Orlando Citrus Bowl Stadium [Renovation Completed]

[Boomer136]

Regardless of the use the church will or will not put this incredible amount of money, it is still money that was raised for the PAC. I say again that all this trouble could be avoided and the money put to the use it was intended.

[RedStar25]

But This money was raised to do just this..... aquire this land so the PAC could move forward. The PAC needs to be in the core of Downtown not by the old arena.

[prahaboheme]

Some have stated that giving money to corporations to relocate to Orlando is a waste of money and point to Agere as an example. I happen to have benefited from a success story that I've never seen discussed but can be pointed to in the following document from the City of Orlando website (page 20):

http://www.cityoforlando.net/planning/dept...20July%2000.pdf

...with the city providing $5 million in incentives for Oracle to setup shop in Southeast Orlando. Oracle is now the second biggest software company in the world after Microsoft and have bought other companies recently like Peoplesoft, Seibel, JD Edwards, and are now looking to buy BEA Systems. On any given day, the Orlando center is providing classes for these software applications and providing support.

However, you could probably count on one hand the number of individuals working at Oracle that are living downtown. Since the center is close to the airport, most of the employee's are living in southeast Orlando in Vista Lakes, Waterford Lakes, and Avalon Park. The bulk of the jobs for biotech are going to go to Lake Nona, and the employee's that are working there will also live in the Lake Nona area. Financial incentives are good for metro-Orlando, so downtown does benefit, but indirectly.

I'm all in favor in luring big companies with financial incentives, but Oracle and Burnham are not feeding and providing shelter to the homeless downtown, they aren't going to the prisons to help individuals rebuild their lives, working with the churches in Parramore to assist their members with jobs, and teaching after-school programs at Howard Middle School to help the children living downtown to exceed.

Panhandling and crime in the city core is starting to become a problem. Building more prisons is only a band-aid to the problem. The churches downtown are working everyday to build up the lives of others living in the city to make it a more sustainable place to live because crime and panhandling make downtown Orlando weaker.

Nice read--though I was not suggesting the City lure these industries to the metro, rather provide financial incentives to locate downtown (obviously that was not made clear). Further, while a church may do its part to help a few thugs, crackheads or junkies get food and shelter, a city should in no way place their faith, or duty, in a religious organization to provide a social service. Again, $28 mil is a lot, if not downright excessive, for the land and the building they've acquired.

[bic]

Regardless of the use the church will or will not put this incredible amount of money, it is still money that was raised for the PAC. I say again that all this trouble could be avoided and the money put to the use it was intended.

^ but that's not to scale.

[Boomer136]

^ but that's not to scale.

Indeed, I am sorry, you are correct. First let me say I am not a image guy, however keeping the rear of the overlay where it is, the front should be at the tree in the middle of the circle in front of the Bob Carr. The top and bottom are almost correct, off by 20'. I get these numbers from my handy Google earth ruler which tells me that the plot of land everybody is so myoptic about is 900' by 450' (with some rounding up). This is comparable to the south parking lot area. Please check me.

As to where the PAC needs to be, I think the area of downtown that is 'the core' has plenty going on for it. The new arena will anchor the south side of downtown nicely. A true theatre district would draw bars and resturants north along Orange. Maybe someone will actually build something behind the bus station. The area around the arena is going to lie fallow. I don't believe the creative village thing is going to happen. I also think that UCF is going to bring their art and design college onto the main campus, leaving the old convention center empty. Some inducements, less 25million dollars, might bring the Shakespeare crowd out of, lets face it, the barely adequate space they have now, and if the condos that are being called the theatre district get built Mad Cow will be looking for space as well.

Theatre feeds off of theatre. What better advertising than to get your message in front of your target audience? When I was working on Teusday's with Morrie over at loch haven Park, the producer had our ushers hand out flyers to the crowd exiting King Lear. (Jokingly there was a thought of "You'll laugh, you'll cry, and only one guy dies.") But it increased traffic and word of mouth for that show.

Let's say you've just seen My Fair Lady on Friday night. What to do on Saturday? Well the talk you hear at the bar you stopped by after the show have some folks who just saw this great play over at the 'X'. And you see the posters for the other shows, and you are hanging around theatre people, including cast, crew, etc. Its an easy way for more people to become theatre fans that today is not easy.

The area around the proposed PCA site is built. The area around the o-rena is not and could use some renewal, which again I don't think the creative village will do by itself. It could become a creative village. Artists like to hang with artists. Galleries, studios. The space is there, not around city hall. And not at the price.

But I've said it before. Sorry for the rant, I'll go over and talk to my sliding glass door for a while now...

Edited December 2, 2007 by Boomer136

[mrh3]

Indeed, I am sorry, you are correct. First let me say I am not a image guy, however keeping the rear of the overlay where it is, the front should be at the tree in the middle of the circle in front of the Bob Carr. The top and bottom are almost correct, off by 20'. I get these numbers from my handy Google earth ruler which tells me that the plot of land everybody is so myoptic about is 900' by 450' (with some rounding up). This is comparable to the south parking lot area. Please check me.

As to where the PAC needs to be, I think the area of downtown that is 'the core' has plenty going on for it. The new arena will anchor the south side of downtown nicely. A true theatre district would draw bars and resturants north along Orange. Maybe someone will actually build something behind the bus station. The area around the arena is going to lie fallow. I don't believe the creative village thing is going to happen. I also think that UCF is going to bring their art and design college onto the main campus, leaving the old convention center empty. Some inducements, less 25million dollars, might bring the Shakespeare crowd out of, lets face it, the barely adequate space they have now, and if the condos that are being called the theatre district get built Mad Cow will be looking for space as well.

Theatre feeds off of theatre. What better advertising than to get your message in front of your target audience? When I was working on Teusday's with Morrie over at loch haven Park, the producer had our ushers hand out flyers to the crowd exiting King Lear. (Jokingly there was a thought of "You'll laugh, you'll cry, and only one guy dies.") But it increased traffic and word of mouth for that show.

Let's say you've just seen My Fair Lady on Friday night. What to do on Saturday? Well the talk you hear at the bar you stopped by after the show have some folks who just saw this great play over at the 'X'. And you see the posters for the other shows, and you are hanging around theatre people, including cast, crew, etc. Its an easy way for more people to become theatre fans that today is not easy.

The area around the proposed PCA site is built. The area around the o-rena is not and could use some renewal, which again I don't think the creative village will do by itself. It could become a creative village. Artists like to hang with artists. Galleries, studios. The space is there, not around city hall. And not at the price.

But I've said it before. Sorry for the rant, I'll go over and talk to my sliding glass door for a while now...

I understand where you are coming from Boomer, but I must ask you this: Don't you think Downtown Orlando is already diffuse enough? It's arguably one of the least dense CBD's in the nation and putting the PCA in the Centroplex would only exacerbate that problem. Think about it. In the area where its going, there are already multiple functions that will enable people to actually exit their vehicles and stroll around perhaps stopping a boutique, bar or restaurant along the way thereby increasing the overall urban experience for everyone. I understand the need to re-develop the Centroplex, but the PCA in that location just doesn't work in my opinion.

Edited December 3, 2007 by mrh3

[uncreativeusername]

I understand where you are coming from Boomer, but I must ask you this: Don't you think Downtown Orlando is already diffuse enough? It's arguably one of the least dense CBD's in the nation and putting the PCA in the Centroplex would only exacerbate that problem. Think about it. In the area where its going, there are already multiple functions that will enable people to actually exit their vehicles and stroll around perhaps stopping a boutique, bar or restaurant along the way thereby increasing the overall urban experience for everyone. I understand the need to re-develop the Centroplex, but the PCA in that location just doesn't work in my opinion.

I agree with this sentiment completely. Let's get a killer, undeniably happening core working, jiving and sustainable first, and downtown will grow out because it's an amazing destination, and more people will want to locate their businesses there. I see no reason to expand out until the core is as happening as it can be.

[jack]

$28 million is excessive but there is no choice. It would be cheaper to build OPAC at the Centroplex but it would not have an impact. The Creative may take years to take off, but that is okay. OPAc and the arena will have an immediate impact. Orlando has been talking about a PAC since the 80' and it still has not happened (and I will not be convinced until I see a shovel in the ground). The PAC at the Centrolex will not benefit downtown overall as the current site even though it costs more. Personally, I wish the Church rejects the offer and DPPAC builds around it. They have done a great job renovating their building and it is a shame to tear it down.

[bic]

Orlando Magic arena land deal gets approval

Orlando Sentinel Article

^ I think it's funny that before the new arena got approved it was always referred to as the "Events Center" and now that it's actually going to be built and the city keeps needing extra money to help fund it, it's being called the "Orlando Magic arena."

[RedStar25]

tick tock.... The Church Votes this time tomorrow.

[OrlandoMagic3]

How many sq ft was the entire lot?

Edited December 4, 2007 by PMWMagic

[FrigginGr8est]

tick tock.... The Church Votes this time tomorrow.

I hear Rosen just became Methodist and joined the church to vote against it.

[Boomer136]

I agree with this sentiment completely. Let's get a killer, undeniably happening core working, jiving and sustainable first, and downtown will grow out because it's an amazing destination, and more people will want to locate their businesses there. I see no reason to expand out until the core is as happening as it can be.

Yes I do think downtown is diffuse. But what will it look like in 2012, or 2020?

Yes I think people who attend events should go to bars and restaurants. I don

Edited December 4, 2007 by Boomer136

[facilities man]

Well said Boomer.

I think this hostage negotiated price from the church should be a kick start to re-look at the current arena sight for possible development of the OPAC there. That would be a huge positive to drop in Parramore. It would be a step in the right direction and just as reachable from the commuter rail station. What I fear is what could happen to the current arena sight when the new arena opens. With the Salvation Army high rises there and the number of homeless who already hang out at Lake Dot, that area could go down hill fast. It will need some infusion of public money or a public project, because what developer is going to buy and invest a lot of money next to the Salvation Army buildings and the people hanging out around them?

The OPAC would go well there, and build a new pedestrian friendly corridor down Terry Ave. to link up with Church and you'd really create some momentum in Parramore.

[jack]

Quite a few would invest in the centroplex site.

Edited December 4, 2007 by jack

[JRS1]

my take on DT is that once Ustler's bldg. goes across from 801, that will create another Sanctuary/101 Eola anchor that can be added onto little by little. DT now has continuous building along Orange more or less but could improve nortth of Jefferson; too many buildings with lack of retail the farther north you go.

I'm torn about the PAC site. putting it where O-Rena is would be aking to what Miami did, where the expressway overpass separates their PAC from the rest of DT.

THe best thing to do, hypothetically, would be to build it near Lake Eola aking to what Chicago did with their museums on Lake Michigan. Orlando did do that, up near Fla. Hospital.

If they did do that at Lake Dot, maybe they could expand the park some and border it with mixed use buildings. I don't know... Parramore is still too close to everything (the road).

[OrlandoMagic3]

Well said Boomer.

I think this hostage negotiated price from the church should be a kick start to re-look at the current arena sight for possible development of the OPAC there. That would be a huge positive to drop in Parramore. It would be a step in the right direction and just as reachable from the commuter rail station. What I fear is what could happen to the current arena sight when the new arena opens. With the Salvation Army high rises there and the number of homeless who already hang out at Lake Dot, that area could go down hill fast. It will need some infusion of public money or a public project, because what developer is going to buy and invest a lot of money next to the Salvation Army buildings and the people hanging out around them?

The OPAC would go well there, and build a new pedestrian friendly corridor down Terry Ave. to link up with Church and you'd really create some momentum in Parramore.

they are suppose to be building a park around Terry and church... (right next to the hughes supply). thats what I heard a year ago. Don't know if there is any truth to it though.

[facilities man]

Quite a few would invest in the centroplex site.

Examples please....

[jack]

I mean the different companies that have put together teams that plan on bidding ont he site next year. Of course just because they have plans, does not mean that they will actually bid on it. Apparently the price tag does not scare them.

[OrlandoMagic3]

Examples please....

MJ

[bulldogger]

I thought I heard CNL might be interested as well.

[neon9]

MJ

Michael Jackson?

[OrlandoMagic3]

Michael Jackson?

magic johnson was suppose to be 'investing' 90 mil around the area?

[bulldogger]

I thought it was Michael Jordan and he was going to be putting in a sports gambling arena.

[OrlandoMagic3]

I thought it was Michael Jordan and he was going to be putting in a sports gambling arena.

maybe on idrive