SouthPoint Mall

[sergpack]

I'm From Raleigh, travel to SouthPoint for service work once a week. Parking is terrible can they do anything about it? I only go to work and not for shopping, but that is really bad for that SouthPoint Custumers.

[StevenRocks]

They could certainly use some parking decks, but it's not likely they'll get any in the near future. The most desirable spots for one would mess up the aesthetics of the mall.

The easiest place to park at Southpoint is near Sears.

[DigitalSky]

Yeah the first time I went there in 2003 I was like Good God there's no parking

[orulz]

I wish Southpoint had been a bit more, um, urban, rather than following the "island in a sea" school of development. There are literally thousands of apartment units just down the street, but thanks to our friend the Sea of Parking it's too far and too dangerous to walk, so the people living there drive anyway.

They left two openings in the mall where pedestrians and automobiles can pass through. That makes me wonder whether they have plans to build it out into an urban village with more of a a street grid. Parking decks clad with more shops on the bottom floor and multi-story residences above. Wouldn't that be neat?

[ChiefJoJo]

I'm finishing up pinning the mall topics and surprisingly this was the only single topic I've found on Southpoint Mall, so let's continue the discussion here...

[ncwebguy]

I went to Southpoint for the first time in a while last Saturday. I know it was "easter eve" but it was super busy. Not "backups on I-40" busy, but the parking lot looked full from Fayetville Street. We thought the food court would have died down by 3, but it was about 80 percent full even then.

The backsides of the "street" are windowless (except Maggianos), so there could easily be more built there. But they don't really have to, since there are plenty of people shopping there already. The elevation difference between Fayetville Street and the mall itself would make a parking deck easy to install. Though with the amount of traffic already there, sacraficing enough surface parking for construction might be difficult.

The parking lot is kind of like a roach motel -- easy to get in, but hard to get out. There are mulitiple entry points off Fayetville Street, but only one *on* it. Also, there is only one intersection on the road that parallels 40 (Rennisance parkway?) that allows for left turns.

I thought I was smart in avoiding all of them and taking the Sears Autocare exit. But around 4:30, the line to get out there was backed up to the back side of the movie theater! Even though left turns are not allowed there! The problem is there is nothing to stop westbound traffic on the parkway. This was fine when the mall was first built, but with the Super Target and everything else further down the parkway, there is a good amount of westbound traffic that wants to be in the lane mall traffic merges into.

It would have been better if the big box area with the Target, etc. had some pedestrian link to the mall, but there is a natural area that severs this link. A pedestrian connection from the east side of Fayetville Street is almost impossible. Not sure if this was by design, but it destroys any notion of a "park once and walk" opportunity to shop.

Does anyone know what the 3-4 story building near Best Buy will contain? Offices? Apartments? Something else?

[durham_rtp]

I think the building you are talking about in front of Best Buy will be a new Hilton Garden Inn.

[NCMike1981]

I thought I would post a map of the layout of the mall for anyone interested...

[Gard]

Was just reading in the N&O that the owner of Southpoint is in financial trouble now and trying to stave off bankruptcy (he owes $900 million that is due to be paid Friday) because of 2 malls he owns in Vegas. Southpoint could very well get a new owner and lets hope its not the bank. Banks are notorious for repossessing a property such as a mall or apartment building and kicking all the tenants (which I think is absurd and bad business sense, considering they are a source of revenue and would minimize costs of owning it, not to mention making it more marketable to other investors with no work in getting tenants being required) down to shut it down, which could be devastating for the Durham economy.

Edit: forgot link-

http://www.newsobserver.com/business/story/1332208.html

[dmccall]

I doubt that a mall that is still attracting new, growing chains would be one that even bank guys would shut down. They'd probably just sell it to Simon.

[StevenRocks]

Anthropologie is coming!

[Gard]

FYI Southpoint owner, GGP, has filed for bankruptcy: http://www.ggp.com/Company/Pressreleases.aspx?prid=451

[101_ce]

I wa very impressed with this mall. This was the first time I have been to it. Parking was a little tough to find a place, but it was not so bad. The mall was full and surprisingly, Nordstrom was the most packed (probably because of their sale). They had $130 jeans marked down to just $70. Macy's did not appear to be very full though.

[StevenRocks]

I was at Southpoint today, too. Nordstrom, Hudson Belk and JCPenney seem to be busy most weekends, while Macy's and Sears never look busy.

[101_ce]

I was at Southpoint today, too. Nordstrom, Hudson Belk and JCPenney seem to be busy most weekends, while Macy's and Sears never look busy.

Macys did not look busy at all. Did not get around to the Sears side though. Its good to know that Nordstrom is busy. I was surprised with the brands at Nordies. It look like it would be in Charlotte. But then again, I have never been to the one at SouthPark.

[mallguy]

The Charlotte Nordstrom seems to have more expensive things in it.

Nordstroms seem to do a good amount of business- the ones I've been to generally seem busier than the other department stores in the mall- even other high-end ones.

[101_ce]

The Charlotte Nordstrom seems to have more expensive things in it.

Nordstroms seem to do a good amount of business- the ones I've been to generally seem busier than the other department stores in the mall- even other high-end ones.

Yeah. Its just that in malls like this, Sears and JCPenney tend to do better, but this is not the case. I was surprised to see Michael Kors and Marc Jacobs there.

[StevenRocks]

The Charlotte Nordstrom seems to have more expensive things in it.

Nordstrom seem to do a good amount of business- the ones I've been to generally seem busier than the other department stores in the mall- even other high-end ones.

Although the SouthPark store does more high-end business than Southpoint, both North Carolina Nordstrom stores do well.

[RaleighRob]

I was at Southpoint today, too. Nordstrom, Hudson Belk and JCPenney seem to be busy most weekends, while Macy's and Sears never look busy.

Since Durham has another Macy's and Sears (both at Northgate), I guess their business is more spread-out?

[101_ce]

Since Durham has another Macy's and Sears (both at Northgate), I guess their business is more spread-out?

Probably. However, I am sure that South Point gets more business than Northgate, so that may or may not be the case. Both stores (South Point and SouthPark) are probably very much alike. Same size, probably same brands. However, I am sure that Nordstrom SouthPark carries just a few more higher end brands or more of the higher end brands there.

[StevenRocks]

Since Durham has another Macy's and Sears (both at Northgate), I guess their business is more spread-out?

I'd say it is, and I think location and demographics has a lot to do with the individual stores' traffic. Northgate is not in a poor neighborhood, but it is generally less affluent than Southpoint's neighborhood. Sears at Northgate seems to do really well. I went there on a recent Saturday and the place was packed, not a usual sight at Sears these days. Macy's Northgate seems very lightly trafficked, as evidenced by the closing of its furniture department and the emptier, somewhat dated displays. I see the reverse at Southpoint. Sears is practically a ghost town some days, while Macy's does a little better traffic wise and seems more modern.

Probably. However, I am sure that South Point gets more business than Northgate, so that may or may not be the case. Both stores (South Point and SouthPark) are probably very much alike. Same size, probably same brands. However, I am sure that Nordstrom SouthPark carries just a few more higher end brands or more of the higher end brands there.

Southpoint does a lot more business dollar-wise than Northgate, but it's not like Northgate is a sales slouch, just a smaller mall in a poorer neighborhood. Northgate trends a little more local, less affluent and more urban and ethnic, while Southpoint is more upscale, less ethnic and more suburban, and favors national chains.

Nordstrom SouthPark carries more upscale merchandise than Nordstrom Southpoint because the market is there (and they're competing against flagship Belk and Dillard's stores along with Neiman Marcus) , but they're not especially different from one another. The shopping experience is very similar.

[RaleighRob]

Good points, though I disagree Northgate is necessarily in a "poorer" neighborhood, seeing as some of Durham's most sought-after neighborhoods (like Trinity Park, Watts-Hillandale, etc) are just south of it. However, like many people living in upscale urban areas, they probably do little mall shopping as opposed to say, a Ninth Street or downtown boutique.

The main difference is Southpoint depends on more than just Durham--a huge chunk of their business is via I-40, some to the east (Cary, Apex, Morrisville, Holly Springs) and to the west (Chapel Hill, Northern Chatham, etc). Most of Northgate's non-Durham business comes from lesser-affluent areas (like Roxboro, Butner, Creedmoor, etc)---probably explains the high traffic at Sears.

[NCMike1981]

^^^Plus the Northgate Sears is a bit of an institution, same location for 35-40 years, not a single exterior renovation since opening (although numerous interior ones), attached to a mall that has been ever so slowly dying/stagnant the past 7 years since Southpoint opened yet Sears is still packed. I think as long as Macy's sticks around Northgate will hold on, but alas that discussion is for the Northgate thread, where ever that may be lol.

[StevenRocks]

Nordstrom Rack, the off-price clearance store, is opening in Durham at Renaissance Centre, across from their full-line store in The Streets at Southpoint in fall 2010.

[RaleighRob]

^Wow, that's a good grab for Durham for sure.