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monsoon

London Underground Bombings

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By now most of you know the world's oldest subway metro system system, the London Underground, has been bombed in multiple locations causing dozens of deaths and hundreds of injuries (at the time of this posting). The entire system is closed and a number of Tube stations are severely damaged. This thread is to discuss the ramifications of the bombing and what it might mean for other systems in terms of usage, expansion, and transportation alternatives.

Is this a new reality of the Urban Environment?

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Three explosions in the underground system, and one above ground that ripped through a double-decker bus. I've been glued to MSNBC. There are over 40 dead and 300 wounded. And apparently a "bomb threat" at Victoria Station. All as of 10:27 AM EST.

Please pardon my language and feel free to edit, but fudgeing terrorists. I am very frustrated and saddened by this. As a person who rides the subway every single day this just scares me even more about our own country's security. Remember Madrid? Yeah. Now London. What next, New York? Boston? Every day this incredible feeling of dread grows inside me as our world continues to become more F'ed up and things like this happen.

And yes, the T is absolutely crawling with cops and I am not looking forward to an unpleasant commute this morning.

My best to the people of London and all those affected.

[Edit: Ah, I see that UrbanPlanet's scripts covered up my f-bomb anyway]

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It's going to be a hellish future in the urban world if every entry and exit into and out of a metro station is going to be like passing through airport security (is that even feasible given the sheer volume of passengers?). Transportation is an obvious target and can keep a society and economy at a standstill. Let's not forget the nerve-gas attacks on the Tokyo subway or the 1995 Paris subway bombings. But that's not extreme enough to start abandoning cities either.

An obvious consequence of this is going to be more surveillance. London already has tons of cameras on city streets and in the Underground... so do many other cities. I wouldn't be surprised if we began seeing more of this in the United States. Here in Miami our buses already record both audio and video, so it's not too far off.

It would be a travesty if the open and free society we all know and love were to go away because of this "new reality," if it hasn't gone away already.

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I believe that this attack clearly shows a weakness in mass transit in this day and age. Terrorists see mass transit such as trains and buses as perfect targets because it affects the maximum amount of people with the least amount of weapons.

Think about it...the only big target that the terrorists had in this country on 9/11 was the airline industry because that is the most popular form of mass transit here, and it was the most effective means to carry out the attacks. Some people may not like what I'm saying, but because most of the population in this country use cars, terrorists do not have many easy targets with maximum effect. In cities like New York and Boston where mass transit is mostly used, however, there is a high probability for terrorists to attack.

I do like mass transit in many cities, and in some cities I believe it is necessary. However, cities trying to develop future facilities for mass transit, especially light rail systems, need to pay attention to these events and take caution. Having more mass transit facilities may invite future attacks. Careful analysis and planning needs to be done to adequately secure these new mass transit areas.

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Charleston native, as a big proponent of mass transit it pains me to say it, but I agree. The threat of terrorism has evolved so rapidly that even the most mundane parts of people's routines are highly vulnerable, and in ways that should be addressed. The prospect of being trapped underground in a subway tunnel is a very clear danger. For all the talk of fighting a war on terror, I don't believe that the threat will ever go away now that it's been established, and creating viable escape plans has to be a priority for the authorities responsible for maintaining transit systems that were built without a second thought to such issues as terrorism, at least on the scale that technology now allows.

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So we should all move to shacks in the countryside to create the least dense environment to be safe from terrorist? That's silly talk. There's not mass transit in Bagdad that I know of yet they seem to be doing a pretty good job of it over there. Be it by plane, train or automobile, the terrorist will get you. This is not about security as much as it is about intelligence. I was under the impression that London already had some top flight security left over from the IRA days.

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The timing of these bombings in London have come at a very intersting and crucial time: Right during the G8 conference, and what a coincidence that these bombings happened almost 24 hours after London was named to host the 2012 Olympic Games.

One cannot help but think that these terrorit attacks recently have been on countries with strong ties to the United States and/ or The War in Iraq. Prime Minister Tony Blair supports Iraq and gets along well with President Bush making Londons capital city possibly a target.

if you think about other European Capital cities are possibly much safer or on differant paths. Italy has pulled out of Iraq taking all their soldier with them which spares Rome. France has a large percentage of Arabs residing in the country as one can see throughout the city of Marseille (Population 800,000; 2nd largest city in France) which is located on teh French Riviera.

we though cannot let the terrorits run our lives but we must make sure that everything we ride in, fly in, drive in, drive over, and drive under is safe because the world has changed over the last few years.

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I do like mass transit in many cities, and in some cities I believe it is necessary. However, cities trying to develop future facilities for mass transit, especially light rail systems, need to pay attention to these events and take caution. Having more mass transit facilities may invite future attacks. Careful analysis and planning needs to be done to adequately secure these new mass transit areas.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oklahoma City doesn't have a subway system.

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One cannot help but think that these terrorit attacks recently have been on countries with strong ties to the United States and/ or The War in Iraq. Prime Minister Tony Blair supports Iraq and gets along well with President Bush making Londons capital city possibly a target.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

London has long been a terrorist target of radical political groups, including the I.R.A. for years. Bombs going off in London is not a new thing, although not of this magnitude.

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London has long been a terrorist target of radical political groups, including the I.R.A. for years.  Bombs going off in London is not a new thing, although not of this magnitude.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Someone from Manchester, England told me the IRA is no longer interested in the religious crusade of the past, and now are gangsters and move medium quantities of drugs and sell women over the internet via escort agencies. Thus you don't hear much about the IRA anymore and they don't bomb like the used to. They dont' want to draw attention to themselves.

I hate to say this, but hopefully these religious radicals from the middle east will also be westernized as the generations pass and will turn to money making activities of drug selling and prostitution instead of killing mass quantities of people for no reason except some vague religious agenda. Its the lesser of two evils...

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Someone from Manchester, England told me the IRA is no longer interested in the religious crusade of the past, and now are gangsters and move medium quantities of drugs and sell women over the internet via escort agencies.  Thus you don't hear much about the IRA anymore and they don't bomb like the used to. They dont' want to draw attention to themselves.

I hate to say this, but hopefully these religious radicals from the middle east will also be westernized as the generations pass and will turn to money making activities of drug selling and prostitution instead of killing mass quantities of people for no reason except some vague religious agenda. Its the lesser of two evils...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If to be westernized means to eliminate any real ideal, I hope that never happens. What happened today in London has no justification, not one whatsover, yet it has an explanation. It might seem for many, that an explanation is the same as a justification, yet they are completely different. Nobody with conscience and an objective, not fanatical perpective of things will ever justify the attacks, but I think they are explainable. It is dangerous to consider the Western World as the good side, and reducing the attacks as simple desires of evil people to destroy us. They have reasons, they have been victims, they have been abused, by westerners. We cannot forget that!!! I think that today's attacks are terrible, really, really horrible, I myself fear terrorist attacks on our cities, yet, we cannot blind ourselfs to the fact that those attacks are an effect, a consequence of earlier actions.

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I am afraid we will continue to see small scale attacks like this (and this was small scale compared with 9/11) or far worse. There is a significant element in the Muslim population that hates the tolerant, Christian west and the foolish politicians have let them immigrate the the US and Europe. The only real way to prevent future terrorism is either to deport these people or hope they change from within.

I know everyone will get mad at me for saying this, but how else can you deal with it in an airtight, comprehensive way? Yes, there are westernized liberals among them, but the extremists dont just announce their intention of attacking civilians in advance. We will see what the reaction is when a WMD goes off in a major city.

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Italy has pulled out of Iraq taking all their soldier with them which spares Rome.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Italy is still in iraq..says the news today, and is on high alert. They haven't pulled out

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Because of the terror attacks in London, 5 major eastern seaboard cities (Philly, Boston, Miami, and 2 more) have elevated the alert and have been notified by the FBI....

I just hope nuthing happens here in the states, and we pray for our friends overseas.

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I am afraid we will continue to see small scale attacks like this (and this was small scale compared with 9/11) or far worse.  There is a significant element in the Muslim population that hates the tolerant, Christian west and the foolish politicians have let them immigrate the the US and Europe.  The only real way to prevent future terrorism is either to deport these people or hope they change from within.

I know everyone will get mad at me for saying this, but how else can you deal with it in an airtight, comprehensive way?  Yes, there are westernized liberals among them, but the extremists dont just announce their intention of attacking civilians in advance.  We will see what the reaction is when a WMD goes off in a major city.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, our only hope is westernized liberals, because the West is good and islam is evil??? ^_^:ph34r:

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the tolerant, Christian west

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is that what we're calling it now. Doubleplusungood.

I know everyone will get mad at me for saying this, but how else can you deal with it in an airtight, comprehensive way?  Yes, there are westernized liberals among them, but the extremists dont just announce their intention of attacking civilians in advance.  We will see what the reaction is when a WMD goes off in a major city.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's a shame that they dont teach any history in American schools anymore. Some reading for you.

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Is that what we're calling it now. Doubleplusungood.

It's a shame that they dont teach any history in American schools anymore. Some reading for you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hehe, am glad that there are still some other americans that are aware of that. For most, the west has become a synonym to good, and islam now means evil...Nobody realices that this attacks are not random, they are consequences.---Cause and Effect :ph34r:

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It's a shame that they dont teach any history in American schools anymore.

Cotuit: Actually, I have a degree (BA) in History. :lol:

And, I am well aware of the Japanese internments and think they were probably unnecessary though certainly justified given the circumstances. This is an entirely different situation however. I do find it amusing that liberals, who would be the first people executed under these fanatics' new regime, seem so weak in responding to them.

Ruso: What would you have us do in the face of terrorism? Give in to their demands?

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Ruso:  What would you have us do in the face of terrorism?  Give in to their demands?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would get to the root of why people feel the need to lash out like this rather than just repsonding in kind.

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I am not going to debate this. For now it is all fun and games and jokes on here, but when we lose a city to a nuclear weapon there wont be any talk of root causes and such. All of the wishes and good intentions in the world wont bring it back either.

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Now I have never been on a Subway but im wondering what security measures to most subways have? How can this be prevented in the future? Mass Transit is so open and accessible that i imagine it would be difficult to keep tabs on and prevent people from getting on. We cant turn our Subways into our airports with delays and long lines. What do you subway riders suggest be done? Sorry I cant add to the discussion. Im from Detroit and we have no concept of mass transit here.

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From an American school?

You have no clue do you? So some fanatics go on a bombing rampage, that makes every Muslim on the planet guilty and open to punishment? Timothy McVeigh was a Christian you know, perhaps we should deport all Christians... Oh, actually.  :whistling:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

I remember studying highshool history in kentucky....Questions like: ""Is Rome in Latin America? or The Reinassance was in here right?""

And statements like: ""My father tol me that muslims are communist from Middle East who kill for fun....I wish I could kill all of them, so they would leave us alone!!, or We either went to Iraq or they would have destroyed us!!""

Riversidegator: With all due respect, are our cities threatened by WMD like the so many founded in Iraq???

FEAR, FEAR, FEAR, FEAR----The Russians are coming!!!!!

PD: Have you seen Team America?

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This is a little off-topic but i must say that i continue to be impressed by the resolve of the people of London. I was watching all this on BBC America and the interviews they had with the "average" Londoner were astounding. There was this sort of "been there done that" attitude about it. I guess surviving the German Blitz and years of a homegrown terror war will do a lot to stiffen the publics resolve. They had the bus system back up and running by the end of the day and they showed people streaming into those buses as though nothing happened. God forbid this should happen here again, I hope we take something away from Londons rapid return to normalcy and refusal to let something like this totally disrupt their daily lives. Thats the only way this type of a thing will stop happening, is when terrorist see they have negligible effect on the life of the average person.

Back on topic i'm not sure how much more public transit can be affected by this. One thing this does is sort of numb the public because now everybody realizes that nowhere is safe. Bomb a plane, people start taking trains and buses. Bomb the trains and buses, where else will people go. People have to get around our vast cities and states somehow. I think public transit, whatever it's form, will remain as intergral today as it was yesterday if for nothing less than the sheer necessity of it. I would expect a minor uptick in security and possibly a few policy changes but other than that it's really impractical to try to secure all the nations transit systems in the same way as they do the airports. Can u imagine metal detectors, scanners, and searches at every New York subway entrance? That system would ground to a halt due to the massive number of people that would have to be checked. It would cease to be effective as a transportation alternative.

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