Orlando Citrus Bowl Stadium [Renovation Completed]

[RedStar25]

Ok so I have the latest on the PAC and FUMCO but I need to hold off from giving details for a few weeks. But there could be a major transformation in store for FUMCO and the surrounding area. Maybe even a highrise somewhere.... ta he he he

[Boomer136]

I think no matter what the intent, the PAC will be an icon. It's very size and proximity to the 408 means its going to get noticed. Plus, there is only so much you can do.

The primary building blocks are there, a stage house for the procenium theatre rising up a little over 100' and a pretty big footprint at a 40' height. Boxes that are the audience houses with ways to enter the differing levels that are accessed only through a pass point to control only ticket holders entering each performance space. The concert space probably will be the one room design that has proved so successful with the reverb chambers surrounding the space with the big wall slats that control the amount of reverb in the room. All of these need to be served by a loading dock, most likely a central dock where you can park 3-4 semi-trailers. You also have all the dressing rooms, production offices, equipment closets, and rehearsal/warm-up space. While there are a number of ways you can lay these out successfully, those successful designs all pretty much rhyme. Also all the talk I've heard has mentioned an outdoor performance space facing toward the plaza in front of city hall with plenty of room on the PAC property for a good sized audience which means you have a ready formed piazza.

The piazza and the fact that most PACs recently have treated the audience entrance areas with glass walls, I would be willing to bet that there will be lots of glass facing City Hall.

[spenser1058]

I think no matter what the intent, the PAC will be an icon. It's very size and proximity to the 408 means its going to get noticed. Plus, there is only so much you can do.

The primary building blocks are there, a stage house for the procenium theatre rising up a little over 100' and a pretty big footprint at a 40' height. Boxes that are the audience houses with ways to enter the differing levels that are accessed only through a pass point to control only ticket holders entering each performance space. The concert space probably will be the one room design that has proved so successful with the reverb chambers surrounding the space with the big wall slats that control the amount of reverb in the room. All of these need to be served by a loading dock, most likely a central dock where you can park 3-4 semi-trailers. You also have all the dressing rooms, production offices, equipment closets, and rehearsal/warm-up space. While there are a number of ways you can lay these out successfully, those successful designs all pretty much rhyme. Also all the talk I've heard has mentioned an outdoor performance space facing toward the plaza in front of city hall with plenty of room on the PAC property for a good sized audience which means you have a ready formed piazza.

The piazza and the fact that most PACs recently have treated the audience entrance areas with glass walls, I would be willing to bet that there will be lots of glass facing City Hall.

Boomer, you make an excellent point - the size of DPAC is definitely going to make a statement by virtue of its very size. And I think glass as an important component also emphasizes our outdoor space, which thanks to our climate is a good thing (well, after the last week, I might change my mind, but never mind :-). One of the things I like most about First Methodist is the openness of the facility - instead of a dark, dank sanctuary with stained glass windows throughout, the sides are clear glass. One thing that has puzzled me in recent years is the number of government buildings downtown that have chosen to totally ignore our history with citrus - have you ever wondered why there's not a single orange tree downtown anymore? This came to mind in a book I was reading about the sultan's palace in Constantinople (Istanbul), and the overwhelming fragrance from the fruit trees throughout the many gardens. Perhaps it's a maintenance issue, but it would be a great option if at least a few citrus trees could be incorporated in the design - especially given the name of the place.

[neon9]

Boomer, you make an excellent point - the size of DPAC is definitely going to make a statement by virtue of its very size. And I think glass as an important component also emphasizes our outdoor space, which thanks to our climate is a good thing (well, after the last week, I might change my mind, but never mind :-). One of the things I like most about First Methodist is the openness of the facility - instead of a dark, dank sanctuary with stained glass windows throughout, the sides are clear glass. One thing that has puzzled me in recent years is the number of government buildings downtown that have chosen to totally ignore our history with citrus - have you ever wondered why there's not a single orange tree downtown anymore? This came to mind in a book I was reading about the sultan's palace in Constantinople (Istanbul), and the overwhelming fragrance from the fruit trees throughout the many gardens. Perhaps it's a maintenance issue, but it would be a great option if at least a few citrus trees could be incorporated in the design - especially given the name of the place.

I betcha the city plants date palms, from the Middle East, instead.

Date palm picture

At least with oranges there's something for the homeless to eat.

Edited October 8, 2007 by neon9

[bulldogger]

I betcha the city plants date palms, from the Middle East, instead.

Date palm picture

At least with oranges there's something for the homeless to eat.

I think those are planted on Magnolia and the fruits fall all the time. They give off a very sweet smell and at the same time a fermenting smell. It's a love/hate thing for me. Regardless of the fruit and their smell, the trees are beautiful.

Also, you can find lime trees growing in different places in downtown. I think I have seen a few down near City Hall. Look at the large planters and you'll see them.

Edited October 8, 2007 by bulldogger

[spenser1058]

I think those are planted on Magnolia and the fruits fall all the time. They give off a very sweet smell and at the same time a fermenting smell. It's a love/hate thing for me. Regardless of the fruit and their smell, the trees are beautiful.

Also, you can find lime trees growing in different places in downtown. I think I have seen a few down near City Hall. Look at the large planters and you'll see them.

Thanks for the update - somehow I've missed them. I guess I'm spoiled for life from recalling entire groves (growing up, you encountered groves even in the close-in 'burbs). In '71, OC Commission Chairman Paul Pickett told National Geographic that "in 30 years the only orange tree you'll see around here will be in a museum." We thought he was crazy at the time but he was too conservative - the '83-'84 freezes followed by more in '88 pretty much took care of most of them as the land had become too valuable for development to replant and most of the industry migrated south toward Hendry County and such.

Pickett was definitely from the old-school anti-growthers (he also told the Geographic, "...no hard feelings, but I wish the Mouse had stayed in California,") and I had little use for such thinking growing up. Heaven knows we have access to things now we didn't back then. On the other hand, even I have been astounded by how overwhelming the growth has been.

[bulldogger]

I wandered upon a few orange trees in downtown a few years ago, so they may have been removed by now.

If you go up to Highland Avenue north of Colonial and make a right on Marks Street (at the traffic light at Lake Highland Prep School), you will find a private drive on the right side. It doesn't look like much, but on top of the hill there is a small yard full of orange trees that was probably once part of a large grove.

Edited October 8, 2007 by bulldogger

[shardoon]

sorry that i dont have the link from yesterday's newspaper. however, i was reading that mr greedy rosen has started to admit that his petition drive is losing steam and he is now trying to focus more on getting the petitions out via a website.

[RedStar25]

God wont this guy just give up already.

And how legit do you think a petition set up via the internet is going to be?

Give me a break....

[bic]

It helped to get Brian Hill fired.

[RedStar25]

It helped to get Brian Hill fired.

huh?

[bic]

...the online petition at firebrianhill.org.

[RedStar25]

oh

[bic]

Question for those in the know:

How long before we start to see renderings (or concepts) for the Perfoming Arts Center/New Arena?

[RedStar25]

Question for those in the know:

How long before we start to see renderings (or concepts) for the Perfoming Arts Center/New Arena?

Probably after a deal is made with First Methodist Orlando. There is the potential for a major change in the sites foot print.

[cwetteland]

Question for those in the know:

How long before we start to see renderings (or concepts) for the Perfoming Arts Center/New Arena?

The Arena will come way before the PAC. I read in the sentinel about a week after the county vote, that the Arena would break ground in about June or July next year. But he PAC would be about a year later. But who knows, maybe there will be early ideas floated on the PAC or maybe most of the delay is due to the interior complexity, accoustics and all that. Supposedly the PAC is supposed to be a 100-year venue which I'm guessing takes longer to design than a 30-year? venue.

[orlandonative]

There are no official renderings yet, just some basic massings along with feasability and impact reports.

My gut tells me that dirt will not be turned a moment before 4th quarter 2008. The financing package is very complicated so I would anticipate that there will be a dog and pony show just before the new year in order to lock in financing.

[wally2169]

There are no official renderings yet, just some basic massings along with feasability and impact reports.

My gut tells me that dirt will not be turned a moment before 4th quarter 2008. The financing package is very complicated so I would anticipate that there will be a dog and pony show just before the new year in order to lock in financing.

No dirt dug til end of 2008 is of course assuming Rosen and Guetzloe (aka, Media Crack Whores) don't find pull rabbits out of their hats anymore than they have tried

[bic]

Not starting until late 2008 and they want to have the new arena open in time for the start of the Magic's 2010-2011 season? So about 18 months of construction? Seems unlikely for this city.

[shardoon]

Not starting until late 2008 and they want to have the new arena open in time for the start of the Magic's 2010-2011 season? So about 18 months of construction? Seems unlikely for this city.

i think he was only talking about the PAC considering he was talking about creative financing (which only applies to the pac)

No dirt dug til end of 2008 is of course assuming Rosen and Guetzloe (aka, Media Crack Whores) don't find pull rabbits out of their hats anymore than they have tried

from the way rosen sounded when promoting his new petition website on o-sentinel..... things are not all rosey with his signature drive.

[lala67]

Those of us downtown don't have to question it either - we have everything we need to be a successful downtown already; because the region is growing, downtown will grow (government, the arts and "consumer" medical facilities will all grow as the region grows). What makes us unique, and will make people want to be a part of our community and visit us, is what we already have. Build upon our strengths based on our history, our traditions and as a very pleasant place to spend some time.

I totally agree. I often make the mistake by assuming everyone around the country should attempt to move closer to their downtowns. But it's dawned on me that Orlando's downtown is unique in ways because there are so many great neighborhoods skirting downtown. I live near SODO. My skids (stepkids) go to Boone High School. The Blankner School is right next to it, plus we have a neighborhood park and community center/pool. It's a great little neighborhood. Maybe it doesn't have the cache of Lancaster Park or College Park, but it works. We have gridded streets. Yes, I'd like more and I want things to improve, but I really like the unique community we have here. Our street is quite diverse, but nearly every other house has the original owner living there or their children now live there. Everyone comes out for Boone's home games. The neighborhood turned out for the homecoming parade last friday. It's a really unique place to live and raise a family. How many areas around central FL can kids go to school in the same area from K-12? How many truly neighborhood high schools are out there? Even Edgewater is separated from much of its neighborhood.

But beyond that, it's a great place to live as an empty nester, or a young single professional, etc. It's just a great place to live. My husband works on the east side of town. I work in Maitland, we actually improved both our commutes when we moved here from the Chickasaw Trail/Lee Vista area (tho I do miss my very short trip to the airport).

And we're just one of many great downtown neighborhoods .

I want a movie theater downtown in the worst way! Using Lynx as transportation is actually feasible in my neighborhood and it's only going to get better.

[spenser1058]

That sounds EXACTLY like the arguments people use up here when describing why they want to live out in the suburbs instead of in the city.

It's actually the best of both worlds and makes sense, especially for families. Because of the grids and close access to downtown, it has an urban feel about it while still having the quality schools families crave. Also, given the lakes and the historic nature of the houses (especially around Wadeview Park), it has a very unique feel about it that's awesome.

Given the very active community support (btw, close-in urban neighborhoods such as these are common to southern cities that experienced most of their growth after the development of the automobile), it would be much more a Robert Moses than a Jane Jacobs approach to try to alter them. Residents of these neighborhoods, while jealously guarding their property values, also tend to be more supportive of progressive urban politics than those in more heavily suburban, cul-de-sac areas.

[lala67]

another positive aspect is that kids are more independent. They can walk or ride a bike to the things they need to access. Too many kids living in more auto-oriented communities live out their existence being shuttled from place to place.

One of many arguments against living here is that the houses do lack a lot of the modern conveniences and size of new homes being built. We get 'you could've had a much bigger house for all the money you paid'. We gave up a few things for sure, but when our friends are kvetching about traffic and sprawl where they live, we just nod sympathetically and I admit feeling a little smug. Many of our friends were quite mystified by our choice. Even my husband was a little skeptical at first.

[Boomer136]

An argument that was presented to me, which made some sense that I would like the good and intelligent people of this forum to comment on.

First one of the presumptions is that the future of the Digital media Village is not as bright as one might suppose. I have always been skeptical of the village actually coming into being, so this may be a weakness of what follows.

Other key presumptions are that the new arena will be built and so will the PAC. BTW, another $1 million given by someone or other at the Marvin Hamlisch/OPO show this past weekend.

The basic idea is put the PAC somewhere on the site of the o-rena. Perhaps even renovate the arena into two theatres. Renovate the gym in the corner as black boxes or theatres for some of the small professional theatre companies in town. There are two theatres already in the parking garage on Hughey and Amelia. This would make a great theatre district. Keep the Carr operating, put a parking garage somewhere else on the arena footprint that during the day would provide business and UCF parking, and at night and weekends handle the cars for this theatre district. Restaurants, perhaps another hotel, placed around to let people make a night of it.

What do you think?

[facilities man]

An argument that was presented to me, which made some sense that I would like the good and intelligent people of this forum to comment on.

First one of the presumptions is that the future of the Digital media Village is not as bright as one might suppose. I have always been skeptical of the village actually coming into being, so this may be a weakness of what follows.

Other key presumptions are that the new arena will be built and so will the PAC. BTW, another $1 million given by someone or other at the Marvin Hamlisch/OPO show this past weekend.

The basic idea is put the PAC somewhere on the site of the o-rena. Perhaps even renovate the arena into two theatres. Renovate the gym in the corner as black boxes or theatres for some of the small professional theatre companies in town. There are two theatres already in the parking garage on Hughey and Amelia. This would make a great theatre district. Keep the Carr operating, put a parking garage somewhere else on the arena footprint that during the day would provide business and UCF parking, and at night and weekends handle the cars for this theatre district. Restaurants, perhaps another hotel, placed around to let people make a night of it.

What do you think?

That sounds way too logical. No one in government will ever go for it.