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TOP 20 !

A2

By A2
in Charlotte Coffee House

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A2 Town

A2

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Well Guys we finally nudged our way into the Top 20 for Ciity Population. Granted it is only a number, but it still feels pretty sweet !!!

B)

http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/co/?id=100185

I don't want this thread to really do anything. It for all practical puposes could have gone under an already existing topic, but for the sake of drawing attention to it I placed it in its own thread.

I am curious if you guys out there think that this will have any advantages now that we have made it to this level as far as population goes???

;)

A2

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A2 Town

A2

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cool.  What's our rank in terms of metro areas?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

From what I see we are ranked 35th for MSA. The chamber has us listed as 37th, but that was in 2002. I figured we have moved up a couple of slots to the 35th or 34th since we now have gained a bit of population since the census was taken. If you took the Metro Region (the 13 county Metro area, instead of the 6 counties currently listed) we would be @ 2.3+ Million we would catapult us to 20th largest Metro in the US. Basiscally the same size metro as Tampa. I have made comments on other threads about the MSA calculation and can not figure out for the life of me how some cities (ie Atlanta) can have MSA's that have 30+ counties and Charlotte doesn't even include counties like Iredale or Lancaster. If you can believe it they don't include Iredale (with cities like Moorseville and Cornelius that spill into the county) and they count Anson. ;) Anson might have 50K residents. I mean the county is literally 85% rural. I don't even know if I have met anyone who works in CLT that lives in Anson county, but five of the people I work with on my desk are from Moorseville area and live across the county line. Strange indeed.

http://www.charlottechamber.com/content.cf...content_id=1402

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UrbanSoutherner Whistle-Stop

UrbanSoutherner

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I have made comments on other threads about the MSA calculation and can not figure out for the life of me how some cities (ie Atlanta) can have MSA's that have 30+ counties and Charlotte doesn't even include counties like Iredale or Lancaster. If you can believe it they don't include Iredale (with cities like Moorseville and Cornelius that spill into the county) and they count Anson.  ;) Anson might have 50K residents. I mean the county is literally 85% rural. I don't even know if I have met anyone who works in CLT that lives in Anson county, but five of the people I work with on my desk are from Moorseville area and live across the county line. Strange indeed.

http://www.charlottechamber.com/content.cf...content_id=1402

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree that MSA definitions sometimes make no sense. I prefer to look at the urbanized areas stats to judge the size of a place myself. But for what it is worth, I think a county is generally included or not included based on commuting patterns between the county and the core county or counties in the MSA. This really has little to do with urbanization. So, if you have a essentially rural county on the outskirts of a MSA where over 25% of the workers in that rural county commute to the core county or counties of the MSA, it becomes part of the MSA. For example, tiny Calhoun County SC (population 15,000) is part of the Columbia SC MSA even though it is overwhelmingly rural. The point is that a lot of those rural folks work in Columbia. Being part of an MSA means that there are strong economic ties measured via commuting. Its says nothing about the development or urbanization of the county. I think MSAs are better at defining economic regions, but not urban regions (for that, use UAs). By the way, I think the difference between a county like Lancaster being in the MSA vs. CSA is the rate of commuting--25% minimum for MSA and 15% minimum for CSA.

On your Atlanta point, the 28 counties in metro Atlanta all meet the commuting requirements. But realize a couple of things. First, Atlanta is a larger region than Charlotte. Second, Georgia counties are geograpically very small compared with counties in the Carolinas. This all has to do with the way the state legislature was once apportioned in Georgia. It created a situation in which everybody wanted their own county, so you had very tiny counties created. For example, there are counties in south Georgia with fewer than 5,000 people.

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SmellyCat Burg

SmellyCat

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I know that and you know that, but when are the retailers gonna realize it? I'm talking about uptown of course - we have to be at or near 10,000 residents by now. I would hope that there would be an avalanche of sparkling fresh new street level retail stores opening up soon. My wish is for spring 2006.

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A2 Town

A2

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I know that and you know that, but when are the retailers gonna realize it?  I'm talking about uptown of course - we have to be at or near 10,000 residents by now.  I would hope that there would be an avalanche of sparkling fresh new street level retail stores opening up soon.  My wish is for spring 2006.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am right there with you SmellCat. I am thinking 06' as well for Major retail. I know that recently the rumor mill has been suggesting Saks uptown. On a side note I was watching the news last night and apparently Uptown is getting a Dance Studio. No biggie, but another item on the uptown wish list can be crossed off for those twinkle toes out there. :D

A2

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SmellyCat Burg

SmellyCat

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I am right there with you SmellCat. I am thinking 06' as well for Major retail. I know that recently the rumor mill has been suggesting Saks uptown. On a side note I was watching the news last night and apparently Uptown is getting a Dance Studio. No biggie, but another item on the uptown wish list can be crossed off for those twinkle toes out there. :D

A2

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not that there's anything wrong with that...

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A2 Town

A2

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I'm really surprised to see that Indianapolis is number 12. I was there recently and I thought it seemed much smaller than Charlotte. It also seemed pretty dead in many places.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is just city pop. Their (Indy's Metro) is actually a tad smaller than CLT. That is like Louisville being in the Top 20. It is all city limits. For example, you do not see Seattle, Atlanta, or even Boston in the Top 20 becase their core city pop is quite small. But, their Metro's, are quite large.

On a side note. Indy's city limits is 2x that of CLT. 950 sq miles as compare to CLT's 450.

Louisville is almost 1,000 square miles. If we were to have a 1,000 square mile city. Charlotte's population would swell to over a million. Putting it in the top 10. for city pop in the entire US. People often talk about CLT having a swollen population due to favorable annexation laws, but the reality is that Charlotte is quite average on the size scale. It encompasses roughly 2/3 of ONE county. So for all those who argue that this is the reason for CLT's huge swell in numbers are smoking something. ;) It is True growth in CLT. People are moveing here in droves.

It is all about how you measure.

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NorthStar Whistle-Stop

NorthStar

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On a side note. Indy's city limits is 2x that of CLT. 950 sq miles as compare to CLT's 450.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Indy is 361.5 sq. miles.

Louisville is almost 1,000 square miles.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Louisville is 62.1 sq. miles.

People often talk about CLT having a swollen population due to favorable annexation laws, but the reality is that Charlotte is quite average on the size scale. It encompasses roughly 2/3 of ONE county. So for all those who argue that this is the reason for CLT's huge swell in numbers are smoking something. ;)  It is True growth in CLT. People are moveing here in droves.

It is all about how you measure.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Charlotte's population and land size in 1990:

395,934 174.3sq. miles

Charlotte's population and land size in 2000:

540,828 242.3sq. miles

Charlotte's estimated population and land size in 2005:

594,359 280sq. miles.

Annexation has nothing to do with Charlotte's increased population? I think you're the one smoking something. If Minneapolis were to annex the amount of land that Charlotte covers, the city would be well over 1 million. Instead, it's at about 55sq. miles.

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atlrvr Metropolitan Area

atlrvr

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Louisville consolidated with the county a few years ago (minus a few towns I believe), and I know that the county is bigger than 62 sq. mi.

Charlotte's estimated 2005 pop. is pegged at 651,000 by city planners (if you want to go by census, they will peg the population at about 625,000 next year assuming they do include the annexation population that you included in your land areas)

The areas that Charlotte annexes are at just over 1,000 psm, while the overall population density holds constant (at 2200-2300 psm).....this would indicate to me, that natural increase in the existing city limits accounts for more of the growth than annexation does......if you want to go back and look at real numbers, you will find that about 65% of the growth is natural growth, and 35% is annexation.

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atlrvr Metropolitan Area

atlrvr

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I don't mean to make Charlotte sound overly dense, but instead I'm trying to point out that the city is filling in, rather than leapfrogging outward......not to worry NorthStar, Charlotte should run out of land to annex in either 2011 or 2013.

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A2 Town

A2

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Indy is 361.5 sq. miles.

Louisville is 62.1 sq. miles.

Charlotte's population and land size in 1990:

395,934 174.3sq. miles

Charlotte's population and land size in 2000:

540,828 242.3sq. miles

Charlotte's estimated population and land size in 2005:

594,359 280sq. miles.

Annexation has nothing to do with Charlotte's increased population?

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NorthStar Whistle-Stop

NorthStar

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I don't mean to make Charlotte sound overly dense, but instead I'm trying to point out that the city is filling in, rather than leapfrogging outward......not to worry NorthStar, Charlotte should run out of land to annex in either 2011 or 2013.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey. I'm all for annexation.

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NorthStar Whistle-Stop

NorthStar

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NS. Charlotte covers only 2/3's of ONE small county in NC.  Show your work. You are totally off about Louisville it used to be a city of only 250K. It jumped to over 700K by annexing another county (Jefferson). GET YOUR FACTS straight. It seems everytime I post you are just eager to bust my chops about something. Well on this one you are WAY off. For the record. I qouted Killometers. I should have qouted miles. My mistake. So here ya' go:

Louisville:

385

CLT:

174

INDY:

366

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, I forgot that Louisville annexed land along with plenty of people. Kinda skews things a little doesn't it?

From charmeck.org: Annexation has enabled Charlotte's land area to double since 1980, to 280 square miles as of June 30, 2005.

If you notice my post. I went into this argument in detail. No one is arguing that Minneapolis would be 1M. I certainly am not. For that matter The twin cities were not even brought up. There are plenty of Larger cities that don't make the cut. It is simply the city limits not Metro that  is being discussed in this post.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I brought in Minneapolis to show that ranking central cities by their population is pretty much worthless. I could have brought up any other city that has run out of room to grow as well, but I think you get the point.

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