:00 to 11:00 a.m., Orlando Mayor Buddy Dyer has scheduled a special workshop for the members of the City Council.

As a community leader, we would like to invite you to attend this important presentation, which will take place in the Council Chambers in City Hall. Come catch the vision for what is happening in Downtown, hear a presentation on the extensive Downtown Master Planning process being conducted on behalf of the City, and learn how exciting opportunities such as community venues help make regional visions a reality.

[gumpking1]

As someone quoted in the Sentinel said (maybe Mel Martinez?), he has as much say as to how that money is spent as the manager of a 7-11 as to how their sales tax receipts are spent. Which ain't much.

I agree.Martinez is onour side and i understand he and Rosen or not allies.In fact they dontr like each other.Maybe Mel will help us out down here.

[Magicfan95]

Comparing Arenas

[UPSDAN]

I sit and wonder why the city and county would dump $150 Million into that piece of crap Citrus Bowl. Why not take that money and put it into something that would be a money maker and give the city a lot more recognition, like going after the Marlins. I know MLB wants to keep them in Florida. And no the Devil Rays are not to close to Orlando for this to happen. Baltimore and Washington are a lot closer then Orlando and St Pete....That would be an automatic 81 events per year for Orlando. They could even put it by the Convention ctr and then the county would dump tons of money at it...

[bic]

Here are a few reasons why:

-Orlando prefers basketball to baseball.

-The Magic cannot sell out a 17,000-seat arena 41 times a year. The smallest baseball stadium in the league is almost double the capacity, and there are about twice as many home games in a baseball season.

-Baseball requires the largest market size of any of the 4 major American sports.

-The Devil Rays is among the worst teams in baseball as far as fan support goes and draws from a larger market than an Orlando team would.

-The DC-Baltimore metro area is one of the largest in the nation at roughly 7 million while Tampa Bay-Orlando is roughly 4.5 million, a differance in population of 2.5 million, or the size of another Tampa Bay.

I think the biggest reason why I don't see baseball in our future is simply because Orlando is not much of a baseball town. It would sort of be like asking for an NHL team. Now football, on the other hand, I could see one day despite having teams in Tampa, Jacksonville, and Miami.

[UPSDAN]

Here are a few reasons why:

-Orlando prefers basketball to baseball.

-The Magic cannot sell out a 17,000-seat arena 41 times a year. The smallest baseball stadium in the league is almost double the capacity, and there are about twice as many home games in a baseball season.

-Baseball requires the largest market size of any of the 4 major American sports.

-The Devil Rays is among the worst teams in baseball as far as fan support goes and draws from a larger market than an Orlando team would.

-The DC-Baltimore metro area is one of the largest in the nation at roughly 7 million while Tampa Bay-Orlando is roughly 4.5 million, a differance in population of 2.5 million, or the size of another Tampa Bay.

I think the biggest reason why I don't see baseball in our future is simply because Orlando is not much of a baseball town. It would sort of be like asking for an NHL team. Now football, on the other hand, I could see one day despite having teams in Tampa, Jacksonville, and Miami.

-There is absolutly no fact to the point that Orlando is a basketball town as opposed to baseball. Of course they have the Magic but I would say there are just as many if not more Baseball fans in this area. The Magic are very much supported when they have a good product.

-As far as market size goes look at this. How many smaller markets already have baseball plus multiple other sport teams as opposed to Orlando.

RANK Designated Market Area (DMA) TV Homes % of US

1 New York 7,375,530 6.692

2 Los Angeles 5,536,430 5.023

3 Chicago 3,430,790 3.113

4 Philadelphia 2,925,560 2.654

5 Boston (Manchester) 2,375,310 2.155

6 San Francisco-Oak-San Jose 2,355,740 2.137

7 Dallas-Ft. Worth 2,336,140 2.120

8 Washington, DC (Hagrstwn) 2,252,550 2.044

9 Atlanta 2,097,220 1.903

10 Houston 1,938,670 1.759

11 Detroit 1,936,350 1.757

12 Tampa-St. Pete (Sarasota) 1,710,400 1.552

13 Seattle-Tacoma 1,701,950 1.544

14 Phoenix (Prescott) 1,660,430 1.507

15 Minneapolis-St. Paul 1,652,940 1.500

16 Cleveland-Akron (Canton) 1,541,780 1.399

17 Miami-Ft. Lauderdale 1,522,960 1.382

18 Denver 1,415,180 1.284

19 Sacramnto-Stkton-Modesto 1,345,820 1.221

20 Orlando-Daytona Bch-Melbrn 1,345,700 1.221

21 St. Louis 1,222,380 1.109

22 Pittsburgh 1,169,800 1.061

23 Portland, OR 1,099,890 0.998

24 Baltimore 1,089,220 0.988

25 Indianapolis 1,053,750 0.956

26 San Diego 1,026,160 0.931

27 Charlotte 1,020,130 0.926

28 Hartford & New Haven 1,013,350 0.919

29 Raleigh-Durham (Fayetvlle) 985,200 0.894

30 Nashville 927,500 0.842

31 Kansas City 903,540 0.820

32 Columbus, OH 890,770 0.808

33 Milwaukee 880,390 0.799

34 Cincinnati

-The Devil Rays attendance has nothing to do with the Market. It is due to poor stadium location, a team that has never won anything, and a poor stadium period. Tampa never drew people to Bucs games when they sucked as well..

-I realize DC/Baltimore is larger then Tampa/Orlando but they are not growing nearly as much.

-Now is the time to go after the Marlins. Football will not happen due to the other 3 teams in the state and I doubt Hockey will expand, they are already to big. Orlando can support another Pro team and it really is now or it would be decades away. The Marlins would be an easy catch right now...

[UPSDAN]

The 2 towns asking for the Marlins are San Antonio and Portland who have a lot smaller market then Orlando and both have basketball.

[demon]

I sit and wonder why the city and county would dump $150 Million into that piece of crap Citrus Bowl. Why not take that money and put it into something that would be a money maker and give the city a lot more recognition, like going after the Marlins. I know MLB wants to keep them in Florida. And no the Devil Rays are not to close to Orlando for this to happen. Baltimore and Washington are a lot closer then Orlando and St Pete....That would be an automatic 81 events per year for Orlando. They could even put it by the Convention ctr and then the county would dump tons of money at it...

I don't think Orlando will land the Marlins, it's just not going to happen. Personally I don't think the Marlins will leave So. Fla, the market is just too big. I think someone in So Fla will offer these guys a stadium and they'll stick around. I doubt MLB wants to loose that huge market.

I don't think there will be a baseball team in Orlando for some time. Tampa Bay struggles to draw fans & I think MLB relaizes putting a team in Orlando would mean the Orlando team & the Tampa Bay team would never be able to draw enough fans.

If Orlando was able to land a football team for a brand new Citrus Bowl, now that might be an interesting rivalry.

[Go Gators]

Here are a few reasons why:

-Orlando prefers basketball to baseball.

-The Devil Rays is among the worst teams in baseball as far as fan support goes and draws from a larger market than an Orlando team would.

I have to agree with UPSDAN. Orlando and Central Florida is considered one of the baseball capitols of the USA. Think about how many youth organizations there are in the area. Then add travel ball teams suchs as AAU and USSSA. IM sure these families would love to be able to catch a game on the weekends and weekdays in the summer.

Like UPSDAN said regarding the Rays. Its just like anything else, its all about location location location. A.) The Trop is a dump. B.) Who wants to drive from Orlando, Lakeland or wherever else all the way through Tampa, over the Bay, and down to St Pete to see a below average team? This stadium needs to be closer to downtown Tampa, or in the near vicinity of the I-4/I-75 interchange. If it were near the interchange, the Rays would open themselves to a whole new fan base. They would draw better from Polk, Osceola, Orange counties, because its only a 45 minute drive. I would be more willing to watch a below average team with a 45 minute drive then a below average team and a 2 hour drive.

[facilities man]

The Devil Rays also compete for attendance with all the minor league teams in the Bay area. No other MLB maket that I know of has five minor league teams within a 45 minute drive. Clearwater, Tampa, Sarasota, Dunedin, and Lakeland all have teams. Dunedin may only draw 500 a night, but I've been to the Clearwater Threshers stadium and they can draw a couple thousand people a night. Tampa is an oversaturated sports market for the metro areas size. Orlando could easily support baseball if it was the only sport in town, maybe even with the Magic, but they would not be able to afford to field a competitive team due to baseballs lack of true revenue sharing. Football would be a better match all around. Because of the fewer games it is actually the easiest sport for a city to support and the added benefits that would come with a new NFL stadium would really make it worth while, better college bowls, and without a doubt a superbowl or two.

Edited May 12, 2006 by facilities man

[pip]

I'm looking for an artists rendering that was floating around these boards a while back of the Arena/Stadium complex in Paramore.

Anyone have it handy, or where i can find it?

thanks.

Edited May 12, 2006 by pip

[JRS1]

That is some interesting statistics. Why don't they count Palm Beach for Miami?

[facilities man]

That is some interesting statistics. Why don't they count Palm Beach for Miami?

Palm Beach must be a separate market with it's own Network affiliates. Miami / Ft. Lauderdale shares the networks. I believe that's how it is determined for TV markets. That's why Orlando picks up the Deltona and Palm Bay metro areas even though they are not considered part of the Orlando metro area by the census people YET.

[pip]

I'm looking for an artists rendering that was floating around these boards a while back of the Arena/Stadium complex in Paramore.

Anyone have it handy, or where i can find it?

thanks.

nevermind.. answered my own question...

[Magicfan95]

What year is that from?

[Magicfan95]

There will be a moderated debate 5pm Tuesday on 740AM with Mike Bianchi and Mike Thomas. Should be good listening...

[JRS1]

Palm Beach must be a separate market with it's own Network affiliates. Miami / Ft. Lauderdale shares the networks. I believe that's how it is determined for TV markets. That's why Orlando picks up the Deltona and Palm Bay metro areas even though they are not considered part of the Orlando metro area by the census people YET.

so West Volusia isn't part of the 2M population figure for the metro? If that's so, ORL is larger than I anticipated.

On another note, did you all know that in Daytona, BCC's PAC seats 2,600 and was built less than 5 years ago? And Daytona just opened the News-Journal Center PAC this Jan., with 3 halls of its own? Bob Car seats around 2,600 and the Chapin Center 2,600 as well.

Tampa's PAC has 2,600 roughly in its main hall, with 1,100 in a 2nd hall and a few hundred in a 3rd hall. ORL metro may not have one center with all that, but also add the Tupperware Center with 2,000 seats (saw Harry Connick there) and there's a lot of venues in CFLA.

[bulldogger]

ORL metro may not have one center with all that, but also add the Tupperware Center with 2,000 seats (saw Harry Connick there) and there's a lot of venues in CFLA.

Do they still have concerts at Tupperware? It's been turned into a Performing Arts School, but not sure how much of the property has been retained by Tupperware.

[facilities man]

so West Volusia isn't part of the 2M population figure for the metro? If that's so, ORL is larger than I anticipated.

Correct. None of Volusia County is officially in the Orlando Metro census. Orlando metro is at 2,000,000 with only Orange, Seminole, Osceola, and Lake Counties. Orlando Metro should count all of Volusia, at least North Brevard and Northeast Polk as well. If it did you could add almost another 1,000,000 people. As the metro areas of Florida grow together this will become more of an issue. Where do you divide Polk between Tampa and Orlando? I'd say Winterhaven and everyhting East of that is linked to Orlando. Everything West of Winterhaven would be tied closer to Tampa. Volusia is clearly tied to Orlando, but the Deltona / Daytona metro includes Flagler County which is far from Orlando and almost relates more with Jax. I'm sure the people in Lakeland don't want their metro area carved up either. They'll want to retain their separate Polk County metro area. The 2010 census should be interesting. I've read where there's been discussions of dividing metro areas up by zip code instead of county lines. That would seem to make sense in Florida as more areas merge together.

Edited May 15, 2006 by facilities man

[JRS1]

Correct. None of Volusia County is officially in the Orlando Metro census. Orlando metro is at 2,000,000 with only Orange, Seminole, Osceola, and Lake Counties. Orlando Metro should count all of Volusia, at least North Brevard and Northeast Polk as well. If it did you could add almost another 1,000,000 people. As the metro areas of Florida grow together this will become more of an issue. Where do you divide Polk between Tampa and Orlando? I'd say Winterhaven and everyhting East of that is linked to Orlando. Everything West of Winterhaven would be tied closer to Tampa. Volusia is clearly tied to Orlando, but the Deltona / Daytona metro includes Flagler County which is far from Orlando and almost relates more with Jax. I'm sure the people in Lakeland don't want their metro area carved up either. They'll want to retain their separate Polk County metro area. The 2010 census should be interesting. I've read where there's been discussions of dividing metro areas up by zip code instead of county lines. That would seem to make sense in Florida as more areas merge together.

Ditto regarding Flagler-Volusia.

So, with West Volusia (which is reasonable), the metro should be right now 2.3M. Add in the NE Polk Co. population of Loughman to Poinciana (Polk-side) to Four Corners to Haines City and the US 27 corridor, which should be another 100K, then ORL metro is 2.4M as of now; right behind Tampa (Hills./Pin/Pasco) as things are today.

[pip]

What year is that from?

not sure.. first saw it posted on the boards here this past feb. its from the "dreaming" section of the scottarchitects website.

http://www.scottarchitects.com/portfolio/dreaming/index.htm