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bobliocatt

3 options for new county courthouse announced

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http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stor..._19179227.shtml

Well we now have three options on the table, and best of all, the talk about staying in the old building on Bay Street has been eliminated because of concerns about wasting taxpayer dollars to renovate it. The three recommendations are:

1. $279 million - Build the entire building

2. $214 million - Build the entire building, but leave part of its interior unfinished until 2015. Then pay an estimated $79 million to complete it.

3. $181 million - Build part of the building and lay the foundation for future expansion. The second phase would cost anywhere from $79 million to $134 million, according to city documents.

* None of the options include $60 million already spent for the site and Cannon's plans.

It looks like the city would have been better off, just going ahead and building the original Cannon Design, which is now cheaper than all of the alternatives. :wacko:

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They should go either for 1 or 2,I would prefer 1...create additonal half cent tax to fund rest of projects.

If anyone complains should consider that value of your house and/or condo have gone at least 15% in one year alone,Take in account 190 is from 2000 actual value of courthouse would be in 320+ not 292,so I guess it is still cheap.

They will most likely screw up whole thing if ther leave "for later" or try to "mix" to fit that 190 milion.

By the way,are they taking in account sale of old courthouse into this?

What is actual value of current courthouse if it was sold today.

I am thinking they could get at least 40 mil based on JEA site and most likely more then that.

Then I dont see problem in building real courthouse with dome.

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As a taxpayer, I would not want another 1/2 cent sales, tax, that is what the original tax was for. Had other projects been held to the same fire as the courthouse, i.e. library (overbudget), roadways (overbudget) then maybe we could have something started by now. Yes the city would have been better off sticking with the Cannon Design plan, it defintiely would have been cheaper than any of the three options above. Yes, you need to take into account the 60 million already spent on misc stuff, but also factor in the time it has taken already - material costs are doing nothing but increasing folks, and not just because of oil prices. Concrete costs are through the roof now. Steel costs are starting to equalize a bit, drywall costs are increasing - need I go on. A question to ask is are these numbers building costs or project costs. There is a huge difference - building cost is what it would cost to build the building not including the all of the soft costs - consultants fees, furniture, any owner supplied fixtures and such, etc. Project costs is essentially the total project cost including all of the soft costs, contingencies, fees, etc.

One thing is true, a clear decision needs to be made and stuck with. The courthouse is the only project in the BJP that is mandated. All of this floundering and pulling back on the reigns does no one any good.

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Do it all now.

This reminds me the recent rounds of new football stadiums. We payed $120 million in '94 but a few years later, no one could get one built for under $300 million.

We already have $60 million into it, let's finish the job.

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This illustrates perfectly the incompetence of Peyton. Had he just had the balls to go ahead with the Cannon design from the start, we would be almost finished and under the proposed new prices. Now, we will likely get some ugly, half-assed, substandard building for more $$. Good work. I still think Peyton's daddy should throw the Mayor over his knee, give him a good spanking and make Peyton go apologize to Cannon and let them finish the job.

Pardon the use of crude language, but this issue really bothers me.

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^In a way, I can't blame Peyton for what he did. It's not like he woke up one day and said "I'm going to waste the taxpayers' money!". He did what he thought was best,

I guess, and made a mistake. People make mistakes, it's just some mistakes cost the cit alot of money lol.

I for one don't know what I would have done in his shoes, because back then, we had no idea it was going to become this. Meh, I'm done sticking up for him...

Please, Jacksonville, build the entire structure and free Bay Street from the civic clutches of old architecture!

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^ Riverside, I too disagree with the way the mayor handles some affairs..but please lets not get childish with it. Lets appreciate the fact that this fiasco is almost over and pretty soon two glorious glass and steel high-rises will be parked on bay street!! :D So give em' a break riverside, at least he's finally coming to his senses...

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La Florida: I am not behaving childishly, he was with his poor decision making and delay borne of weakness. And, I am not so certain that he will make the correct decision (or this panel which is just cover for him). By the way, whatever happened to Mayors making their own decisions??

Urban: I know I would have decided differently, because I said at the time that Peyton should go forward with the Cannon design immediately. Had he done as I urged, we would not be in this fix. It is always better to act than to be indecisive. Cut the Gordian Knot for God's sake.

NOTE: For those confused by my classical reference, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordian_Knot

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Okay, first off when I mentioned two high rises It was just wishful thinking..I hope thats what will replace the old courthouse building. Sorry, didnt mean to get any hopes up :blush: Second to clarify: If Peyton decides to go ahead with either option, I'll be happy its all over and looking forward to RFP's for the riverfront property. Im tired of the courthouse situation being in limbo and it finally looks like at least some progress is being made after weeks of silence....oh yeah riverside: thanks for the info on The Gordian Knot, u must've known i didnt know what the hell you were talking about. But its good to learn something new everyday. Great story too :thumbsup:

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I don't understand why Mayor Peyton did not proceed with the original plans, especially when he stressed how quickly associated costs were skyrocketing. The cost of land and building materials, especially, are highly improbable of decreasing to levels when the Better Jacksonville Plan was drafted. I fully supported the ambitious plan laid out by Mayor Delaney and gladly cast my vote of approval.

It's unfortunate that regardless of which plan of action he takes, the true cost will still exceed the greatest figure. Mayor Peyton discusses unforeseeable costs and overruns. How plausible is it to believe there won't be more unexpected hurdles to overcome as construction commences and nears completion?

I want to blame Mayor Peyton, but unfortunately the City of Jacksonville historically has taken an inordinate amount of time to make decisions. Committees are formed, councilmembers do not attend, committee members request more time to digest the information. This is essentially a breakdown because of inefficiency and, ironically, the ultimate victims are those who turned out to the polling stations to vote for a capital improvement project designed to enhance the quality of life. Instead, the City's inadequacies continue and we're stuck with smoke and mirrors.

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Personally, I feel like if we had an administration with any governmental experience, we would have cranes at the construction site.

Personally, I never liked the cannon design, however any design beats seven vacant blocks of land.

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