Georgia Population Figures

[Spartan]

I want to thank those of you who have used more than anecdotal facts to support your claims. The debate that y'all are having is a very valid topic, and an interesting one too. But you won't win an argument based on who has more road projects and who has more Starbucks stores. Any DOT does not select its projects based solely on population.

Probably a good idea to establish as a ground rule that Wikipedia is NEVER to be cited as authority for ANYTHING. Since it is unregulated, way too easy to plant entirely false, misleading information on it and then tout it as "fact." When dealing with population and other statistics, should limit citation to census and other reliable sources.

We do not encourage using Wikipedia as your only source of information here on UP. In this day and age, any information can be found with the right about of research, especially regarding the built environment where most information is public domain anyway.

i'm tried of this discussion Macon has just as much exisiting, now under construction and future planned as Augusta the only thing that augusta has morer than Macon is people, there is no reason to contiune this never ending discussion..... Like i said the Us census is just estimates because according to the US census it doesn't even includes all the development what going on right now....

I expect you are tired, considering that you are the primary source of opposition here. The problem, as I stated above, is that you have good arguments, but you aren't backing them up with facts. If you will do a little legwork this discussion will become more than a pissing match, and it will educate many people about thieir cities.

[yerocal]

I've tried to stay out of the fight, so I'll just add a bit of non-inflammatory opinion.

I recently drove from Orlando to Atlanta, and obviously went through Macon. I took 75 through on the way up and 475 on the way down. Anyone from Augusta who thinks our highways (including new construction) are more "impressive" are wrong. Macon's highway infrastructure is much larger AND there are HUGE new projects going on. I'll also add that Savannah has a larger, more comprehensive highway network than Augusta, including the 520 expansion.

However, did I think this made Macon feel any more "big-city?"... Not at all. It's no coincidence that the larger, busier highway, and the major interchange improvements are benefiting I-475, the highway which bypasses Macon's core. The city has a LOT more thru-traffic. Wide highways and impressive interchanges mean NOTHING about the size of the city in many cases. The 2 new flyovers at the ends of I-520 aren't going to suddenly make Augusta appear more "big city," simply because the surroundings don't reflect that (mid-density suburban at the GA end and low-density suburban at the SC end).

If highway size were of ANY consideration, I'd have to conclude that metro Tifton on I-75 or the megalopolis of Woodbine on I-95 were larger cities than Augusta, since they lie on long stretches on 6-lane highway apart from any major cities, whereas I-20 through the Augusta metro is 4-lane the majority of time.

I'm so glad you decided to add your opinion, not saying that you are taking any side but to show that i'm not the only one who knows about the large road projects in Macon..... I know that it may be hard to see from my previous comments, but my reason for expressing development in Macon is not to say that Macon is better or has more than Augusta or Etc. It good to see all the 2nd tier cities growing eventhough i would to see Macon with the most, but it's good to know that atlanta is not the only city in Ga growing and i just wanted to let people know that your city is not the only thriving city in Ga... and right now the development going in Macon right is so impressive for a city of this size.... And with two cities the size of Macon & WR being so close and both experiencing so much growth(retail & residential) the area has no other choice but to feel like a more larger Metro..... Because people seem to look at Macon as if it's so far behind all the other 2nd tier cities which it not by a long shot..... Macon has lot of Attributes, which help it stand out like having the 2nd largest Mall and hosptial in Ga and largest faculity outside atlanta(centreplex)...

[yerocal]

I'm so glad you decided to add your opinion, not saying that you are taking any side but to show that i'm not the only one who knows about the large road projects in Macon..... I know that it may be hard to see from my previous comments, but my reason for expressing development in Macon is not to say that Macon is better or has more than Augusta or Etc. It good to see all the 2nd tier cities growing eventhough i would to see Macon with the most, but it's good to know that atlanta is not the only city in Ga growing and i just wanted to let people know that your city is not the only thriving city in Ga... and right now the development going in Macon right is so impressive for a city of this size.... And with two cities the size of Macon & WR being so close and both experiencing so much growth(retail & residential) the area has no other choice but to feel like a more larger Metro..... Because people seem to look at Macon as if it's so far behind all the other 2nd tier cities which it not by a long shot..... Macon has lot of Attributes, which help it stand out like having the 2nd largest Mall and hosptial in Ga and largest faculity outside atlanta(centreplex)...

This is the Current i-75/16 interchange DT Macon

This after it reconstruction project...

[augga706]

I dont think anybody from augusta said that macon doesn't have more interstate access now. But according to ga dot site when all the construction is done in bibb, richmond, chatham, and muscogee. Richmond county will have 3 more projects than the second closes bibb. Metro augusta will have 13 the second closes macon will have 11. There is more major transportation construction going on in metro augusta than any of the 2nd tier cities.

The facts are augusta has more planned projects by dot than any 2nd tier city. So all im saying is dot will be spending more money and doing more construction in augusta than every city in ga besides atlanta. Nobody said macon or savannah doesn't have a better interstate system now.

[mitchella81]

Augusta already has interchanges on its interstates just like macon. Dot is constructed them to have fly overs which are more likely to be seen in cities like atlanta, houston, or la.

You forget that alot of the major projects in ga go through richmond county

Bibb I-14

fall line freeway

Chatham I-3

Savannah river

Muscogee I-14

fall line

Richmond I-3

savannah river pkwy

fall line

I-14

Ga dot is already doing more construction this year in richmond than any county outside metro atlanta. So saying richmond county will be the most urban county outside atlanta is not a stretch.

Btw wikipedia and us census both give estimates. The us census doesn't use a special device or something that others sites don't use. They both are not exact just estimates

In addition to the projects you listed for Muscogee county there is also a strong possiblity that Interstate 185 is about to be linked from Columbus to near Tallahasse, Flordia at I-10. The state is doing all the studies now and many south Georgia counties & cities like Albany are pushing for it. This is probaly a real possiblity

[yerocal]

I dont think anybody from augusta said that macon doesn't have more interstate access now. But according to ga dot site when all the construction is done in bibb, richmond, chatham, and muscogee. Richmond county will have 3 more projects than the second closes bibb. Metro augusta will have 13 the second closes macon will have 11. There is more major transportation construction going on in metro augusta than any of the 2nd tier cities.

The facts are augusta has more planned projects by dot than any 2nd tier city. So all im saying is dot is spending more money and doing more construction in augusta than every city in ga besides atlanta. Nobody said macon or savannah doesn't have a better interstate system now.

Yeah that maybe true becasue the construction planned in macon is happening in different phases and at different times as opposed to augusta which is all going on at one time, but if you combine all of what's going on in macon and in the next 3-5 years augusta come no where near...

Well here is what Planned in Macon as far a road construction..... some has already started....

1. as you know about $300 millions huge I-16/75 interchange

2. the interchanges of 475/75 in north and south Macon is being reworked so for example if you are coming from the north on 475 you will be able to make a circle and merge back on 75 north without having to go down the hartley Rd. bridge exit and turn around and drive back up 75, you will then be able to just merge back on 75 from the interchange, so whats going to happen when completed is I-475 and 75 will make circle around north,west and south macon, leaving East Macon and DT connected by I-16....

3. Dot has planned to also build a large highway though south Macon/bibb county to relieve some to traffic being drawed by the new development.....

4. and the portion of 75 the runs parellel with riverside dr is going to be widen.....

And all of these road interchange projects in macon when complete will include fly over bridges....

[augga706]

Im sure dot has alot of smaller projects listed for every second tier city. But major construction projects are what dot is going by probably because the cost will be in the millions. If you check the website augusta has the most major projects planned or going on out of the 2nd tier cities. Dot doesn't list all the small projects throughout ga, only the ones who will be massive. Take it up with dot its their website they have richmond 7, bibb 4, muscogee 3, and chatham 2.

Metro augusta 13, metro macon 11, metro columbus 6, and metro savannah 6

All projects work in phases btw.

[j.midtown]

I totally 100 percent agree. I like to read Wikipedia...but you must always check the sources before you take anything that you find on that site at face value. And that shouldn't be your main source. The people at the Census Bureau get paid to do this and I would rather take their word than the word of someone who is just out to make their metro look good.

First, as an active and longtime Wikipedia editor, I can tell you that the standard for any information in an article that might be challenged or controversial, a reference to a reliable source must be provided and the enforcement of that standard is becoming more and more rigid. For articles on US jurisdictions, the US Census is the usual (99.9%) source for population numbers. Now, some those numbers can be subject to random vandalism, but for any major topic (city, state, etc.), there are a sufficient number of editors watching the articles that vandalism rarely goes uncaught for very long.

Second, remember, except for official data from collection years, off year population numbers are just estimates and are subject to influence from local jurisdications. I wasn't aware of this until a few months ago myself, but a locality can appeal/challenge the Census estimate/methodology - which happened, for example with Fulton County in 2004 and then the City of Atlanta in 2005 (seeing the Fulton Co. success) - to revise growth numbers upwards. This is why there are some substantial differences between current Census estimates for Atlanta and ARC estimates. Also remember, these local jurisdictions have motives to influence their numbers upwards since various federal funding allocations can be determined based on the Census estimates.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled arguments.

[jungletobacco]

With all that infrastructure why haven't Macon population out grow the other second rate city? Its all about the population growth at the end of the day. Columbus has way less interstate access than Macon and Augusta but will soon out grow both. Whats the hold Macon....Atlanta?

Augusta metro is over half a million but you're saying Macon has the same amount of retail and business? Augusta had two large malls in the 70s and the Regency Mall failed because it never attempted to compete with Augusta Mall. But Augusta will be getting its second mall or open-air-mall come 2009. I do think Macon should get the Airport that would relieve Atlanta in my opinion.

[yerocal]

With all that infrastructure why haven't Macon population out grow the other second rate city? Its all about the population growth at the end of the day. Columbus has way less interstate access than Macon and Augusta but will soon out grow both. Whats the hold Macon....Atlanta?

Augusta metro is over half a million but you're saying Macon has the same amount of retail and business? Augusta had two large malls in the 70s and the Regency Mall failed because it never attempted to compete with Augusta Mall. But Augusta will be getting its second mall or open-air-mall come 2009. I do think Macon should get the Airport that would relieve Atlanta in my opinion.

Macon is also getting a large 850-900,000 sqft open air mall which open in march of 2008.... and 6 other lifestyle centers in various parts of the city.....Indeed, I think macon will and should get the 2nd airport as well.....Macon's Metro pop is less than augusta but a big plus for Macon is that Macon is a huge economic hub for 22 counties in Mid ga which has a pop of over 650,000 and also from lots of people traveling from the interstates.... so it kind of balances out and make up for macon less pop ..... that why Macon can support so much development....but as far as who will out grow who we will just have to wait and see.... because it's too early to tell...

[augga706]

Top Ga metros

1. Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Marietta, GA MSA 5,138,223 Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Gainesville, GA-AL CSA 5,478,667

2. Augusta-Richmond County, GA-SC MSA 523,249

3. Savannah, GA MSA 320,013 Savannah-Hinesville-Fort Stewart, GA CSA 394,036

4. Columbus, GA-AL MSA 288,847 Columbus-Auburn-Opelika, GA-AL CSA 437,222

5. Macon, GA MSA 229,326 Macon-Warner Robins-Fort Valley, GA CSA 476,954

Augusta is the only large city in ga who doesn't have a CSA to boost its population. Augusta should form a CSA with columbia since their only 45 mins apart. It could be called Augusta-Columbia-Newberry, GA- SC CSA 1,264,782

[Topher1]

Augusta is the only large city in ga who doesn't have a CSA to boost its population. Augusta should form a CSA with columbia since their only 45 mins apart. It could be called Augusta-Columbia-Newberry, GA- SC CSA 1,264,782

Not happening anytime soon. Northeast Aiken and Southwest Lexington are about as sparsely populated as it gets in SC (I know very well because I lived in NE Aiken Co for 18 years). There's a vast void between the two urban areas that isn't growing rapidly. The majority of Aiken's growth is south (towards SRS) and west (towards Augusta). Lexington Co is rapidly growing, but it's still mostly focused towards Columbia. Although there are several thousand commuters from Aiken Co into metro Columbia (and vise-versa), it's a far cry from the numbers needed for a CSA...

I do think I would be cool to have a large regional identity along this part of the I-20 corridor, the same way upstate SC identifies with each other along I-85. Increased cooperation between Columbia and Augusta could only benefit both areas, specifically SRS + USC...

[ATLman1]

Top Ga metros

1. Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Marietta, GA MSA 5,138,223 Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Gainesville, GA-AL CSA 5,478,667

2. Augusta-Richmond County, GA-SC MSA 523,249

3. Savannah, GA MSA 320,013 Savannah-Hinesville-Fort Stewart, GA CSA 394,036

4. Columbus, GA-AL MSA 288,847 Columbus-Auburn-Opelika, GA-AL CSA 437,222

5. Macon, GA MSA 229,326 Macon-Warner Robins-Fort Valley, GA CSA 476,954

Augusta is the only large city in ga who doesn't have a CSA to boost its population. Augusta should form a CSA with columbia since their only 45 mins apart. It could be called Augusta-Columbia-Newberry, GA- SC CSA 1,264,782

Now thats a bit of a stretch. Columbia and Augusta are seperated by 80 miles of nothing. I drove that way back in May. It's over an hour between the two.

Anyone know why LaGrange is not in the Columbus/Auburn/Opelika CSA. LaGrange is only 30 miles north. If it was, that would bring an additional 63,000 people to the Columbus CSA. I see lots of Troup county tags in Columbus all of the time.

[gah]

Top Ga metros

1. Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Marietta, GA MSA 5,138,223 Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Gainesville, GA-AL CSA 5,478,667

2. Augusta-Richmond County, GA-SC MSA 523,249

3. Savannah, GA MSA 320,013 Savannah-Hinesville-Fort Stewart, GA CSA 394,036

4. Columbus, GA-AL MSA 288,847 Columbus-Auburn-Opelika, GA-AL CSA 437,222

5. Macon, GA MSA 229,326 Macon-Warner Robins-Fort Valley, GA CSA 476,954

Augusta is the only large city in ga who doesn't have a CSA to boost its population. Augusta should form a CSA with columbia since their only 45 mins apart. It could be called Augusta-Columbia-Newberry, GA- SC CSA 1,264,782

Where did these numbers come from? My info shows that estimated population of Macon-WR-FV CSA for 2006 is 381,801, almost 100,000 less.

The distinction between a CSA and MSA is not as dramatic as one might think. Actually there are some who believe a CSA is more desirable in that it involves two (or more) connected MSA's instead of just one central UA surrounded by suburban communities dependent (for the most part) on the city for jobs and shopping. A CSA may be (tho not necessarily is) more diverse economically, socially and culturally.

Suspect that we will see an Atlanta-Macon-Columbus CSA before we see Augusta and Columbia in a CSA.

[gah]

Anyone know why LaGrange is not in the Columbus/Auburn/Opelika CSA. LaGrange is only 30 miles north. If it was, that would bring an additional 63,000 people to the Columbus CSA. I see lots of Troup county tags in Columbus all of the time.

Lagrange is pretty much self-sufficient -- and will only become more so as KIA cranks up. Little need to commute to Columbus for jobs (tho my cousin's wife does). Most commuters are for shopping/entertainment which is sporatic commuting not consistent dependable traffic pattern. Unlike A-O which is adjoining Muscogee, Troup has Harris in between. Altho Harris is part of the MSA, there is little traffic into it from Troup since there are so few jobs in Harris.

I suspect that there will be a tug-of-war between Atlanta and Columbus over which gets Troup in its CSA. But for the near term foreseeable future I would think that KIA will have the effect of keeping Lagrange in the independent MSA camp.

[gah]

First, as an active and longtime Wikipedia editor, I can tell you that the standard for any information in an article that might be challenged or controversial, a reference to a reliable source must be provided and the enforcement of that standard is becoming more and more rigid. For articles on US jurisdictions, the US Census is the usual (99.9%) source for population numbers. Now, some those numbers can be subject to random vandalism, but for any major topic (city, state, etc.), there are a sufficient number of editors watching the articles that vandalism rarely goes uncaught for very long.

Second, remember, except for official data from collection years, off year population numbers are just estimates and are subject to influence from local jurisdications. I wasn't aware of this until a few months ago myself, but a locality can appeal/challenge the Census estimate/methodology - which happened, for example with Fulton County in 2004 and then the City of Atlanta in 2005 (seeing the Fulton Co. success) - to revise growth numbers upwards. This is why there are some substantial differences between current Census estimates for Atlanta and ARC estimates. Also remember, these local jurisdictions have motives to influence their numbers upwards since various federal funding allocations can be determined based on the Census estimates.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled arguments.

I dont think so. Take a look at the Wiki article on Macon. It contains (and has for a long time) the following "facts."

3d largest MSA in Ga behind Atlanta and Augusta. Actually 5th behind Savannah and Columbus as well

Macon-WR CSA had estimated pop of 476,000 in 2005. Actually it is 381,000 as of 2006

Macon-WR CSA composed of 13 counties. Actually as of 2006 it contained 7

Obviously, this information was supplied by someone who lied or who was subscribing to his or her own definition of MSA and CSA. Since it is easy enough to verify by consulting official census information, I have to wonder about the "editing" of info provided on the site.

[augga706]

Macon metro on some sites have diffrent counties, i guess thats why the numbers change

google had 15 counties for macon Baldwin, Bibb, Bleckley, Butts, Crawford, Dodge, Houston, Jasper, Jones , Laurens, Monroe, Peach, Pulaski, Twiggs, Wilkinson

yahoo had 18 counties for macon including dooly, wilcox, and i can't believe washington county who tags are in augusta everyday.

But Atlanta forming a CSA with columbus and macon before augusta and columbia form one. I don't know it will be close

Augusta airport to columbia airport 62 miles

Macon airport to atlanta 80 miles

Columbus airport to atlanta 83 miles

Atlanta is bigger but augusta and columbia are 18 miles closer

Gracewood, ga is its own city in south richmond why idk. In the 2010 census 12 to 15,000 ppl will be missing from augusta population more than likely. Tobacco rd/ hephzibah is the fastest growing part of richmond county, their are plans to build another middle school in the cross creek area very soon. Hephzibah just added 2 elementary schools 4 miles apart this yr

http://georgia.hometownlocator.com/GA/Richmond/Gracewood.cfm

[gah]

Macon metro on some sites have diffrent counties, i guess thats why the numbers change

google had 15 counties for macon Baldwin, Bibb, Bleckley, Butts, Crawford, Dodge, Houston, Jasper, Jones , Laurens, Monroe, Peach, Pulaski, Twiggs, Wilkinson

yahoo had 18 counties for macon including dooly, wilcox, and i can't believe washington county who tags are in augusta everyday.

You have identified the "problem." MSA (and CSA) is a term of art with a very precise definition. "Metro" or "metropolitan area" can be defined in any number of ways. It is highly misleading to cite a reference to population estimate for for a "metro" or "metropolitan area" as a population estimate for a MSA (CSA). If we are going to use MSA (and CSA) then we need to use it correctly so that we are playing on an objective and level field of reference.

[j.midtown]

I dont think so. Take a look at the Wiki article on Macon. It contains (and has for a long time) the following "facts."

3d largest MSA in Ga behind Atlanta and Augusta. Actually 5th behind Savannah and Columbus as well

Macon-WR CSA had estimated pop of 476,000 in 2005. Actually it is 381,000 as of 2006

Macon-WR CSA composed of 13 counties. Actually as of 2006 it contained 7

Obviously, this information was supplied by someone who lied or who was subscribing to his or her own definition of MSA and CSA. Since it is easy enough to verify by consulting official census information, I have to wonder about the "editing" of info provided on the site.

Did you fix it and supply the appropriate refs?

[gah]

Did you fix it and supply the appropriate refs?

of course not! I am not an editor nor do I care to police Wikipedia. I do not use it as a reference and, if I did, I would only be concerned that info regarding my own locale was accurate. What people say and chose to believe about Macon is of only marginal interest to me.

[Spartan]

^Anyone can edit Wikipedia. Thats why its both good and bad. If you add a fact you'd better be able to cite a source.

Does anyone have any economic figures on the second-tier metros?

It would be interesting to see how the cities compare economically. Macon, being the largest city in Middle Georgia and being well positioned with interstates and access to Atlanta, I-75, and I-16 with links to the Port of Savannah may actually rank higher than some of you think.

[gah]

^Anyone can edit Wikipedia. Thats why its both good and bad. If you add a fact you'd better be able to cite a source.

/quote]

Anyone can, but not everyone chooses to. I dont care to use it as a primary source, so I could not care less about wasting my time editing it. There are other reliable primary sources, so why correvt the myths and fables on Wiki?

The US Census site has economic info. You may find comparativeeconomic figures there (a better place to start than Wiki)

[socaguy]

Over an hour from Augusta to Columbia??? What were you going 55mph or something? Its always been, (and Ive traveled that stretch probably close to 100 times) about 50 minutes for me....and thats from West Augusta to DT Columbia. In all reality the 2 cities are about 70 miles but thats depending on where you are going. If you live in North Augusta and are heading to Lexington it may take about 45 minutes.

Its true though...there isnt much after you get outside of Aiken all the way to Lexington.

[augga706]

Most populated counties for GA's largest cities.(sc for augusta) (columbus for ala). Atlanta is the only city with 700,000 plus in 3 counties. Augusta is the only 2nd tier city with 100,000 in 3 counties. Atlanta has a huge lead on everybody and augusta's lead is comfortable to.

ATL Fulton county 960,009

http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/SAFFP...&_industry=

SAV Chatham County, 241,411

http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/SAFFP...&_industry=

AUG Richmond county 194,398

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/13/13245.html

COLU Muscogee County 188,660

http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/SAFFP...&_industry=

MAC Bibb county 154,903

http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/SAFFP...&_industry=

Suburbs

Gwinnett(atl) 757,104

Dekalb(atl) 723,602

Aiken (Aug) 151,800

Houston(macon)127,530

Lee County(columbus) 125,781

Columbia(aug)106,887

Liberty(sav) 62, 571

Russell(colu) 50, 085

Effingham(sav) 48, 954

Jones(mcn) 26, 973

[j.midtown]

Anyone can, but not everyone chooses to. I dont care to use it as a primary source, so I could not care less about wasting my time editing it. There are other reliable primary sources, so why correvt the myths and fables on Wiki?

The US Census site has economic info. You may find comparativeeconomic figures there (a better place to start than Wiki)

In the time it took you to post here complaining about the error you found on Wikipedia, you could have corrected it and helped the next person that came along. As it happens there are less "myths and fables" on Wikipedia than oh, say... this forum, where you choose to waste your time in a rather parochial argument about which city is the second, third, fourth largest in Georgia.