Is Target the new Wal-Mart?

[DigitalSky]

You never know. During the Kmart and Sears era, I'm sure people were saying the same about Wal-Mart.

[kickflipjr]

There are lots of people who say they hate wal-mart or will never shop there, but any time I go to wal-mart it is super busy (I don't go there often) and a million cars in the parking lot.

The problem most people have with wal-mart is they try to do everything at the lowest possible price. Landscaping, dropceilings, tile floors all cost money and walmart dosen't want to pay that extra money (at most locations).

Obviously someone wants to go to walmart because the stores would go out of busniess if people didn't want to buy crappy things in a huge store.

Target is a bit nicer but it is still a big box store. I just like a target because they have some unique flavors of potato chips.

[princessangry]

target is useless since you can find better stuff at the mall for the same price!

also target apex is too hectic with too many screaming kids breaking plants and stuff. one broke alot of jewelry and thier mom though it was cute and the girl was 9 years old! she should have known better! This one kdis screamed bloody murder just becuase thier mom didnt get them this certain candy bar! (like kids need junk food anywaz)

also lots of the people there are in really bad moods. One of them yelled at me for taking the last of a certain candlholder and I said "mabye you should ask the store if they have anymore" and they threw a huge fit and chased after me! it was a chick that had way too much makeup on and she had like too many tabloid mags in her cart.

I think walmart has better prices and they ahve a better variety of stuff. target don't have decent plants, they dont have much home decor compared to walmart, and also target focuses on kids clothes and baby clothes and they dont have much clothes that isnt a size zero for young ladies. And the food selection walmart has is better and fresher. Also target's food is sometimes mroe then kroger and kroger food is better quality!

[Snowguy716]

Did anyone ever stop to think that maybe you pay more at Target because they don't have 4000 stores or make $280bn in revenue every year? Or that perhaps they would like to offer somewhat affordable healthcare to its workers and a pretty decent pension plan as far as big-box retailers go?

I have a feeling Target would be such a great corporation if it wasn't for the likes of Wal-Mart, fresher food or not.

[City_of_Lakes]

Below are a variety of random thoughts related to this topic (like it or not everything is connected).

Target and Wal-Mart are corporations simply put. If you don't fancy them buy from mom and pop type stores, where you know the money stays in the community.

In this fast paced world we live in you can find people in bad moods most anywhere, doesn't surprise me with all the over processed junk, which companies label as food, most people eat on a daily basis.

For groceries I buy from a food co-op and the farmer's market in the summer. At the former I find that the workers typically know the farmers and local suppliers whose goods usually are fair-trade (giving the growers and all a living wage), and at the latter I can get to know the people who grow the produce and once again this can help out the small family farmers that still exist. This next year I'm considering joining a CSA (community supported agriculture) farm co-op in my area.

There are merely way too many ways that cheap goods that we demand now will inevitably impact us in the future. An example that has been brought up before, becoming overweight by driving for that $1 you'll save will possibly lead to health problems down the road, is so true. Goods that are made in sweatshops, where people are working in substandard factories that would be closed down in the US at the drop of a hat, will only cause problems for us in the future, for our way of life is catching on. The more and more the rest of the world wants to be like us in terms of living, the less amount of resources there will be to go around. I know I cannot change the world simply by doing what I do, but every drop combined adds up to be a full bucket.

Personally I'd like to see more pedestrian only streets like those found in Europe and Asia, where housing is above or close by and it's well supported by transit.

In the next few decades the price of gas will hopefully rise to the point of what it should be, wholeheartedly subsidized by the government, as it is right now, only creates an illusion.

[lsgchas]

I work for the local bottler of a major soda brand, so I tend to spend a lot of time working in Wal-Mart and Target. Through my job, I've gotten an inside glimpse at how both corporations treat their employees. One of the first things I noticed in Wal-Mart is just how appreciative the managers seem to be of the rank-and-file workers. A Wal-Mart manager can't go ten feet without shouting out to somebody "Good Job!" or "Way to Go!" On some level, this is very admirable, since Wal-Mart workers (despite what some people believe) are almost always hard-working and friendly. However, something about the relatioship there between managers and workers struck me as a little troubling, despite the rosy appearance. Maybe it's because there are more propaganda posters in a Wal-Mart break room than in a Soviet gulag, maybe it's because adult workers are forced to participate in a team cheer before each shift ("Give me a W. Give me an A. Give me an L!"), maybe it's because you NEVER hear two Wal-Mart employees complaining about their jobs, even when a manager is not around. The Wal-Mart smiley face pretty much masks the personality of their employees, even behind the scenes.

As I got to know some the employees better, they began to open up to me privately about the usual drawbacks to working at Wal-Mart: bad health care, having to take second jobs to make ends meet, etc. It made me wonder why they were treated so well to their faces but basically stabbed behind their backs. I learned that part of the reason is the selection process for new workers. A lot of Wal-Mart workers start out as temporary holiday help. If a worker turns out to have a good work ethic and not to be a complainer, then Wal-Mart may ask him or her to stay on after the holidays. The rest are laid-off. This is a way for Wal-Mart to cull the herd and only hire workers that fit their profile (hard worker, not a troublemaker).

However, what really opened my eyes was reading Eric Schlosser's book Fast Food Nation. In it, Schlosser describes a management technique called "stroking." This approach involves making a constant and conspicuous effort to flatter the employee's ego. Sounds great, but what it is designed to compensate for are the typical evils of paying low wages: high turnover, lack of motivation, and lack of loyalty. In a Machivellian manner, corporations, such as Wal-Mart and many of the major fast food franchises, coldly calculate that most of their workers are from broken homes and failing schools, and that many of them have never been told they are good people who are worth something. The managers "stroke" them and achieve loyalty and complaisance, even though the companies are not keeping up their end of the bargain. Now, to be fair, most Wal-Mart store managers are decent people, and I truly believe they don't know the full philosophy behind the techniques they're taught to use, and also, they are probably "stroked" themselves by their superiors.

At Target, I find a much more diverse group of workers, in terms of their personalities and attitudes. There is no universal smiley-face there. True, the managers aren't as profligate with their praise, but the workers are free to be themselves and occasionally complain behind managements back. It's a normal workplace, in other words. Personally, I'm glad I don't work for either store, but if I had to make a choice, I'd definitely choose Target.

[Miesian Corners]

^Great post (and Fast Food Nation is a great book...I no longer eat at McDonald's since reading it).

One thing that has gotten to me over the past several months is Wal-Mart's new ad campaign. Their new jingle is, well, pretty darn good. I actually caught myself singing it when one of the new ads came on TV last night. The images in the ads are eye catching, contemporary, and contain attractive people.

I'll still never set foot in one, but I do give them points for trying to upgrade their image.

[StevenRocks]

Wal-Mart's not dumb. They knew they were losing the public relations war, so they're trying to put across a kinder, gentler image in the media.

[Miesian Corners]

Wal-Mart's not dumb. They knew they were losing the public relations war, so they're trying to put across a kinder, gentler image in the media.

I know Steven, it just pains me to admit they did something good, even if it is in the advertising realm.

[StevenRocks]

Yeah, even the losers get lucky sometimes. Wal-Mart's still pretty much evil.

[lsgchas]

Wal-Mart's not dumb. They knew they were losing the public relations war, so they're trying to put across a kinder, gentler image in the media.

Do you also notice that all the scenes in those ads represent comfortable middle class lifestyles? I bet Wal-Mart did some research and found that middle class consumers are turned-off by all the negative publicity surrounding Wal-Mart (as well as by the stores themselves). Cue the "we're sophisticated but we still love Wal-Mart" ads.

Also on the P.R. front, there's a feel-good blurb about Wal-Mart in Time Magazine's latest report on Global Warming. Apparently there's a Wal-Mart somewhere with a windmill on its roof that supplies 5% of the store's electricity (yep, a big old 5%). As if that negates Wal-Mart's policy of only building on the periphery of sprawl and forcing people to drive out to get there. Imagine what a difference Wal-Mart would make if they made a stand and said they'd only build in locations that cut down on automobile travel. Of course, that would mean doing something real. They went for a meaningless P.R. gimmick instead. It's a shame Time fell for it and dubbed them "green." As if...

[StevenRocks]

Do you also notice that all the scenes in those ads represent comfortable middle class lifestyles? I bet Wal-Mart did some research and found that middle class consumers are turned-off by all the negative publicity surrounding Wal-Mart (as well as by the stores themselves). Cue the "we're sophisticated but we still love Wal-Mart" ads.

Yep. they're trying to establish middle class credibility in a major way. It's going to be an uphill fight, because outside of the Southeast, the store isn't exactly endeared by that customer base.

[Minneapolitan]

I just saw the Fortune 500 list for 2006. Wal-Mart is ranked 2nd with a revenue of $315,654.0 billion while Target is 29th with a revenue of $52,620.0 billion.

[dimebag1980]

They may be just as bad as Sprawl-Mart in some ways, but I prefer to do my grocery shopping at SuperTarget than anywhere else. It's cheaper than chains like Kroger and Albertson's, but it's much more nice and clean than Wally World.

[Miesian Corners]

Also on the P.R. front, there's a feel-good blurb about Wal-Mart in Time Magazine's latest report on Global Warming. Apparently there's a Wal-Mart somewhere with a windmill on its roof that supplies 5% of the store's electricity (yep, a big old 5%). As if that negates Wal-Mart's policy of only building on the periphery of sprawl and forcing people to drive out to get there. Imagine what a difference Wal-Mart would make if they made a stand and said they'd only build in locations that cut down on automobile travel. Of course, that would mean doing something real. They went for a meaningless P.R. gimmick instead. It's a shame Time fell for it and dubbed them "green." As if...

You know, I can't believe I'm going to take up for them, but credit must be given when its due. The new prototype Wal-Mart stores are pretty progressive. Radiant floor heat, recycling graywater, rain gardens, semi pervious pavements to prevent storm water run-off, solar panels for hot water, skylights to reduce the amount of electricity used in the daytime (lighting). I don't know of any other big box chain who is doing anything like this on a national scale. In fact, the only other big box I know of that's doing something like this is the new "urban" Lowe's Home Improvement that is being built here in Charlotte. Much of the reason Lowe's is doing a "green store" is simply to placate a high-profile wealthy urban neighborhood. Even with all that one Lowe's is doing, it can't compare to what Sprawl Mart is doing in Aurora, CO and McKinney, TX.

[lsgchas]

You know, I can't believe I'm going to take up for them, but credit must be given when its due. The new prototype Wal-Mart stores are pretty progressive. Radiant floor heat, recycling graywater, rain gardens, semi pervious pavements to prevent storm water run-off, solar panels for hot water, skylights to reduce the amount of electricity used in the daytime (lighting). I don't know of any other big box chain who is doing anything like this on a national scale. In fact, the only other big box I know of that's doing something like this is the new "urban" Lowe's Home Improvement that is being built here in Charlotte. Much of the reason Lowe's is doing a "green store" is simply to placate a high-profile wealthy urban neighborhood. Even with all that one Lowe's is doing, it can't compare to what Sprawl Mart is doing in Aurora, CO and McKinney, TX.

I didn't realize Wal-Mart was doing all of those things. Although, they just opened up a new store here in town and I didn't notice any of those features. Is this a "store of the future" concept, or are they actually making these improvements standard in all their new stores? Regardless of the green features of their buildings, however, their policy of locating stores on the furthest outskirts of town makes these features relatively meaningless. It's sorta like when someone bulldozes a forest and then plants a few trees around the parking lot to make up for it.

[damus]

I didn't realize Wal-Mart was doing all of those things. Although, they just opened up a new store here in town and I didn't notice any of those features. Is this a "store of the future" concept, or are they actually making these improvements standard in all their new stores? Regardless of the green features of their buildings, however, their policy of locating stores on the furthest outskirts of town makes these features relatively meaningless. It's sorta like when someone bulldozes a forest and then plants a few trees around the parking lot to make up for it.

The superwalmart near me does have the skylights, though i have no idea about the rest of the "green" aspects. If it did I'd probably have heard about it since I worked there a few summers ago and they're very good at tooting their own horn.

[charlotte_bon_vivant]

The new prototype Wal-Mart stores are pretty progressive.

They're also copies of Target's Australia stores. Unlike Wal-Mart anywhere, Target AUS actually has a Fair Trade policy.

[Miesian Corners]

They're also copies of Target's Australia stores. Unlike Wal-Mart anywhere, Target AUS actually has a Fair Trade policy.

Begs the question, why can't Target do that here in its home country?

[mjcatl2]

Target has probaby done some damage, but = to Wal Mart. No way. No company is. They own the world. Target will never catch up to them to be as damaging as them (assuming they would be as damaging).

[runawayjim]

jumping in late on this discussion... a few points.

manhattan big box... staples was left out.

CT dept store chains... caldors closed after walmart moved in, but before target as far as i know. bradlees was the same i believe (but i'm not sure bradlees was actually a CT company). ames was the last of those to leave, and was definitely a CT company. i think walmart was the main influence for those stores though. caldor was a more upscale type store, similar to what target is now, but their prices weren't much different. ames and kmart were the low end ones. target actually sells the same brands of clothing that caldor did. when walmart first moved to CT, caldor started lowering their prices in the towns where walmart was moving, but i believe walmart did the same and then caldor was gone. the reason i know this is my aunt was a big wig at caldor.

it's my opinion that target is not the new walmart nor will they ever be. they don't open nearly as many stores (here in RI, the city of warwick has 2 stores, it's neighbor cranston has 1 store, they're opening one in neighboring providence and one in johnston, which neighbors both cranston and providence). target, on the other hand, only has 3 locations in RI and no plans to build more that i know of. i wish the place in providence was becoming a target, not a walmart. aside from being cleaner and neater, you don't have people haggling you for money out front, you don't have someone greeting you at the door, and the quality of the goods is better. there are more people around the store and enough cashiers open in target to handle all the customers, there's rarely a long line to wait in. walmart's employees are not as helpful, don't really care about their jobs and there are never enough cashiers (there could be at least one more if they got rid of that stupid "greeter").

target is also more philanthropic (regardless of walmart's katrina donations) and does not have the evil pricing tricks (purposely having a very limited supply of something at an extremely low price to get you into the store to buy something that has a sticker to make it look like their prices are better than their competitors when really you are paying the same price you would elsewhere). their stores also are never cluttered.

[damus]

CT dept store chains... caldors closed after walmart moved in, but before target as far as i know. bradlees was the same i believe (but i'm not sure bradlees was actually a CT company).

The first Bradlees was in the Groton/New London area. I don't really miss any of the old regional chains to be honest. They were much less aesthetically pleasing (dirty, cluttered) than a Wal-Mart and didn't really seem to have a lot of stuff to buy. I occasionally do go to a local Super Walmart, the one I go to is usually relatively uncluttered and has great prices on groceries, albeit the selection is too mainstream with no regional food products. Target is simply too far away for me and I don't like how the whole store is red and full of cheesy neon signs. The last thing I bought at Target was a dirt devil with a somewhat retro ('50s... odd since I thought dust busters were an 80s thing) look. The belt fell off the 2nd time I used it, so I returned it. They keep your credit/debit transactions on file (which can be a bad thing) so I was able to get my money back with no receipt. Wal-mart's blandness doesn't annoy me as much as Target's cheesiness, though the checkout lines are usually unreal.

I think you were the one who said he gets headaches when walking into Walmarts and I know what you're saying. There's this odor in the air that is distinctly Walmart and when I was younger I would get headaches from going there.

[runawayjim]

The first Bradlees was in the Groton/New London area. I don't really miss any of the old regional chains to be honest. They were much less aesthetically pleasing (dirty, cluttered) than a Wal-Mart and didn't really seem to have a lot of stuff to buy. I occasionally do go to a local Super Walmart, the one I go to is usually relatively uncluttered and has great prices on groceries, albeit the selection is too mainstream with no regional food products. Target is simply too far away for me and I don't like how the whole store is red and full of cheesy neon signs. The last thing I bought at Target was a dirt devil with a somewhat retro ('50s... odd since I thought dust busters were an 80s thing) look. The belt fell off the 2nd time I used it, so I returned it. They keep your credit/debit transactions on file (which can be a bad thing) so I was able to get my money back with no receipt. Wal-mart's blandness doesn't annoy me as much as Target's cheesiness, though the checkout lines are usually unreal.

I think you were the one who said he gets headaches when walking into Walmarts and I know what you're saying. There's this odor in the air that is distinctly Walmart and when I was younger I would get headaches from going there.

walmart is not aesthetically pleasing. nothing about it is. caldor and bradlees weren't meant to be huge monster stores. but they had everything you needed and were in many cases in the same shopping center as a grocery store.

when i need groceries, i go to a grocery store, not walmart, never walmart.

[PJA]

I like Wal-mart. I shop at Walmart every week. That's where I do my grocery shopping and it is cheaper. Now when it comes to other merchandise, I go elswhere. As far as cleanliness...what can you expect..they probably get 10 times as many customers as Target does. I like Target also but I think it's unfair to compare them both.

[Miesian Corners]

Saw this today. I laughed so hard, I had to pull off the road and snap a pic.