Hampton Roads Housing/Real estate/and Economy

[Padman]

This is good news, and I'm glad of it. I wonder though, isn't the rest of the nation also pursuing biotech, and other "high tech" science? With the possible exception of military related computer simulation, It always strikes me that this region is more of a follower than an innovator. I wonder what is being looked at in the area of tidal and wave energy research and development. You would think we'd be a perfect fit for new industry in that area. VA TECH,ODU, UVA, NOAA, the Navy and even Nauticus could play roles there. Then there's the threat of global warming. Whether or not you believe in man made causation, our region still needs to pursue some technological defenses. Why not develop and test ideas here?

[rusthebuss]

This is good news, and I'm glad of it. I wonder though, isn't the rest of the nation also pursuing biotech, and other "high tech" science? With the possible exception of military related computer simulation, It always strikes me that this region is more of a follower than an innovator. I wonder what is being looked at in the area of tidal and wave energy research and development. You would think we'd be a perfect fit for new industry in that area. VA TECH,ODU, UVA, NOAA, the Navy and even Nauticus could play roles there. Then there's the threat of global warming. Whether or not you believe in man made causation, our region still needs to pursue some technological defenses. Why not develop and test ideas here?

I've too wondered why we weren't a more innovative region. I guess because the people that are innovative move to another region. I think that the stereotype of the region being just military kills it.

[scm]

I've too wondered why we weren't a more innovative region. I guess because the people that are innovative move to another region. I think that the stereotype of the region being just military kills it.

Rus, I think this is the sixty four million dollar question. I have thought about it many times. Let me throw out some observations.

1. There is a serious absence of entrepreneural mind sets here. When you look at the start-ups that have been successful (grown to over 500 employees), you can count them on two hands -- AMSEC, Amerigroup, AMTI, CBN. That's about it. There aren't role models for people to emulate.

2. This is an area that is very adverse to risk, or change. The steady "churn" in the market caused by Navy payrolls, and the services those dollars buy, produces enough economic activity to live on, so there is no motivation to take risk. Our largest employer attracts and retains folks who abhor personal financial risk. The only wealthy people here, almost universally made it in development. They didn't create a new business process, or product or service -- they took land, and to meet the demands produced by steady Navy payrolls, they created housing. Look at the page upon page of RE agent awards in the paper, and you will see what the #1 civilian industry is here -- real estate.

3. A corollary to #2 -- there is a great willingess to accept mediocrity here (that will set off a fire storm!). We have mediocre restaurants, we have mediocre physicians (trust me -- I am in a position to know on this one), we have mediocre building design, we have mediocre politicians..... You name it -- the lame, of every profession, can hide out here at the end of the road.

4. Portfolio Weekly has beotched about this, but HR is at best neutral to the "creative class". (I am being generous here -- Professor Richard Florida popularized this concept -- you can read more here but Norfolk ranks next to last in metro areas over 1 million in his "creativity index"). Blame it on the Navy, blame it on Virginia, blame it on the high percentage of service jobs here. But as long as it exists, then don't look for a rise in innovation and technology business creation, no matter how much grant money finds its way here.

If you need any evidence, look at the number of bright, young, creative people on this forum that have left HR. 'Nuff said.

[Telmnstr]

If you need any evidence, look at the number of bright, young, creative people on this forum that have left HR. 'Nuff said.

I have lots of business ideas, lots of projects... but pretty much gave up. When I contacted local businesses to see if they would participate in various projects, they were ho-humm. When I had a business, I found people to be cheap. I was in NYC for a single weekend helping out with a project, and people were approaching _ME_ giving my friend and myself kudos. I was in shock, because this guy had a bar that had just been featured on Late Night with Dave Attel on comedy central. Still have that biz card :-) I think the environment here is just bad. One of my systems was a marketing setup for various local bars and resturants, tied to tourism!? And I was offering things for free, willing to pay it out of my pocket to try to get things off the ground. I have little money for capital, because the jobs don't pay good and we never really had the rounds of IPOs and stuff that generated a bunch of money in young hands. This happened in other areas, and spawned off lots of new companies. We had a few, and they either blew up or sold out (Oop.com sold out, greatbridge.com blew up, etc).

I've been to the tech get togethers that the HRTC puts on. I just felt out of place. Some of the people I knew there, they had nothing to do with innovation or technology. I thank the incubator for whatever it does, but overall... yea I think HR is a let down. I think it's the mindset of the entire region. The main business success, and most of the good paying jobs, come from the gov't. There are a few exceptions, and I actually worked for a small startup in Norfolk for a while. They cheated me out of money, their business goals seemed way off from what I've experienced working in the market they are targeting, but I will say it was much more rewarding than working for a gov't contractor. 10 times over. But there aren't many of those in the area. That one was a fluke, and a good portion of the world known talent all telecommuted and griped about the company being in Norfolk.

Everyone will say "WELL THEN WHY DON'T YOU LEAVE" and I will reply, I'm looking at the DC area. The why don't you leave line is a cop out, because I'm the only vocal person I know that comments in public on the subject.

Once again I work for what should be one of the bestest places to work in the area, and it's like a !@#(!@#ing morge. The most boring environment, absolutely 100% unchallenging. I can't wait for the day to end. And yea, I've worked for all the names. NASA, JFCOM, NMCI, JLAB. If I wanted to be unchallenged and punch a time card, the jobs would be fine. But I prefer to innovate things.

I'm supposed to go before the Norfolk event council to propose a system I'm making (in my spare time) to synchronize the illumination of the downtown Norfolk skyline... so every night the buildings come on in a neat pattern across the skyline each night. No idea if they will bite, but tell me who else does this type of stuff? I've got a pretty long list of projects I've tried to start, but little money. Jobs pay crap compared to the cost of living now. I have friends that were local, and left. Got ZERO respect here, now are millionaires and have contacts all over, their companies appreciate them.

Companies like HR because labor is cheap, and they profit more.

[urbanvb]

It has been said millions of times on this site from myself (and others) the need and wish for high paying jobs. That said, I don't see this area growing substantially as far as good paying jobs relocating to our region. You may well do better off in DC or NY although the cost of living is well beyond what it is here.

Edited April 3, 2007 by urbanvb

[Telmnstr]

It has been said millions of times on this site from myself (and others) the need and wish for high paying jobs. That said, I don't see this area growing substantially as far as good paying jobs relocating to our region. You may well do better off in DC or NY although the cost of living is well beyond what it is here.

Everybody would LOOOOVE high paying jobs, but there has to be real incentive to come here. And I'm not talking tax breaks. A friend tells me that Norfolk Southern's HQ is here because the head dudes daughter wanted to go to VWC .... That is why their operations are elsewhere.

I wonder if new large corporations came here, if the old money that is in town would get jealous? Would it be in their interest? If your the #1 kid on teh block, you don't want someone newer and cooler moving in. The elite wouldn't be so elite?

[rusthebuss]

I think this area could grow but we really need the right catalyst to emerge. I'm not sure what it is but people need to stop complaining and do something about it. If we put our heads together we could start something. The Hampton Roads Tech whatever you call it is the biggest joke in the world. The people in the city councils are jokes. We need alot of changes in this region and people need to step up to make those changes. Things don't change by writing them in forums. If we as a group want to change things we are going to have to come together and make these changes. As young professionals we need to step it up and do our part.

[Telmnstr]

I think this area could grow but we really need the right catalyst to emerge. I'm not sure what it is but people need to stop complaining and do something about it. If we put our heads together we could start something. The Hampton Roads Tech whatever you call it is the biggest joke in the world. The people in the city councils are jokes. We need alot of changes in this region and people need to step up to make those changes. Things don't change by writing them in forums. If we as a group want to change things we are going to have to come together and make these changes. As young professionals we need to step it up and do our part.

We're RIGHT (YEA)

We'll FIGHT (YEA)

You'll sEEEEEEeeEEEeEeEEeeeE!!! WOAH OH OH OH

(We're not gonna take it... no we ain't gonna take it).

Have you seen startup.com the movie? It's interesting how the VC's on sandhill road treat the people from NYC. Basically the VCs (these are the really powerful ones in the industry) tell them that NYC is the wrong coast, and if they are serious they will move to Silicon Valley.

[adctvmonkey]

I don't meant to throw a wet blanket, but I was the one who commented on the Census post about moving to NoVa. Frankly, I love Hampton Roads, but it just isn't the place to be. The atmosphere is, well, like stated above, too mediocre. Even with the sky-high housing costs here in the DC area, I personally like it here more because of all the entertainment venues, restaurants, retail, etc. that are thriving, rather than balancing on risk. But I really, REALLY wish the best for Hampton Roads, as it's too good of a place to go to waste .

[wrldcoupe4]

Forbes named the Hampton Roads area the 26th best place for business and careers for 2007.

[scm]

Forbes named the Hampton Roads area the 26th best place for business and careers for 2007.

Here is a link to the full list: Best Places For Business And Careers

Important to note that only low costs got us that high a ranking -- we were 23rd in costs, but 114th in % of population over 25 with a bachelor's degree. Interesting to sort the list by education, and see that the highest cost areas had the best education scores. Dovetails perfectly with Dr. Florida's thesis that smarts are the "cash crop" of the 21st century. Until we improve education here, we are doomed to remain a backwater, in many ways.

[4307]

Have you seen startup.com the movie? It's interesting how the VC's on sandhill road treat the people from NYC. Basically the VCs (these are the really powerful ones in the industry) tell them that NYC is the wrong coast, and if they are serious they will move to Silicon Valley.

That gives me an idea. The Hampton Roads technology councils should talk to the Northern Virginia venture capitalists/tech. councils about the emerging modeling and simulation Hampton Roads situation, to get a head-start.

I used to live in the Silicon Valley (very pleasant place). The only reason those venture capitalists are there is so that way they can be close to the start-ups where they can personally meet these companies, hear their proposals and monitor their progress. Thus, you can't be a VC in NYC homie.

Edited April 19, 2007 by 4307

[vdogg]

Virginia still firing on all cylinders

Activity remains strong in nearly all sectors throughout Virginia. With the possible exception of condominium projects, construction activity remains active throughout most of Virginia, including the state

[vdogg]

[Telmnstr]

I used to live in the Silicon Valley (very pleasant place). The only reason those venture capitalists are there is so that way they can be close to the start-ups where they can personally meet these companies, hear their proposals and monitor their progress. Thus, you can't be a VC in NYC homie.

Have you seen the movie "Startup.com?" It's a documentary, and they visit some of the real VCs on Sandhill Road in California. Even though their company (GovWorks) was in Silicon Alley, the capialists (that fund companies like eBay and Google) told them that no serious company would be on the east coast.

Kind of an eye opener.

Another week, 400+ more SFH's and Condos on the market in Hampton Roads: http://www.housingtracker.net/askingprices...lk-NewportNews/

It's almost a weekly event now!

Affordable housing in no time! Let's just hope DC goes down too.

Many of the subprime lenders are blowing up (60+ already gone). All of a sudden someone got the idea that perhaps it's a bad idea to loan 100% value on a house, which probably has a fraudulent appriasal, to people who have a history of not paying bills. Because... gasp... they don't pay the bills!? Who would have thought?

[Telmnstr]

So I rent from a company called Cavalier Land. It has been around for a while in Hampton Roads. It's my understanding that the company is owned by three people, one from Kaufman and Canoles law firm or something, someone from Century Concrete and some other company. They own a ton of buildings all over Norfolk, and own the property management company.

A dude named Marc Poutasse runs the company, even though he doesn't own it. Another "lady" named Toni Sires manages the office.

So I rent, everything was okay, and I refer a friend and also another person to them. So I'm responsible for hooking them up with 2 rentals, both over $1K a month. Not bad, you know?

So first thing happens is I mention the fact that the majority of the dryers do not dry clothes. This was to Poutasse. And the dude comes back with a statement about "yea but they are profitable so there is no problem" ... nice.

My friends had some issues, and the Toni lady was a complete ..... At times, my friend would be home and random people from the company would walk in on her, and then apologize because they didn't think she would be there. They came to show the apartment to other people. No appointment. And she wasn't moving out, they just simply wanted to show their renovations to contractors or something. This is against the law.

So finally my friends buy a condo. As part of the rules, they would either have to pay ~$9000 or so to get out of their lease, or find another renter. They found people interested in renting. They did a few things, just incase... and it worked. They asked the people (whom they showed their apartment to, and marketed to) to report back what happened when they went to the rental office. So when these people went to the rental office, Toni Sires tried to steal the people and put them in other apartments, leaving my friends hanging with their appartment. It was very unethical, and I'm thinking I might write to the Realtor board. Straight up sleeze.

Now today I get some letter saying my truck will be towed because I'm not allowed to have vehicles parked at my apartment all of the time. I had it out all weekend in Raleigh, I had it out last week... I just didn't have it out the first week or two because I was waiting on an appointment to get it inspected. Truck with huge video screen and expired inspection would get ticket fast.

Such is life with the slumlords in Norfolk.

I think he is getting crabby because ... well there is like 5 units opening up in the building. No one is willing to overpay for apartments anymore, and there are tons of them open.

I almost rented another building from the same guy, but I'm glad I didn't. The contract was mad nutty, with some pretty loopy terms in it. It contradicted itself a few times even, perhaps where they hacked in more restrictions but didn't read it themselves. In the end, a 6 month lease and me pay $2000+ for HVAC repairs? Yea eat it.

Edited April 24, 2007 by Telmnstr

[Telmnstr]

I saw an interesting comment on one of the housing blogs I read. IBM and other companies are starting to consider Americans too expensive to employ, and turning to overseas labor to help keep costs down. A huge factor in this is the skyrocking cost of housing. In order to attract talent, you have to lay down the big money so people can afford to live in your region.

Hampton Roads was long marketed as a place to come for totally cheap labor. Now with a cost of housing that is higher than regions such as Austin, TX and Raleigh, NC, why would Hampton Roads be at all attractive? What do you think will take the region into the future, and support our nosebleed housing costs?

Why would anyone who is not cashing out of a really expensive market want to move here?

[vdogg]

I saw an interesting comment on one of the housing blogs I read. IBM and other companies are starting to consider Americans too expensive to employ, and turning to overseas labor to help keep costs down. A huge factor in this is the skyrocking cost of housing. In order to attract talent, you have to lay down the big money so people can afford to live in your region.

This is old news and has been going on for decades. A lot of companies are jumping ship but I think it has more to do with being able to pay foreign workers a couple of dollars a day than it has to do with our housing situation here. Even with housing at pre-boom prices there is no way our wages would ever be as low as they are elsewhere. Health insurance, retirement benefits, etc, has a lot to do with that.

[Telmnstr]

Okay, what the heck is going on? When I look at the property management company's website that I rent from, I notice there is ... basically a RECORD number of units availible. There is more now than I've ever seen, and when I use archive.org to look at the years past it's still a record now.

Is it because of newer apartment buildings, that have added inventory and pulled people away?

Or is it just because of poor marketing by old people that don't understand the new ways?

Or are we loosing a bunch of people?

The small startup I worked for in downtown Norfolk, I just got word that the younger people that it had brought to Hampton Roads just left. One was living in ghent, the other bought a home in Elizabeth City and commuted. Still waiting to get the full scoop.

I wish there was a good way to get real stats on this stuff.

[vdogg]

Tel, how did I know that you would be the first one to comment on this article? A bit too much positive news for you?

ODU survey finds optimism despite housing slowdown

Sustained growth in Hampton Roads' retail sales, tourism and port activity this spring will offset the economic drag of slower residential construction, economists at Old Dominion University said in their latest forecast for the region.

The region's home-building industry, hit by a sharp downturn in the number and value of building permits earlier this year, "appears to be the only sector experiencing problems," Old Dominion's Economic Forecasting Project said in its forecast.

[erdogs]

Unemployment rate drops to 3 percent. That's pretty impressive.

http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?...80&ran=4805

[scm]

Food Lion to convert 18 local stores

Eight will be Bloom, ten will be Bottom Dollar. I've been to a Bloom in Fredericksburg. Great stores -- smaller scale versions of a blend of Whole Foods and TJs. I think most of you will be amazed that they have any connection to FL. Link is here.

Also, the entire story is in the e-archives, but not on the web page. If I post the e-archive link, can anyone see it? The link is: Food Lion to convert 18 local stores to new concepts. Here is the same story, with a peninsula focus from the Daily Press.

[urbanvb]

I think the Bloom concept is perfect for an upscale market for City Walk.

[Telmnstr]

Tel, how did I know that you would be the first one to comment on this article? A bit too much positive news for you?

ODU survey finds optimism despite housing slowdown

Heh! Sometimes when I post, they don't publish the comments until much later.... On purpose I think.

I'm just realistic.

If families are spending 30% of take home pay on housing instead of 60%, that leaves more for retirement, and other things. 15 year loans used to be the norm, now 30 year is. They spew lines like "no one lives there that long anyways." People just look at the monthly payment. Granted the houses are bigger.

If I had the money, I think I'd rather have a 2300sqft house sitting under solar panels over a 3300sqft power sucker.

[4307]

I'd rather have a 500,000 square foot old-timey castle that sucks NO power