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July 4th Riot

Seabreeze

By Seabreeze
in Charlotte

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peaceloveunderstanding Town

peaceloveunderstanding

Posted
Posted

I wonder what percentage of these white suburban kids that are doing these drugs and stuff listen to this 'gangsta' rap. I wonder if that can even be quantified.

I only question this because it is brought up so often that white suburban kids are the main consumers of this 'music', and clothing style.

National rates on subjects like this can be somewhat misleading as the percentages are quite different from region to region. The West has a teenage drug usage rate of several percentage points higher than the South or the Midwest. Statistics can prove whatever you want them to prove, we all know that.

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lupitachica Whistle-Stop

lupitachica

Posted
Posted

I wonder what percentage of these white suburban kids that are doing these drugs and stuff listen to this 'gangsta' rap. I wonder if that can even be quantified.

Are you really attempting to suggest that rappers (a majority of whom are black) are responsible for the moral demise of (predominately white) suburban children? Is that really where this is going? Wow.

Because it couldn't possibly be the blame of the the homelife, parents, communities and values promoted in in suburban middle class/uppermiddle class/upper class society?

Of course stats can be manipulated and used to promote a particular argument. But a general comment was made about the character & moral upbrining of the children attending these schools many of whom are black and poor - a comment that didn't limit itself to region. I commented on this backed with general information and stats that many people choose to ignore or disqualify. Nobody talks about manipulation, extenuating circumstances when speaking on the numbers about poor children but when the numbers paint a negative picture about others suddenly their meaningless?

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monsoon Gigalopolis

monsoon

Posted
Posted

Actually lupitachia, I've only mentioned that the riot was caused by students that were transported here from Charlotte. I made no statement about their background in regards to finances or race in being responsible for them causing the riot. What I did say was they were not being taught proper morals etc, by their parents and that was the root of the problem.

It was you in fact that introduced the idea that associated these students with being poor and black and that people are unfairly picking on these kids because of it. So I would say that you are guilty of the same racism (which has been implied here) that you are attributing to the rest of us here, society in general and the school system. You can't have it both ways.

You can grind that axe here, but it doesn't change the fact the police found it necessary to arrest 15 kids (14 from Charlotte) for breaking he law, attacking other students, and not having any respect for the authority figures in the school. It is my contention these kids have not had a proper upbringing and need to be removed from the school system. If they all happen to be Black and poor ( and I dont know ) then you can draw what ever conclusions you like, but it is irrelevant to how this problem should be dealt with.

Moonshield the stuff about the gangsta rap was pretty lame. Some people have always blamed pop music for deviant teenage behavior since rock & roll started in the 50s. Bad music does not cause bad behavior.

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peaceloveunderstanding Town

peaceloveunderstanding

Posted
Posted

EDIT:

I admit that was lame and low. I apologize.

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/13072977.htm More Fights, today.. this time at Vance High School

Vance is perhaps the most unfortunate case in CMS history.

I think it is this mandatory busing that causes much of the problems CMS has. It costs a great deal and leaves many schools underpopulated.

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lupitachica Whistle-Stop

lupitachica

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Posted

It was you in fact that introduced the idea that associated these students with being poor and black and that people are unfairly picking on these kids because of it.
This statement is blatantly untrue. Anyone can go back and reread this thread to see where race entered into the conversation.

Let's get this straight.

My original comments were about the television news coverage of the event and my feelings that I did not get enough details from it to draw a conclusion on what happened. Also, I did not presume that the police were justified in using tazers on the students. I never mentioned race at all and in fact had no clue as to the racial background of the students involved in the situation or of the police that responded.

At that point, a poster in his comments stated "what if a white kid had ended up dead?" That is what introduced race into the conversation and moved its direction towards white flight and the affects of race/segregation/economcis on the quality of schools in the CMS and in general.

Further into that discussion you,monsoon, said

"However the problems in the schools are not just a problem of mismanagement. As I have said earler, many students are not being taught proper morals, how to behave in public, and how to respect themselves and others. The result of this is the creation of a problem the any school district is ill equipped to deal with because it is taboo to discuss the reasons that have led to this situation in the first place. If any attempts are made to address the issue, then right off the bat we get charges of racism, and it goes downhill from there.

Being that its a given that the most troubled CMS schools are predominately black and a disproportionately large % of these black children are poor when you say that the "problems" of these schools are a result of many students "not being taught proper morals..." then you would seem (edit) to be making a statement about the home life of black and/or poor who make up a significant portion of the student body. For clarification, I specifically asked you to discuss the things which you claim are "taboo and you never directly responded.

All this is documented in this thread for all to see and that makes this conclusion "So I would say that you are guilty of the same racism (which has been implied here) that you are attributing to the rest of us here, society in general and the school system" a pretty strange one to draw. First, by using the term "the rest of us" you are presuming yourself to be part of one group and me an outsider attacking it. Which is interesting to say the least. And 2) you then suggest that I am saying that "your" entire group is racist - a claim I never made. Please don't put words in my mouth.

If this is not the forum to talk about the school system then the discussion can be moved to the appropriate thread and I will gladly comply any rules for discussion. But I would hope that anyone who joins this forum is considered part of the family.

I think it is this mandatory busing that causes much of the problems CMS has. It costs a great deal and leaves many schools underpopulated.
I agree that busing in many ways hurt students & parents, particularly from my perspective the black children it was intended to help.
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lupitachica Whistle-Stop

lupitachica

Posted
Posted

The article is very interesting but for me it raises more questions about the incident itself.

1) When it says "some of the kids were familar" to the CMS Dr. Ralph Taylor's office - out of 15 arrested are they talking about 3 were familiar or 10.

2) Why does the article say "ominously, however several sources at North said most of the kids arrested weren't the "real troublemakers". Why is that ominous?

3) Why are their no quoted comments from witnesses like other students, teachers and no quotes from the the arrested, their parents/guardians, etc? Much of the description of the details of the altercation btwn the police and the students seems to come from the police.

In regards to the school itself, how it is that it is even allowed that 3000 students are placed in a school meant to accommodate 1400?

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Mobuchu Burg

Mobuchu

Posted
Posted

http://www.wcnc.com/news/topstories/storie...k.431ad677.html

ANOTHER fight... this time with a FIRE!

Hmmm, a fight between two kids is only going to get media attention because of last weeks drama. Only two kids, no weapons - when I was in high school a teacher and a principal dragged you by the ear to his office and suspended you for a day. There may have been marijuana involved so the cops should be notified for that reason.

Next thing you know the media will say we need another Joe Clark in our schools to straighten them out. :blink:

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EastSideResider Whistle-Stop

EastSideResider

Posted
Posted

I was watching the news about a week ago and they reported that a elementary school student stole a candy bar from a teachers desk! (wow! a whole dollar! that's a HUGE deal!) But they didn't report a fight that resulted in a 17 year-old BOY being arrested at Butler because he punched a GIRL repeatedly in the face!! (The girl got sent to the hospital on a stretcher!! :shok: ) I see how the candy bar is much more important!

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lupitachica Whistle-Stop

lupitachica

Posted
Posted

Interesting article on the history of violence in schools. It talks specifically about the notion that schools and children were less violent or dangerous in the past.

Anyway, I think the coverage of these "fights" are a bit exaggerated but I'm sure it speaks to an overall fear of crime & the possibility of being victimized that seems overly high (imo) in Charlotte. That's not to say there isn't crime in Charlotte but I've noticed a sort of panic that, as a newly relocated person, I (and friends like me) just don't understand.

Whatever the case, I'm sure that believing the school environment to be dangerous doesn't help the students when it comes time to make decisions about how to interact with each other. What I perceive as a high amount of legal & illegal weapons and a glorified gun culture transforms the common school fight into a more potentially lethal situation. I think everyone is reacting with that in mind - ie the hysterical Huntersville parents searching for their children after the huge incident there. And its not just the adults, the kids are probably fearful too. Does every child that brings a weapon to school out to cause trouble or are some trying to protect themselves (the same way some women walk around with their concealed weapons on the Charlotte streets - just in case). Given that the teachers and guards seem to have little authority and/or personal incentive to step in do the kids trust these people to protect their safety - particularly when it becomes an us against them environment. It seems like a vicious cycle.

Don't really know what the solution is, because this is an age old problem. I do think there should be feedback from the children as their the ones who are having the most violence perpetrated on them by their peers.

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lupitachica Whistle-Stop

lupitachica

Posted
Posted

Information dating back to 99'.

I think its important to look at the role of the Charlotte news media in shaping perceptions about what is going on violence wise in the school system as well as in various communities. As I said before, I found a lot of the tv news programming severly giving facts and presenting the news in a fair and unbiased way. I suspect many if not most people get their information from watching the daily evening news at home and that can make the typical (a schoolyard fight) seem like an epidemic.

The number of school-associated violent deaths is small and not increasing. School-associated violent

deaths decreased 40% from 1998 to 1999, from 43 down to 26 in a population of 52 million American

students. In 1999, there was a one in 2 million chance of being killed in one of America

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cinco Burg

cinco

Posted
Posted

Not having so much to do with the July 4th incident in particular, but as I was walking around downtown this past Saturday morning I noticed someone decided to do a little destruction overnight on Tryon:

post-1-1132090821_thumb.jpg

yeah... that looks like the work of POWERWOLF or one of his minions.

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A2 Town

A2

Posted
Posted

Not having so much to do with the July 4th incident in particular, but as I was walking around downtown this past Saturday morning I noticed someone decided to do a little destruction overnight on Tryon:

post-1-1132090821_thumb.jpg

Whoa Neo !!! That is amazing. It is right at the Square. Usually there is a police presence there. To be totally honest I thought there was police present 24/7 since it is BofA's HQ.

A2

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lupitachica Whistle-Stop

lupitachica

Posted
Posted

I've been curious as to why all those ugly boxes are there in the first place? Is there a law against newstands and other sidewalk vendors? Is it because there isn't much foot traffic? I miss a good corner stand where you can get a paper, a pack of gum, maybe a cup of coffee and there's somebody to speak too.

As for the knocked over stands - maybe its the work of a rowdy drunk afterworker or an angry homeless dude. Who knows.

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Neo City

Neo

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Posted

As for the knocked over stands - maybe its the work of a rowdy drunk afterworker or an angry homeless dude. Who knows.

Something like this shouldn't have happened in the first place, not in front of BofA. You'd think being the headquarters from such a large bank that there would at least be security around 24/7 monitoring things like this. Homeland Security tax dollars hard at work. :rolleyes:

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