Orlando Citrus Bowl Stadium [Renovation Completed]

[cwetteland]

because government budgets are in crisis, and this is the project that has the least vocal constituents to report to with regard to progress would be my vote.

don't think I'd vote that way. Because of the bad dollar, Americans can't afford to go overseas ... they come here. Foreigners can't pass up the cheap deals, so they come here. The venues are tapping into the tourism pie and that pie is growing. Tourism is at record pace. If anything I'd guess funding is running well ahead of schedule. The renderings have been out ... so I'm betting that they start turning dirt right after the up coming CAP ONE.

[GregoryMCSE]

I really hope the Citrus Bowl look actually like this.

I think this is an old rendering from when they were trying to get the venues passed. I also think this rendering reflects the original budget they were hoping to gety through. What was approved probably will not lead to such an impressive looking structure.

[jack]

The Architecture team was chosen not to long ago. I do not think they are behind schedule.

[tc01]

It should not be long until they unveil the design for the Citrus Bowl. I hope they keep the same design from the proposed picture.

Edited July 10, 2008 by tc01

[GregoryMCSE]

It should not be long until they unveil the design for the Citrus Bowl. I hope they keep the same design from the proposed picture.

Me too. Looks 1st class!

[RedStar25]

Pugh says Orlando arts center is on budget

Elizabeth Maupin {sodEmoji.|} Sentinel Staff Writer

July 12, 2008

ORLANDO - The $408 million Dr. P. Phillips Orlando Performing Arts Center project is on budget, board President Jim Pugh said Thursday, with construction costs estimated to be $260 million. Designers have added an additional 300-seat banquet hall to plans for the arts center, and Pugh said budget figures will allow for the multiform hall for symphony, opera and dance that designers have championed. That hall, expected to seat 1,754, will be one of three in the building, scheduled to open in 2012. Two new members will join the board of directors: Steven Chiang, president of EA Sports, and Carla Warlow, representing the Martin Andersen-Gracia Andersen Foundation

Notice how they discribe the main hall as "multiform for symphony, opera, and dance..." I thought there were going to be at least three differnt performance halls. I am very skeptical about "multiform halls". To me trying to be everything to everyone makes me think it will be less than outstanding. And unless they build a pipe organ on a giant rolling platform we aint gettin one.

Edited July 12, 2008 by RedStar25

[Boomer136]

^ Multiform means for acoustic performance. A couple of stagehands and a hydraulics engineer setting the main architectural components for orchestra, or opera (orchestra subdued for wimpy throats and space for tons of scenery), or ballet (orchestra up, clumpy shoe sounds diminished and lots of side light and upstage drops). Probably shoebox in overall design. This for performances again relying on the acoustic energy of the instruments and voices spread as evenly as possible to the audience with true reinforcement relegated to the interminable curtain speeches and backstage opera chorus (shhh, that doesn't happen you know).

Second hall, for reinforced sound, deader, groups expected to be amplified, like touring broadway and concerts. Probably fan type audience house. this for performances again relying on amplified sound spread as evenly as possible to the audience.

Third hall, probably shoebox, relying on subtle reinforcement to spread sound as evenly as possible for a smaller audience (300) and it seems to be proscenium in design so far rather than black box.

This being said, the 1754 acoustic hall would only be referred to as the 'main' hall by those associated with the phil, opera, or ballet. Others, such as producers, and yes sound engineers would designate the 2800 or so seat house, what we call 'roadhouse', as the 'main' theatre.

Personally, I think referencing 'acoustic hall', 'amplified hall' and 'small space' would be better and less controversial than 'main' and such. But you do as you like. And yes, I advocate a pipe organ for the acoustic hall.

Oh, and the banquet hall is probably an update to the 'rehearsal space' originally envisioned. At least stagehands won't be worrying about arts supporters wandering into a work call after they leave the post performance 'wag-the-ass' cocktail reception backstage.

Edited July 13, 2008 by Boomer136

[cwetteland]

Notice how they discribe the main hall as "multiform for symphony, opera, and dance..." I thought there were going to be at least three differnt performance halls.

I think you misread something. There are still three halls. The "multiform" hall is one of the three. According to the artilce, "That hall, expected to seat 1,754, will be one of three in the building."

[uncreativeusername]

^ Multiform means for acoustic performance. A couple of stagehands and a hydraulics engineer setting the main architectural components for orchestra, or opera (orchestra subdued for wimpy throats and space for tons of scenery), or ballet (orchestra up, clumpy shoe sounds diminished and lots of side light and upstage drops). Probably shoebox in overall design. This for performances again relying on the acoustic energy of the instruments and voices spread as evenly as possible to the audience with true reinforcement relegated to the interminable curtain speeches and backstage opera chorus (shhh, that doesn't happen you know).

Second hall, for reinforced sound, deader, groups expected to be amplified, like touring broadway and concerts. Probably fan type audience house. this for performances again relying on amplified sound spread as evenly as possible to the audience.

Third hall, probably shoebox, relying on subtle reinforcement to spread sound as evenly as possible for a smaller audience (300) and it seems to be proscenium in design so far rather than black box.

This being said, the 1754 acoustic hall would only be referred to as the 'main' hall by those associated with the phil, opera, or ballet. Others, such as producers, and yes sound engineers would designate the 2800 or so seat house, what we call 'roadhouse', as the 'main' theatre.

Personally, I think referencing 'acoustic hall', 'amplified hall' and 'small space' would be better and less controversial than 'main' and such. But you do as you like. And yes, I advocate a pipe organ for the acoustic hall.

Oh, and the banquet hall is probably an update to the 'rehearsal space' originally envisioned. At least stagehands won't be worrying about arts supporters wandering into a work call after they leave the post performance 'wag-the-ass' cocktail reception backstage.

Problem with that is, while the opera and ballet are concerned with sets and movement of cast, orchestras are not. Shoebox design is intended for concert halls. For productions with sets, a fly and a recessed stage are necessary to facilitate the movement of cast & sets. Proscenium theaters are pretty standard for staged productions with sets and performers coming onto and leaving the stage. When the same space is converted into a concert hall, a fake shell has to be built to cover the fly and backstage access, to better project the sound into the hall - aka the Bob Carr. The better combination option is Miami's approach - a proscenium-opera house for opera, ballet, and Broadway-style staged productions, and a concert hall with a projecting stage for acoustical and amplified non-staged concert performances. There's still a little bit of multipurposing, in creating flexible acoustics in both halls for acoustic and amplified performances, but the Arscht center seems to have handled it well. The reason Orlando can't take this approach is because of the hall sizes - 1800 vs 2800. The local arts organizations' attendance projections all fall in line with the smaller hall, and as such, it is being multipurposed for quite divergent performance mediums.

Nevertheless, I'm not completely hopeless for DPAC. They seem to have a great team assembled, and new technologies and engineering makes things possible now that weren't possible before. Orlando could very well be the poster child for the future potential of muiltiform innovation.

[Boomer136]

Problem with that is, while the opera and ballet are concerned with sets and movement of cast, orchestras are not. Shoebox design is intended for concert halls. For productions with sets, a fly and a recessed stage are necessary to facilitate the movement of cast & sets. Proscenium theaters are pretty standard for staged productions with sets and performers coming onto and leaving the stage. When the same space is converted into a concert hall, a fake shell has to be built to cover the fly and backstage access, to better project the sound into the hall - aka the Bob Carr. The better combination option is Miami's approach - a proscenium-opera house for opera, ballet, and Broadway-style staged productions, and a concert hall with a projecting stage for acoustical and amplified non-staged concert performances. There's still a little bit of multipurposing, in creating flexible acoustics in both halls for acoustic and amplified performances, but the Arscht center seems to have handled it well. The reason Orlando can't take this approach is because of the hall sizes - 1800 vs 2800. The local arts organizations' attendance projections all fall in line with the smaller hall, and as such, it is being multipurposed for quite divergent performance mediums.

Nevertheless, I'm not completely hopeless for DPAC. They seem to have a great team assembled, and new technologies and engineering makes things possible now that weren't possible before. Orlando could very well be the poster child for the future potential of muiltiform innovation.

Shoebox referred to the audience house. Acoustic needs to be acoustic, amplified needs to be amplified. Both, all three really, should have a flyhouse. A proscenium opera house for the ballet and yes that probably means a shell for the orchestra to block off the fly house and wings, the multi in multi form along with walls, clouds, and resonating chambers and such. But the shape of the audience space not in a fan, multi balconies or loges, and try to keep the furthest seat from getting further away than 90' or so. Otherwise you'll get what we have now with the Carr, a space too dead for non-reinforced concerts, and difficult to hear in the back (135' from the downstage edge of the deck) with no pleasing first reflections.

[kracker]

It looks like things are picking up at the events center. They brought in some big equiptment a few days ago.

[tc01]

I am so glad Construction is under way!

Edited July 21, 2008 by tc01

[bulldogger]

hey mod: time to start a construction thread

is that a piledriver i see?

Edited July 21, 2008 by bulldogger

[mrh3]

hey mod: time to start a construction thread

is that a piledriver i see?

More super blocks!!! Just what Orlando needs...

[GregoryMCSE]

More super blocks!!! Just what Orlando needs...

Whats wrong with a super block?

From Wikipedia

Superblocks were popular during the early and mid-20th century, arising from modernist ideas in architecture and urban planning. A superblock is much larger than a traditional city block, with greater setback for buildings, and is typically bounded by widely spaced, high-speed, arterial or circulating routes rather than by local streets. Superblocks are generally associated with suburbs, planned cities, and the urban renewal of the mid-20th century; that is, in areas in which a street hierarchy has replaced the traditional grid. In a residential area of a suburb, the interior of the superblock is typically served by cul-de-sac roads.

Urban planner Clarence Perry argued for use of superblocks and related ideas in his "neighborhood unit" plan, which aimed to organize space in a way that is more pedestrian-friendly and provided open plazas and other space for residents to socialize.[2] In the 1930s, superblocks were often used in urban renewal public housing projects in American cities.[3] In using superblocks, housing projects aimed to eliminate back alleys, which were often associated with slum conditions.[3]

Superblocks are also used when functional units such as rail yards or housing projects are too big to fit in one block.

[prahaboheme]

^That is a very idealized view of superblocks but visit Midtown Manhattan and the Village on the same day and tell me which one you find more "pedestrian-friendly."

This is definitely a superblock but at least they left out a setback and plaza, which would surely get no use. Hopefully streetside retail will also help humanize things.

[bic]

More super blocks!!! Just what Orlando needs...

Tell me how you would construct a new urban arena in Downtown Orlando without making it a super block.

[codypet]

Speaking of superblocks, what's gonna happen to the old superblock er....Arena once this is completed.....surely they can't sell that to a developer now.....who would buy it without it turning into a 400 N. Orange type block.

[SuperMan11MS]

Speaking of superblocks, what's gonna happen to the old superblock er....Arena once this is completed.....surely they can't sell that to a developer now.....who would buy it without it turning into a 400 N. Orange type block.

Doubt that it will happen any time soon, but it was supposed to be bulldozed and replaced with a minor league baseball stadium.

[uncreativeusername]

Doubt that it will happen any time soon, but it was supposed to be bulldozed and replaced with a minor league baseball stadium.

...? That's one I never heard before.

[jack]

Anything can happen. And the Centroplex will be chopped up into many blocks.

[cwetteland]

Tell me how you would construct a new urban arena in Downtown Orlando without making it a super block.

Simple really ... put the fans on one block and the court on another block and connect them with closed circuit TV.

In fact you could just build it for the fans and beam the game from the Sportsplex in Maitland.

[facilities man]

...? That's one I never heard before.

The minor league baseball thing was just an offer made by the city where they would donate the land to anyone who would build their own minor league stadium. I think a couple people checked into it, but nothing solid. That would be a great use for that peice of land if you ask me, but no one did.

Watch for that property to be used as a pawn for St. Pete to get a new stadium for the Rays in the Tampa / St. Pete area.

Edited July 23, 2008 by facilities man

[GregoryMCSE]

Speaking of superblocks, what's gonna happen to the old superblock er....Arena once this is completed.....surely they can't sell that to a developer now.....who would buy it without it turning into a 400 N. Orange type block.

Bring back the Orlando Solar Bears!!!!!!

[mrh3]

Tell me how you would construct a new urban arena in Downtown Orlando without making it a super block.

Any one of those empty lots along Orange Ave. would have been a great way to use the project for urban infill and create good density. I just saw the Verizon Center in Downtown DC this past weekend and it fits in quite nicely in an existing entertaining core, or how about using the parking lot behind the Arena?

I'm not saying that this isn't a significant improvement over what was there and a boon to Parramore, I just hate to see the CBD continue its autocentric lay out. That's all.