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Boston in Decline?


TheBostonian

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I have a similar reply on a different thread, but I will quickly outline what I know to be true about this story.

-Boston nightlife is a dismal failure at best

-The local community has a rough driving style that should be banned in NA

-For what you get, this place is over priced

-The salaries are okay, but need to be higher

-Outside of Cambridge/Boston, there isnt really any new 'Vancouver-style' development going up..

-Students, like myself, who are accustomed to cleaner and newer highrise residential will inevitably leave the 3-story houses in somerville for hk, vancouver and seattle..

-you guys need to face your fears and get out more often.. i haven't met so many locals in my life who "just went to nyc for the first time ever'" at 25 years old..

-another point about the culture that isnt attractive is the fact that we think its cool how you have your red sox loyalty, but leave it at the gym..its kind of blue-collar to dicuss the green monster at the office..

People are leaving Boston and here's where they are going:

-Seattle

-SF

-LA

-NYC

-Hong Kong

-Shanghai

-Dubai

-Vancouver

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I have a similar reply on a different thread, but I will quickly outline what I know to be true about this story.

-Boston nightlife is a dismal failure at best

-The local community has a rough driving style that should be banned in NA

-For what you get, this place is over priced

-The salaries are okay, but need to be higher

-Outside of Cambridge/Boston, there isnt really any new 'Vancouver-style' development going up..

-Students, like myself, who are accustomed to cleaner and newer highrise residential will inevitably leave the 3-story houses in somerville for hk, vancouver and seattle..

-you guys need to face your fears and get out more often.. i haven't met so many locals in my life who "just went to nyc for the first time ever'" at 25 years old..

-another point about the culture that isnt attractive is the fact that we think its cool how you have your red sox loyalty, but leave it at the gym..its kind of blue-collar to dicuss the green monster at the office..

People are leaving Boston and here's where they are going:

-Seattle

-SF

-LA

-NYC

-Hong Kong

-Shanghai

-Dubai

-Vancouver

Yah, I completely agree, Boston should abandon its culture so it can be more like HK. Give me a break! Get out of Boston if you hate what makes the city great (housing, sports culture, pride, etc.). Your arguments are weak at best. Scared of driving in Boston streets? Pitiful, go to Europe and you'll see. No 'Vancouver-stlye development' outside Boston? Well, usually when you get out of a city, you don't see as many of these developments, just in case you didn't know. Low salaries? Mass has one of the highest minimum wages in the country, not to mention to very well paying educational, research, and medical jobs all around Boston. Sheltered? I don't know who you were hanging out with, but BOS-NYC is one of the most heavily traveled routes in the country. Did you just pick a few random cities to list? SF is losing population every year, LA and Seattle are overrated, and I'd like to see the stats for how many Bostonians are really moving to HK, Shanghai, and Dubai. It's probably more people going the other way around. It sounds like your arguments are based froma first-glance look at Boston....I respect others opinions but please educate yourself on the place you're about to bash..

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I would suspect that given Boston's small city proper, the loss is largely due to gentrification replacing larger low income families with smaller more affluent families. There also is the larger context of the entire state losing population, correct? I know lots of people from Massachusetts and other northeastern states in Atlanta who left due to two reasons: more plentiful job opportunities and cheaper housing in the sunbelt. From what I have seen, I do not see how a non-trust funded 20-something could ever hope to own a home in a decent area in Boston. It is like you have to rent, become "house poor" such that you cannot enjoy living there, or leave.

You're dead on.

I left Boston at 22, and a year later I own a loft in Durham, NC (sans trust fund). The monthly payment on my 30-year mortgage is probably equal to the rent on a tiny one-bedroom apartment in Somerville.

But I miss my friends and family, so I'm hoping real estate prices in Boston drop so I can move back soon.

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Yah, I completely agree, Boston should abandon its culture so it can be more like HK. Give me a break! Get out of Boston if you hate what makes the city great (housing, sports culture, pride, etc.). Your arguments are weak at best. Scared of driving in Boston streets? Pitiful, go to Europe and you'll see. No 'Vancouver-stlye development' outside Boston? Well, usually when you get out of a city, you don't see as many of these developments, just in case you didn't know. Low salaries? Mass has one of the highest minimum wages in the country, not to mention to very well paying educational, research, and medical jobs all around Boston. Sheltered? I don't know who you were hanging out with, but BOS-NYC is one of the most heavily traveled routes in the country. Did you just pick a few random cities to list? SF is losing population every year, LA and Seattle are overrated, and I'd like to see the stats for how many Bostonians are really moving to HK, Shanghai, and Dubai. It's probably more people going the other way around. It sounds like your arguments are based froma first-glance look at Boston....I respect others opinions but please educate yourself on the place you're about to bash..

Just happened in on this thread, and mean no disrespect, but the only population SF is loosing are families, when four or five person households leave their flats and houses and are replaced by childless couples or highly-compensated geeks (single), the total population of the city does get reduced. The exodus of families has already crippled our hobbled, politicized school system, but the city's high-income, advance degreed population cohorts continue to grow.

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One of the funniest arguments I see made here again and again is

"People don't want to live here because it is too expensive." or something similar.

I understand there are a lot of young people on this board (like 18 and younger), so I can't expect everyone to have taken even a basic economics course. However, simple knowledge of supply and demand will tell you that if people don't want to live somewhere, the prices go down. People want to live in Boston, that's why it is expensive.

The problem comes when the city becomes a haven for the wealthy (see the SF post above this) and families are displaced due to price increases. These are important questions for city government, because without families you don't get a sustainable population.

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The problem comes when the city becomes a haven for the wealthy (see the SF post above this) and families are displaced due to price increases. These are important questions for city government, because without families you don't get a sustainable population.

That's an interesting point. While for generations Boston was very much a city of families and neighborhoods (and still is, in some parts) I think today the city is viewed as a place to go to college or find a high-paying job. More so than a place to raise a family anyway.

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  • 1 month later...

Oops!

Menino was right: Census estimate wrong, Hub gained population [The Boston Globe]

The bureau had earlier estimated Boston had lost some 30,000 residents between 2000 and 2005. But the new tally showed Boston gained about 7,500 residents during that period, increasing its population to an estimated 596,638.
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I think you all have good points here. I realize some of my comments are about a year late, but I think its still relevant. Keep in mind that this is from the point of view of a Southerner from SC :)

I recently visited Boston, and I loved it. I would move there in a minute. I have been to New York, and its a great city, but IMO Boston is better. New York is an insanely large city, and for this small city boy its too much. Its fun to visit, but I wouldn't want to stay. Not to mention the pretension that is associated with New Yorkers (maybe thats just a Southern perception) Boston on the other hand feels different. Its not as intimidating, and its not near as pretensious. People there will actually talk to you and treat you with respect. It is normal and unique at the same time. While I was there I saw on the news that they relocated a Union soldier from Virginia or something and they were doing a funeral with Civil War uniforms and what not. It was a very cool thing to see that its no different up North. We have similar cermonies for Confederate soldiers as they are found and relocated. Anway, I digress. During my visit I felt like I could easily have fit in there were it not for my camera and my accent. My point with all of this is that Boston sells itself. Its a fantastic city with a rich history. I think the simple fact that its NOT Now York will preserve Boston into the future. If nothing else, it has made me want to live there. Oh, and you guys have the Red Sox :)

One of the major points I wanted to address was your discussion on Southern density. You talk about Atlanta's lack of it, etc. And that is so true. But I think its important to recognize that the South is not the same place it has always been things are changing here, and people don't like commuting. Most people I know want to avoid Atlanta unless they can live downtown or inside the perimeter (I-285). The South in general is starting to recognize that density has its advantages. Even my home city of Spartanburg (which most of you have probably never heard of) just finished up a master plan for the CBD, and the #1 thing on the to do list was denser development in the core of the city. All of South Carolina's major cities are in the process of an urban revitalization as people want to move back into the city and not commute and drive all over the place. As the Fed opens up more funding for transportation new transit systems are being put in. Would you belive that SC is talking about rail transit? Its happening. The culture is still very car dominant to be sure, but that is true in every American city. Average people are beginning understand that suburbs and unchecked growth are not sustainable, and that is key. Leaders, planners, etc have been saying this for a while, but it takes time for this type of thing to sink in.

I also think Boston is an interesting parallel to Charleston, as Metro mentioned way back in this thread. Charleston has the type of urbanity and density that is not seen anywhere else in the South... and as a result it is being gentrified, and the average South Carolinian can't afford to live there. Wealthy Yankees are moving in and buying these downtown houses (which are still relatively cheap compared to the North) and only coming into town for festivals and vacations, so you get a lot of vacant, yet maintained properties. Also, the new units that are being constructed on the peninsula are all luxury/high end things. The middle and lower classes are being pushed further uptown and ultimately out to the suburbs by the ever rising housing market downtown (and Charleston's suburbs are arguably expensive as well). Its a very frustrating paradox that exists. Most people can't afford the urban areas that they would want to live in. The amount of space for the dollar is too small when you can live 10 minutes away on the other side of one of the rivers and have a house with lots of space and the same convenince to downtown. As a result of all this, downtown's population is generally on the decline. It is nowhere near its peak, and I would be surprised if it ever gets significantly higher than it is today. But the economic activity is driven significantly by tourism, and downtown is booming as a result.

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