Is Target the new Wal-Mart?

[StevenRocks]

You know Steven you brought up a very good point! Up north, including Manhattan, you rarely find big-box stores! The only big box stores I have found in Manhattan are Best Buy, Toys R US, KMart, and Home Depot. And those stores were only scaled down versions and took up less than half of what your typical big boxers' do. And heck, the KMart closed with in two years that it was there on 34th St in NYC. It shows how in big cities like NYC, they rather buy from seperate specialty retailers than a mega one.

Actually Kmart is still going strong on 34th Street and at Astor Place downtown. It's incredibly popular.

[DigitalSky]

Looks like Wal-mart is considering building stores in India now.

Where else is left in the world to put a Wal-Mart?

Not surprised at India. I wonder where they'd start building them there

[mcheiss]

Not surprised at India. I wonder where they'd start building them there

What's next?

South Africa?

Russia?

New Zeland?

Australia?

[Mith242]

I guess this is as good of a place to post this info. Did anyone hear about Wal-mart opening their second 'green' store?

[ChattyPlanner]

Also, they sponsor the Target Center, the home of the MInnesota Timberwolves. There is no "Wal-Mart Stadium" out there. But I'm sure there are htings that Wal-mart sponsors that shouldn't be overlooked.

There isn't a Wal-Mart stadium, but a sports arena at the University of Missouri was once named after Sam Walton's granddaughter, who attended USC. Her parents donated much of the money that was used to construct the arena. That was the closest I could find to a Wal-Mart stadium. http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-cheat25.html

[Mith242]

There isn't a Wal-Mart stadium, but a sports arena at the University of Missouri was once named after Sam Walton's granddaughter, who attended USC. Her parents donated much of the money that was used to construct the arena. That was the closest I could find to a Wal-Mart stadium. http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-cheat25.html

I'm not sure if it's still named that or not. There was a bit of a scandal with the granddaughter cheating at the university. There is a Bud Walton Arena at the University of Arkansas, where the Razorbacks play basketball games. But I don't know of any other Walton named facilities offhand.

[mcheiss]

I guess this is as good of a place to post this info. Did anyone hear about Wal-mart opening their second 'green' store?

It opened in Colorado, right?

[njjeppson]

Wal-Mart has opened "urban" stores around the world. Wal-Mart operates stores in Mexico, Puerto Rico, Canada, Argentina, Brazil, China, Korea, Germany and the United Kingdom. Photos from Wal-Mart Facts

The first United States urban Wal-Mart was to be constructed in the Park Cities area of Dallas, but was rejected by the residents:

"In a striking departure from its standard one-level box, Wal-Mart planned to build a two-story supercenter in the Park Cities of Dallas, a wealthy residential area. Complete with awnings, decorative windows, arches and a Spanish tile roof, the new store will occupy an 11-acre site and actually front the street. Gone is the sea of asphalt that surrounds a typical Wal-Mart. All parking for this supercenter will be built at ground level under the elevated store."

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Meanwhile, Home Depot opened an urban store in Chicago:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Target has opened some new urban stores as well (as seen in previous posts here):

But in a missed urban opportunity, a developer bought the old Montgomery Ward building in Fort Worth,

tore a hole through the middle, and built a driveway to a new Super Target surrounded by acres of parking. A more urban design would have been appropriate so close to downtown. How do you convince a company to build an urban store? (Photos from Fort Worth Architecture )

[DigitalSky]

I love the look of the Home Depot. And i love any SuperTarget hehe

[Mith242]

It opened in Colorado, right?

Yeah Aurora I believe. I think the other is somewhere in Texas.

[MadVlad]

Target and Walmart are basically the same, if you ask me. Connecticut was the home for a bunch of Department stores that were sunk by stores like W-M and Target. Ames, Caldor, and Bradlees were all Connecticut grown stores, but they couldn't keep up with the Jones', survival of the fittest, I guess...

[MrSmith]

Interestingly Target was started by Dayton's Department Store in Minneapolis in the 1960's. It was so successful that Dayton's was able to buy Marshall Field's -- which at one time was a giant compared to Dayton's. In a sense, Target allowed Dayton's to grow.

However, in tha lst 3-4 years Dayton's realized that the real future was not in department stores at all but in Target -- and that's when they sold off Mervyns and all of their department stores.

Many of the people who work at Target corporate headquarters have a department store background. I think they would argue that consumers are killing department stores because they are more interested in price than the prestige of the department store name.

Somtimes you can't blame the store for their design. Sometimes it is city code that requires all the parking. IT is up to the community to set the proper building standards and zoning.

[aTorridGustOfSun]

MrSmith just made the point that I was going to make.

Target comes from a history of top-name retailing, and part of the reason why Target is nicer than Wal-Mart is because they have that history of Dayton's, Marshall Field's, Hudson's, etc.

It seems like the traditional department store is slowly dying. Target rebranded Dayton's and Hudson's to Marshall Field's (which amounted pretty much in simply a name change). However, things are going to change more radically now that Macy's bought out Marshall Field's.

IMO, we talk a lot about Target & Wal-Mart, but what about stores like Macy's? Macy's pulls similar tactics like Wal-Mart does... though at least Macy's employees are paid better.

[StevenRocks]

It seems like the traditional department store is slowly dying. Target rebranded Dayton's and Hudson's to Marshall Field's (which amounted pretty much in simply a name change). However, things are going to change more radically now that Macy's bought out Marshall Field's.

I think Macy's efforts are admirable on the surface, but I don't see a future for their current business model. Department stores are dying because the merchandise selection in most chains shrunk to mostly apparel and a token housewares department. Mergers and a homogenous store experience didn't help things. Macy's is not going to save itself by merging with everyone and continuing the status quo.

What will save the department store industry, IMO, is a wholesale reassesment of their stores. People prefer a full-line shopping experience and knowlegeable salespeople. Macy's has the resources to pull this off if they choose to, but as long as its largest and most glamourus stores make money, they won't change and they're going to lose their shirt, especially in smaller markets where people's wallets and taste level leans more towards discounters and specialty retailers than to traditional department stores. The failures at the bottom, if not stopped, will kill Macy's and will send tremors through what's left of the industry.

[aTorridGustOfSun]

Macy's will be fighting an uphill battle in the Midwest.

According to a survey done by KSTP:

-For every shopper that doesn't mind Marshall Field's changing to Macy's, there are five others who are "fighting mad".

-20% of people surveyed will substantially shop less at Macy's.

-4% will shop there more.

-45% indifferent

I think Macy's is going to be fighting an uphill battle. And it all comes down to that "Target/Dayton-Hudson" brand loyalty that has been a part of the Twin Cities since most people can remember. There are some people who are still upset that Dayton's is gone.

I think the future lies with Target, not Wal-Mart.

[StevenRocks]

The Midwest Macy's conversion is going to be ugly. A key rule of retail is that you don't alienate your customer base. Slapping a national name on a Midwestern mainstay is going to break that rule.

I think the future lies with Target, not Wal-Mart.

When the chips are counted in ten years, I think Nordstrom, Target and JCPenney will be our preferred national department stores. Sears and Kmart are failing, Macy's is setting up a house of cards, and Wal-Mart is unable to shake its stigma.

[DigitalSky]

Penney? really

edit: now I see where you're coming from

[StevenRocks]

Penney? really

edit: now I see where you're coming from

There will be regional chains like Dillard's, Belk and Bon-Ton too, but there will only be a handful of national players.

[MrSmith]

It seems to me that as the world has gotten smaller, that what people are really looking for is something unique or they are looking for the best price. Stores like Target offer the everyday items at a good price, but they constantly change their clothing and housewares -- so when you buy something it isn't something everyone else has or will be able to get in the future. If you are going to be national, that's what it takes to be successful.

Department stores are in trouble because they can't compete on price and they no longer compete on uniqueness. I can buy the same item at any number of stores. I see small retailers like GAP, BR, etc. taking a lot of business from department stores --they rotate their merchandise so much more frequently.

[snoogit]

Meijer is still going strong here in Michigan, but I don't think its going to be Meijer for long.

[aTorridGustOfSun]

Meijer is still going strong here in Michigan, but I don't think its going to be Meijer for long.

I don't think a local store "going strong" can keep it from getting taken over.

Dayton's was going strong when it was rebranded to be Marshall Field's. Marshall Field's was going strong and now it's going to be Macy's (everyone here knows that I feel that Macy's won't go strong at the former Field's locations).

[StevenRocks]

Department stores are in trouble because they can't compete on price and they no longer compete on uniqueness. I can buy the same item at any number of stores. I see small retailers like GAP, BR, etc. taking a lot of business from department stores --they rotate their merchandise so much more frequently.

The Gap is suffering because they're not a reliable source for fashion, actually, and as of late they're just as bland as department stores. Because of the success of Old Navy and Banana Republic, the namesake Gap stores will probably be a relic of the past in a few years. Gap, Inc. created concepts that cannibalized their nanesake business.

We have too much retail square footage in this country, and it's inevitable that some things will fall to the side. What I take issue with is companies that are trying to do better (like May Company) getting taken over by companies with no clear plan for survival (like Federated) just because they can raise the cash.

[DigitalSky]

We have too much retail square footage in this country, and it's inevitable that some things will fall to the side. What I take issue with is companies that are trying to do better (like May Company) getting taken over by companies with no clear plan for survival (like Federated) just because they can raise the cash.

Yeah that's sad. Puts new meaning on "Way to shop"

[StevenRocks]

^Truly.

When are we going to learn that big retail isn't always the best solution? You can have a company that makes money selling things that isn't nationwide, spreadsheet bland and predictable. Efficiency can be balanced with creativity.

[Dylan]

I dont see Target ever becoming as big as Wal-Mart is.