Christian Exodus to SC

[monsoon]

There is a good book on this subject American Facists The Christian Right and the War on America. South Carolina would seem to be one of the ground zeros for this Dominionist movement.

[Spartan]

Sounds like a book with an agenda to me.

[Pillsbury]

There is a good book on this subject American Facists The Christian Right and the War on America. South Carolina would seem to be one of the ground zeros for this Dominionist movement.

[monsoon]

There are a large number of people in South Carolina that are in economic despair and have little education or knowledge of the world beyond where they live. Perfect for the demagogues looking to exploit this. Also North Dakota's population is 650K, South Carolina's population is closing in on 5 million.

South Carolina's voting record of late reflects they have been successful.

[Spartan]

There are a large number of people in South Carolina that are in economic despair and have little education or knowledge of the world beyond where they live.

[krazeeboi]

I'm late to this party. How did 15 families get a thread that has seven pages to it? Find just about community in America and you can find 15 families are are whatever this group claims to be. Weird stuff...

[whitehourseview]

This thread was started LOOOOOOONG before the news about the 15 families in Anderson County. Comb through some of the earlier pages to see what we were discussing.

[krazeeboi]

How so? The first post in the thread started with a question, Have you heard about the Christian Exodus movement?

[whitehourseview]

Ummm, comb the first page a bit more thoroughly, LOL.

[krazeeboi]

What do you mean? Every post there refers to the Christian Exodus movement that has ended up with 15 families moving to Anderson. There is a mention of the Free State Project (whose leader I met because he married a girl from USC), but that's in comparison to the Christian Exodus movement.

[whitehourseview]

The CE movement was initially focused on Greenville, and someone mentioned something about 700 people having moved to SC in connection with the movement on the first page. I'm not sure if that was accurate or not, but the 15 families that have ended up moving to Anderson County was not news when this thread was created, as you seem to imply. More than anything, we were worried about the perception this would create. The group's choice of SC in which to set up shop was covered by some national news sources (e.g., an article appeared in GQ magazine), and that's what we were discussing.

[krazeeboi]

^You've been around long enough by now to know that just about any subject can spur several pages of discussion, especially something as sensationalist as this.

We actually talked about some of the local reactions to the news of this group establishing itself in the Upstate, as well as devolving into a discussion of Christianity and religion in general, which was bound to happen. Skim through some of the pages when you get a chance.

[crescentmoon]

There are certainly more than "15 families" and they didn't all end up in Anderson. There are, and have been families in Greenville, Spartanburg and Dorchester counties for some time. These were the original' "target" areas. While some of these MAY be among those who moved to Anderson, all did not. I know there are currently families in the Greer and Taylors area.

I don't mean to sound sinister, but much of this group has gone undercover and no longer openly state their connection to Christian Exodus. The same likely holds true for new families moving into the area. I suspect they were surprised they were not welcomed with the opened arms many expected and have decided a more subtle infiltration is more doable.

[krazeeboi]

Since they've discovered that many South Carolinians aren't as sympathetic to their cause as they thought, they might as well stop trying. I thought that's why they chose us to begin with--they thought we'd be all gung-ho about it. We just need to make sure we thoroughly question these politicians that are running for office. That's not to say that any politician with conservative leanings are CE of course, since this is a conservative state, but questions regarding our status as a state, our place in the Union, and the role of the Constitution aren't off limits, if you ask me.

[Spartan]

Since they've discovered that many South Carolinians aren't as sympathetic to their cause as they thought, they might as well stop trying. I thought that's why they chose us to begin with--they thought we'd be all gung-ho about it. We just need to make sure we thoroughly question these politicians that are running for office. That's not to say that any politician with conservative leanings are CE of course, since this is a conservative state, but questions regarding our status as a state, our place in the Union, and the role of the Constitution aren't off limits, if you ask me.

[krazeeboi]

If they want to move here and be productive citizens than I'm ok with that. I have a feeling that most people in this state would not support their ideas. Certainly SOME would, but they would be no different than any other crazy group of people in the nation. I think the perception of SC as a potentially secsesionist state is not the reality. These people will find that kind of talk as a serious candidate (if they got that far, which I doubt) unproductive.

[crescentmoon]

I don't think they have chosen South Carolina because of our secessionist history. I think they chose South Carolina because of our history of voting for candidates for broad moral or ideological reasons without thoughtful consideration of the actual issues related to the proper function of government. Largely, South Carolinians vote by party label. (This is not a slam at one particular party -- it goes both ways.) Getting beyond the surface and actually caring about issues related to a candidate's potential office is a rarity around here. This combined with the naivety and lack of education or knowledge of many in our state makes us a perfect gullible target for these seemingly small groups.

[krazeeboi]

^I don't think we have a monopoly on that. What you said holds just as true (or even more so) for AL and MS, so why did the organization not pick one of those states? I believe our secessionist history did indeed play a part in CE's decision to set up shop here.

[LJinPA]

OK I have a few questions perhaps hypothetical...If they were to succeed South Carolina has interstates 85 and 95 going right through it plus train routes. Many people from the populated Northeast go through the state to travel to FL. Also A lot of the goods and citrus fruit and winter crops are shipped from Florida to the Northeast via 95...Would they then have to have a passport or go through customs? They also want to strongly restrict Immigration but how long would it take to build a wall around the state? What would happen to the military bases... I know a lot of guys joining the service go to FT. Jackson for basic and that SC is important for the US military. What about the many Northern York County residents who commute to Charlotte. Would they have to go through customs to get to work? This can also split up the Augusta Metro area...

I am very aware this is quite far fetched but CE is not alone in wanting secession- some groups want all the South including Maryland to succeed. Being a former Social Science major this stuff intrigues me as well as concerns me.

If you look at the CE website they are already printing SC currency (and it's kind of pretty)lol...

Doing a couple google searches it seems they have a very close alliance (esp Cory Burnell) with The League of the South... which according to the Southern Poverty Law Center is a hate group and has a strong prescence in the area between Greenville, Anderson, Greenwood, Lexington...

I don't think extreme groups should be ignored- the groups people say are dumb hicks or crazy zealots can be dumb and crazy as foxes esp with the internet. Many have traded their crazy costumes for a suit and tie and looking at one site for the KKK, if it weren't for the name some people would have to read on for a while to realize it's a hate group since what was written was articulate and manipulative...Expressing sympathies that many mainline conservatives and Christians share...

Personally I'm a Catholic (not really a liberal but gay and lean libertarian on some social issues). I actually agree with the one person from Bob Jones saying that Christianity is best spread by love and example rather than the iron fist. There seems to be a rise in Paleo-Conservatism (the populist Conservatism of Pat Buchannan, Tom Tancredo, David Duke, the former agrarian South...) as opposed to the somewhat more "cosmopolitan" business-like, pro agressive foreign policy NEO-conservatism of the Bushes, Cheyneys, McCain, Condi Rice, Irving Kristol, Ben Stein, David Horowitz along with a few other Jewish intellectuals...Google the terms or go to Wikipedia for a better explaination. Although the "paleo-conservative" movement seems to be big in the rural South and among evangelical protestants though it is making in-roads with SOME traditionalist Catholics. It is also closely alligned with the Constitution Party... One Catholic writer GK Chesterton promoted similar views and I always liked his work... I even share the sentiment of being suspicious of big business/big government/big institutions, and of course beaurocracy... But it seems that in practice this "populism" seems to have a correlation with intolerance, scapegoating, fear, conspiracy theories (esp toward Gay People, Feminists, Jews and Free-Masons), and lots of people including intelligent and educated ones getting brainwashed...Also tryign to spread propaganda on what people and what groups are the all-good guys and who the all-bad guys are. (This definately goes for the far left as well as the far right). (Jesus did say somewhere in the beatitudes "Blessed are the Peacemakers" All this is just a pattern that have observed...I'm not against populism in and of itself or against paleo-conservatives and their rights.

Looking at the nice photos on this forum SC seems to be making a lot of progress. A friend from up my way who is kinda jaded, has seen half the world and probably never heard of Greenville was there last fall and was quite pleasantly surprised. Christian Exodus can do a lot of damage to SC's reputation. I mean some tolerant person could start a movement across the border in NC to moce tolerant, open minded people to take over NC and start with Asheville but seriously I dont like the idea of this red state blue state mentality that they have to segregate by ideology...And as a Christian and given the true loving nature if Christianity I am suspicious of any movement that contains the word "Seperatist".

[monsoon]

I am very aware this is quite far fetched but CE is not alone in wanting secession- some groups want all the South including Maryland to succeed. Being a former Social Science major this stuff intrigues me as well as concerns me.

[interestedexpat]

I would echo Metro.M's comments. This CE group has miscalculated. The forums on the Anderson Independent website make clear that even the far far right in Anderson (which is known for being far right politically) are not going to embrace CE. If anything CE will end up making the Republican party in Anderson area more moderate because they will need to distance themselves from the lunatic fringe.

I agree that CE shouldn't be ignored ...if for no other reason than they will mislead people about their true intentions. But I'm actually hopeful that the attention will push the state into a more moderate political climate.

They only way for this to go wrong would be for people who are NOT from South Carolina to get involved in telling people who are from SC what to do. Then all bets are off. Southerners resent being told what to do from outsiders. And they'll do what you don't want them to do just to make a point... even if it goes against what they would have done on their own.

[Spartan]

Hey we all want to succeed in life, dont we?

Secession in this day and age would be impossible. The United States, "in theory," is is group of separate goverments that decided to join up for a common cause. The term "united" itself implies that there is the possibility to be separated. In the 1700s this may have been the case. The economies were much more localized back then. Today, however, we are so linked together for all the reasons you gave that even the notion of secession would be economic and political suicide. Hell it was back in 1861 too. South Carolina's economy was in the crapper for the better part of 40 years until the textile industry made its way here in the 1890s.

You may also want to check out The Republic of Cascadia who has arguably made more success than the CE group.

These looney people exist all over the world. I'm not concerned.

[LJinPA]

You might not realize it, but you are putting forth the some old tired stereotype the South and SC are full of ignorant hateful people that are still fighting the Civil War.

Metro: I will have to disagree, my main intent of my post was to figure out the logistics behind their plan. I understand this is a hard topic to discuss and ask questions about online without at least one person taking something the worng way, out of context, or interpreting an observation or a curiosity as a sneaky way of judging people. My post was to be about CE and their impact (which theoretically if they got their way it could affect the whole country) not about the south, the north and which is better. As far as Vermont I know less about but I do not deny there are fanatics in all regions of the world. Vermont is also a good target since its a small state in both people and sq miles, it leans a certain way ideologically... And that could be why states like VT and Hawaii ended up passing controversial positins on "marriage" rather than CA or NY being the first.

Ive traveled to the Carolinas a few times but never lived there and am not trying to fancy myself as an expert but I make these posts to ask people who do live there to help explain what I read in the media and on the internet so that I can have a balanced perspective. I can assure you guys that I have no intention of bashing the south with God as my witness. I admit I have made some comments on SSP long before Urban Planet existed that were ill-spoken and could have been worded better but that was 6-7 yrs ago and I'm a lot more careful now. Im not a professional writer or journalist though. I realize that the extremists are a small minority anywhere but they do make the most noise. I doubt even many of the most conservative Republicans or Constitutionalists would want to go through all that aggravation so they can live away from "Sodomites" which exist and have existed in just about every world culture.

For the record I found a member and promoter of CE on a different forum and asked the same ? about how this seccession would work. The guy responded quickly but could not answer except that they will cross that bridge when they come to it. He also defended the League of the South. I looked around the LoS website and while I don't see a lot of overt hate on it some of their articles do have some hate rhetoric. CE doesn't make their plans too well known and are not clear about which 6 counties they picked out...

I agree a lot with Spartan... In a way were almost like the EU except you have different languages in each country in the EU and one still has to show a passport to cross borders.

Even the Quebecois would have a hard time as it Would cut mainland Canada from it's maritime provinces. It would be easier for Nova Scotia or Newfoundland to seceed logistically (or even South Florida).

[mallguy]

Christians need to stand up and point out that Christianity as they practice it has next to nothing in common with the Christian Exodus version. I don't want the South tarred by association with the CE group, but I especially don't want Christianity tarred by them. (I view the Southern Poverty Law Center as a radical leftist group, so I don't want to take its side, either.)

[Pillsbury]

There is no chance of any group taking SC or any other state out of the Union. A group could, however, gain power, play on the conservative sympathies of its already conservative-leaning population, fabricate certain issues to motivate that population, and then use their power to put even more conservative and draconian laws into place, even in the face of a majority opposition due to historic voting patterns.