Is Target the new Wal-Mart?

[peaceloveunderstanding]

you know though, Sams Club is pretty nice. I have a membership there mostly for the cheap gas but also because the deals are outstanding. Sams Club seems to be much cleaner and better run then its sibling. There are no kids hanging about which is nice. Maybe it has to do with paying a yearly fee.

[StevenRocks]

I do dig Sam's Club.

[Fruit Cove]

I dig costco, Clark Howard's playground.

[9thWonder]

I'm glad. Target is overall a better store than Wal-Mart.

[Tayfromcarolina]

I too worked for target. And I had a blast, they have a real family approach to employees. I worked in loss prevention and there security is digital and top notch. "Don't even try to steal from there"

Target is indeed a bit more "Upscale" than walmart, and you if you want to get there and not worry about parking it's way better.

Target is among the best corporations as far as giving back to the community. They also have a very good PR (Press and Representation) dept.

They typically are much cleaner and have a different design to fit the are where they are built. Like one the new stores here in Raleigh has a 14 scree movie theater on top of it. And has an escalator outside for the cart to be carried to cars on the parking deck. Plus many have STARBUCKS inside. Talk about upscale. I may never set foot in a walmart again unless of course it's 2:00 in the morning.

[Snowguy716]

I think Target has a lot of work to do as a corporation, but I think they are trying harder than their competitors.

Target seems to embrace change. They are beginning to see that people are getting to be more environmentally conscious and they are beginning to respond.

My best examples: They have converted half the roof of one Target store in California with solar panels. Energy usage from outside sources is down 70% at that store. With those savings, it will take the store only 5 years to pay for the solar panels. They plan on converting more stores.

They are also more open to dense shopping. The store in downtown MInneapolis has two floors with a cart escalator.

And yes, Target is a better corporation for giving back to community. While girl scouts can sell cookies at Wal-mart and not Target, Target is just as happy to make large donations to the United Way and to schools. (My city's Target employees gave $30,000 to the local United Way last year, not to mention the large donations by the coporation itself).

(For example, the schools in my area receive about $20,000/year in total from Target. While that's not a whole lot, it's a hell of a lot more than Wal-Mart has given.) Of course, this is all dependent on customers using their Target credit cards.. but that's 1% more profit they could be lining their pocket books with, and in the low profit industry that Target is in, it's a start. A little Christian school in the area with only 100 students receives $800/year from Target. That buys a lot of phys. ed. equipment and new books for the library.

And it's also worth mentioning that Target is a product of Dayton's. The Dayton family is pretty influential in Minnesota. They are also very liberal.. something you don't find in a family full of million-aires that got rich off of retail.

[flamingomonkey]

I wouldn't mind Walmart or Target if they would build up to the street and be integrated into urban neighborhoods better, as opposed to being surrounding by massive parking lots.

[Recchia]

There is a really cool, two level store just south of downtown. The front is open to the street, and there's a multi level parking deck out back. There's two entrances, front and back, so it's easy to get to, whether you're on foot or in a car. While waiting for the elevator out back to get to the parking deck, there's a beautiful view of the city skyline, especially at night.

There's also a mall on the northwest side (technically in a suburb, but surrounded by the city). There was only one, small surface parking lot, facing the front of the L shaped mall. Most parking was on the roof of the mall. They've just eliminated the lot with a two story Target, a Best Buy, and a parking deck, to create a truly urban mall. It really looks great from the corner, the facade is white stucco, with green plants draping over the sides of the parking deck, and a big fountain and display windows on one corner.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very nice, I want to see one built near me.

Once again, I'm no economist, and I know little about the so called evil effects that Walmarts and Targets have on areas, but from an urbansit point of view, I wish their physical forms would take on more of what you have described above.

[Garris]

I tend to view Target much more charitably than Wal-Mart. I lived in Minnesota for four years, and Target is enormously generous philanthropically in the Twin Cities area (where they are headquartered) and have put their stamp on the region in positive ways corporately that I wish some of our local RI companies (CVS, Brooks, Citizen's, Hasbro, etc) would. They're near invisible compared to what Target does in Minnesota.

Target also has neatly integrated some of their suburban style stores into the urban landscape. I'm thinking specifically of their downtown Minneapolis and White Plains stores. I think they also have urban ones in NYC and elsewhere as well.

It's also a small sampling, but people I knew in Minnesota who had worked for both Target and Wal-Mart greatly preferred being employed by Target, which was viewed as far friendly, more flexible, and more instilling of loyalty.

- Garris

Providence, RI

[jb4563]

Target seems to care about the appearance of the neighborhoods they operate in more than Wal-Mart.

(Sure, they have abandoned some stores to move to the suburbs, but no one can expect a company to operate unprofitable stores).

Go to any Wal-Mart and then go to a Target and compare the looks of the outside:

*Target will have better architecture (even Target's generic architecture looks better than the best looking Wal-Mart)

*Target will have better landscaping

*Target's parking lot will be a lot cleaner (trash, shopping carts, cart corral signs, etc)

*Target doesn't junk up the front of the stores with a bunch of merchandise or signs or drink machines

How they treat their property is a true indication of how much they care about the neighborhood the store is in.

[hood]

In my area, and in much of the midwest we have Meijer stores thrown into the mix, they are all "supercenters," even though they don't call themselves that since they have had that idea sine 1962, over 40 years. They are based out of Grand Rapids. they are still mostly just stores situated in seas of parking lots but do have some nice designs, the newsest one (in which most old stores will be remodeled) will have a drive-through pharmacy, a Starbucks and other lease spots. I can't find a picture of it but here is an article Rockwell Group designed Meijer stores

Here is there former design:

I found a picture of a downtown Target under consruction in Minneapolis, pretty nice.

[Garris]

I found a picture of a downtown Target under consruction in Minneapolis, pretty nice.

That's the one I was referring to in my post. It's been done for a while now, and is neatly integrated into the streetscape. Here's another photo of it from the same site...

- Garris

Providence, RI

[Lady Celeste]

I definitely prefer target to Walmart.

I think in the last fifteen years I have been in a Walmart five times. I am so serious, five times. That's like once every three years. They merchandise just seem so, how can I say this.....cheap. I know that there are people who will praise Walmart to the stars and I'm not really knocking the stores but I think out of all the Walmarts I have been in, there is only one that I really liked shopping in...and it was a super Walmart.

Even if I'm at a Target and I don't find what I want....I will not drive across the street to go to Walmart....I'll just drive 5 miles south and go to another target. I don't even feel that Target and Walmart are on the same level. Home Depot and Lowes are like stores....Target and Walmart are different. Maybe I'm being a little harsh on Walmart.

I have seen way too many empty box Walmart stores....I even saw one in an affluent area. They relocated a few miles away. Why, because I guess they wanted a new store.

Target just seems more civic minded also.

I feel so biased.......and wrong for being so harsh on Walmart. I'm sure they are beneficial to many people. I just never have a need to go there.

p.s.- now that I have thought about it, I think I may have gone to Walmart 7 times in 15 years. My apologies Walmart for miscounting.

p.s.s- While I'm on it, Target also has a better selection of home decor accessories. Accessories that you actually feel comfortable putting in your interior design scheme.

[MrSmith]

In my opinion here is why Target is better than Wal-Mart:

1. Target will work with communities to build Stores that will work for residents.

2. The goal for Walmart is to Always have to lowest price --no matter who they hurt in the process. Obviously Target needs to compete, but instead of competing solely on price they have decided to offer a more upscale product mix which allows them to to be competitive without killing their suppliers.

3. Target sees shopping as part of an experience...not just a place to get the lowest prices.

If Wal-Mart was not around, I think you would actually find Target to be even more generous and accomodating to the communities they are a part of. Wal-Mart is so ruthless, however, it is difficult to compete with them unless you match them.

[Snowguy716]

Ahhh.. the shopping experience..

there's nothing like peace of mind knowing that you just got everything you wanted and it's decided value is ingrained in a piece of plastic in your wallet.

***NOTE*** This comment was not meant to be a mockery of a "consumerist" society. If you think it is, you thought wrong.

[MrSmith]

Ahhh.. the shopping experience..

there's nothing like peace of mind knowing that you just got everything you wanted and it's decided value is ingrained in a piece of plastic in your wallet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not exactly sure what you mean by that?

[StevenRocks]

^ obviously not someone who had anything constructive to say on the thread

[Snowguy716]

Okay Steven... let's take that statement apart.

Peace of mind: Knowing that you succeeded in what you wanted to and you are now comfortable with yourself.

Got everything you wanted: Just like it sounds

Its decided value: The price the store gives the good that you are purchasing.

Ingrained: Charged

Piece of plastic: Credit card

Wallet: A means of carrying important financial and identification documents around with you.

There, does that help? And I thank you for the snide remark. It makes the thread much more enjoyable.

[StevenRocks]

Whatever. I'm not getting into a flame war over this.

You couln't possibly believe that dropping a self-righteous mocking statement agianst consumerist society on this thread would go unanswered. I may be snide, but buddy, you started it by being even more snide, not just to me, but to people who actually give a d@mn about this question. Without provocation, I might add.

[Snowguy716]

Anti-consumerist?

I think you read into the comment too far.

Putting your purchases on plastic does offer some peace of mind.. until the monthly statement comes.

I think you jumped to a conclusion that you probably shouldn't have. If you'll read above, you'll see that, in fact, I did offer a constructive post on behalf of Target.

[StevenRocks]

Anti-consumerist?

I think you read into the comment too far.

Putting your purchases on plastic does offer some peace of mind.. until the monthly statement comes.

I think you jumped to a conclusion that you probably shouldn't have.  If you'll read above, you'll see that, in fact, I did offer a constructive post on behalf of Target.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm really sorry about misreading you, Snowguy716. Your earlier comments were indeed constructive, and I do apologize sincerely.

[Snowguy716]

Not a problem. I'm no angel when it comes to saying things I probably shouldn't.

But hey, why have a line if no one is going to cross it a bit now and then?

On to Target:

While the corporation does have shifty competition policies and low pay for its bottom of the barrel employees, the corporation, for the most part, has held onto its old fashioned "loyal to the company" policies.

For example, they contribute to your pension and 401K plans pretty generously and offer their health plan to you and your dependents for life, given certain conditions. (Minimum amount of service to the company, etc.).

Also, once you retire, it's 10% off for life. No visa card needed (GRRRRR!!!). I swear I'm gonna buy a sticker that says simply "No, I don't have one and I don't want one".. so when they ask me for their "red card" or whatever, I'll just point to the sticker and smile big.

I also have some thoughts on the over-saturation of Wal-Mart in the market and its less than robust sales figures lately.

I believe that the same thing that happened to K-Mart will happen to Wal-Mart for different reasons.

In 1978, K-Mart had 2200 stores nationwide. This is about the time when K-Mart opened a store in my community. They were the king of discount retailing at a time when both Wal-Mart and Target were comparatively "peasants" on the radar screen.

But K-Mart had saturated the market. There was nowhere else to go, really. While they tried expanding their existing stores, new, fresh Target and Wal-Mart stores were opening in traditionally solid K-Mart markets.

By 1990, K-Mart still had 2200 stores and Target had grown from 150 to 400 stores and Wal-Mart about the same.

During the 1990s, poor management decisions at K-Mart and excellent growth in the sector led to a stagnation in K-Mart sales as Wal-Mart ate up their market. Target continued its steady growth throughout the decade and continued to differentiate itself from Wal-Mart by offering more upscale merchandise.. my favorite title for this is "Cheap chic"... or "Tarzhay boutique".

By the early 2000s, K-Mart was ailing and closed 700 stores, nearly 1/3 of its stores. Meanwhile, Wal-Mart was at the same position that K-Mart was in the late 1970s.

Now Wal-Mart is the namesake of small town America like K-Mart was in the 70s. Now, after decades of appealing to lower income shoppers, the Walton dream may be tainted. Rising gas prices are putting a squeeze on low income America while the middle and upper classes are gaining a taste for more upscale merchandise. That leaves Wal-Mart in a place it doesn't want to be.

Target is seizing that opportunity. They are moving into traditional Wal-Mart markets and doing what fresh competition does: skimming the cream.

Much like the smaller discount airlines do by moving into busy markets and offering cheap airfares and leaving the big airlines with the smaller, more expensive markets.. Target is moving in and taking away Wal-Mart's big spending shoppers.

The result has been same store sales increases double that of Wal-Marts for well over a year now.. and the trend continues. While Wal-mart continues to try and build stores in ever smaller, secluded towns to gain more market share, Target is slowly taking bites off of the top.

So, in that sense.. Target is the next Wal-Mart. But with an ever growing presence of Target in the market, will we see an improvement in employee pay in the discount retail sector, or will Target continue the race to the bottom, squeezing out its competition and holding its vendors hostage with unsustainable prices?

Only time will tell.

[urbanvb]

Wow, you know your retail! lol

[Eternalrsx]

I would have to say I prefer Target more than walmart. Sure walmart has low prices, always! but they also have low quality products too. Furniture from there just looks like crap while Targets furniture selection is more attractive and upscale, plus their online offerings rock. They may be a little more expensive but I'd rather pay a bit more to shop in a store that is eye catching, a clean looking, that attracts a better class of shopper. If that sounds snobby, well that's how I am. I've noticed when you shop at walmart there is always someone out front begging for your money, at target I've never seen any of that. Didn't target also ban the annoying Salvation Army bell ringers? Target stores overall are cleaner and have a better layout. As a previous posters said, you come out of walmart feeling dirty. It's true.

In Tampa Target just opened a store in an urban type setting. The target is on the 2nd level with an attached parking garage in a center that has other retailers too. This Target was built across the street from what might be Tampa Bays nastiest walmart ever. I haven't had a chance to visit the new Target but have heard it's great while the parking situation can be confusing.

[Snowguy716]

I look at it this way:

Wal-Mart allows girl scouts and the homeless to beg for money at its doors, and then turns around gives little back to the community behind the scenes. This way, it can get away with giving little to the community and look good by "reaching out" to the poor by letting them stand at their doorstep.

Target wants to attract shoppers by offering an uncluttered and unsolicited (from other parties) shopping experience.

They respond by giving much more back to the community by cutting checks directly to individual schools and giving loads of cash to the United Way (which in turns operates homeless shelters, soup kitchens, etc.)

It shows the two completely different idealogies between Target and Wal-Mart.

Wal-Mart is a low cost, low service namesake that allows the disadvantaged to go it alone at hte front door.

Target is a higher cost, higher service store that gives the homeless a place to sleep and a meal to eat so they don't have to beg at the doorstep.

Of course, Target is only negligibly better than Wal-Mart.. but it's better nonetheless.