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dubone

What NCDOT projects do you think are wasteful

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NCDOT just approved the 2006-2012 TIP. http://www.ncdot.org/planning/development/...6-2012_stip.pdf

I have started to look through and see what types of projects on the list.

This doesn't really need to be a discussion about how all urban loops are bad or anything like that... but what projects do you all think are redundant or wasteful.

They can either be funded or unfunded projects.

I have two to start with:

- R-3102 building a NC 58 as a freeway connection between Wilson and Kingston even though us117 and us70 are already being upgraded. $300m

- R-3436 building i74 through the swamps of brunswick county toward Myrtle Beach, even though SC is already building a more direct interstate to MB. (luckily this is still in evaluation phase, so could be easily cancelled... however this shows up everywhere on the strategic corridors lists)

I'm sure there are others that we can find.

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There are alot of projects that I think are wasteful. But, just to name a few I would say 1.Fayetteville's outer loop (just because it has a low population and they are building it just to provide better access to Ft. Bragg) <_< , 2. All the roads in the coast being upgraded to freeways ( just do a few, but not ALL!), 3. The airport connector between Winston and Greensboro (what's the point?) :blink: , 4. The Garden Parkway (again, what's the point?) and 5. I-74 through the swamps in Brunswick county (c'mon DOT pick another route, don't ruin nature). :(

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I will say the Airport Connector between Winston-Salem and Greensboro seems questionable right now. From what I gather, with the new FedEx hub and the Dell facility it will be needed. Of course, from an article in the Journal there is a possiblity that this may be NC's first toll road project!! :sick:

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The Garden Parkway will be a tollway parallel to I-85 and it would end at I-485 and connect with US 321 in Gastonia. I-85 in Gastonia and Charlotte already exceeded 100,000 cars a day. Widening it would be expensive especially in Gastonia with the limited ROW and I-85 is only 6 lanes there. I don't think Tollways are wasteful, since the general taxpayers aren't being taxed to pay for it.

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I will agree with I-295 project around Fayettville. I would prefer an urban exressway out of Fayetteville instead around it. There is nothing on the other side excet Fort Bragg and no one commutes from the other side of it anyway. The traffic is on the surface streets in retail districts. To me the loop is a waste. I have never gotten stuck in traffic on 95 passing trhough the (outskirts) of the city anyway. I lived there for 14 years and not onece have I heard of heavy traffic problems on that strectch of 95. Solution turn the All american freeway into a full interstate and extend it to 95 and forget about the loop.

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Exactly NcSc. I heard the only reason they wanted to build the freeway was for access to Fort Bragg. they're getting their beltway before winston does! :angry: we've been waiting for 6 years now!

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Exactly NcSc. I heard the only reason they wanted to build the freeway was for access to Fort Bragg. they're getting their beltway before winston does! :angry: we've been waiting for 6 years now!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yea i was blown when i heard that fayetteville was getting a loop before W-S. but then again, one of the heads of NCDOT is from Fayetteville and she pushed for her hometown's road projects to not get cut in funds like GSO W-S and CLT. The eastern counties and towns will be getting plenty construction/upgrades before some of us on the west side.

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i think the BIGGEST symbol of eastern NC waste is the nc58 upgrade to freeway i listed in my thread-starter.

Check out this map:

Not only will 117 be a freeway, as shown as a dashed line here, but Goldsboro will get a freeway bypass to make 70 a freeway. obviously 264 is already a freeway. I don't really have anything opposed to 264, 70 or even 117... but when you think about all those freeways for those tiny towns, it is OUTRAGEOUS that they are asking for 58 to be a freeway, too!!! all to shave maybe a few miles off the 117+70 freeway route between wilson and kingston. it sickens me to think about that when the piedmont has so many unfunded transportation needs.

http://207.4.62.65/GISftp/default.asp?dire...load=greene.jpg

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Well to top them all Charlotte is the states biggest city and they won't finish 485 (including the widening) until 2030 in my opinion. For the biggest city that's pretty pathetic. Why do they put money into the beach areas and Fayetteville? For me, driving to the beach and going through Darlington and Conway were normal events. They really weren't all that busy of roads anyway until you got to within 20 miles of Myrtle.

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i think the BIGGEST symbol of eastern NC waste is the nc58 upgrade to freeway i listed in my thread-starter.

Check out this map:

Not only will 117 be a freeway, as shown as a dashed line here, but Goldsboro will get a freeway bypass to make 70 a freeway.  obviously 264 is already a freeway.  I don't really have anything opposed to 264, 70 or even 117... but when you think about all those freeways for those tiny towns, it is OUTRAGEOUS that they are asking for 58 to be a freeway, too!!!  all to shave maybe a few miles off the 117+70 freeway route between wilson and kingston.  it sickens me to think about that when the piedmont has so many unfunded transportation needs.

http://207.4.62.65/GISftp/default.asp?dire...load=greene.jpg

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

finally somebody understands what I understand!

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i think the BIGGEST symbol of eastern NC waste is the nc58 upgrade to freeway i listed in my thread-starter.

Check out this map:

Not only will 117 be a freeway, as shown as a dashed line here, but Goldsboro will get a freeway bypass to make 70 a freeway.  obviously 264 is already a freeway.  I don't really have anything opposed to 264, 70 or even 117... but when you think about all those freeways for those tiny towns, it is OUTRAGEOUS that they are asking for 58 to be a freeway, too!!!  all to shave maybe a few miles off the 117+70 freeway route between wilson and kingston.  it sickens me to think about that when the piedmont has so many unfunded transportation needs.

http://207.4.62.65/GISftp/default.asp?dire...load=greene.jpg

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is the first that I've heard of the proposed NC 58 freeway, and I'm inclined to agree with you. How are they justifying the need for this?

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i have no idea. but it is on the tip.

R-3102 (on page 142)

http://www.ncdot.org/planning/development/...6-2012_stip.pdf

thankfully, it is not yet programmed for funding, so there might still be room to nip it in the bud... but just the fact that it was deemed important enough to add the tip really reveals an arrogance in eastern nc transportation planners. Just think about what highly necessary projects are waiting desperately for funding while the eastern divisions are including 300 million dollars in their request to build a redundant freeway through the middle of nowhere.

this one just steams me every time i think about it.

JoJo, talk to us... where is this coming from? what are the chances that rational thinkers in the dot will stop this wasteful project?

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This is the first that I've heard of the proposed NC 58 freeway, and I'm inclined to agree with you.  How are they justifying the need for this?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know but they must have some stupid reason. Like to create economic "growth." How much traffic really goes north & south on the coast. Is this supposed to be an alternate to I-95? :blink:

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I don't know but they must have some stupid reason. Like to create economic "growth." How much traffic really goes north & south on the coast. Is this supposed to be an alternate to I-95? :blink:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

upgrade of 117 to a freeway between 40 and wilson has has been planned for a long time, and i'm not even really against it, as i'm sure it shaves a bunch of time off of travel to wilmington, and 95 is getting congested enough that it will probably help.... but us58 is even redundant with 117.

If Raleigh and Charlotte aren't even important enough to get a direct freeway connection, and must use a more efficient arched route that goes through greensboro.... why can't kingston to wilson traffic take a few miles longer and go through goldsboro?

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upgrade of 117 to a freeway between 40 and wilson has has been planned for a long time, and i'm not even really against it, as i'm sure it shaves a bunch of time off of travel to wilmington, and 95 is getting congested enough that it will probably help....  but us58 is even redundant with 117. 

If Raleigh and Charlotte aren't even important enough to get a direct freeway connection, and must use a more efficient arched route that goes through greensboro.... why can't kingston to wilson traffic take a few miles longer and go through goldsboro?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No offense here.... but what are you talking about? We were talking about NC 58 as a freeway not 117, actually i've known of US 117 becoming a freeway.

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oh, i wasn't sure if you were saying that 95 was good enough and that also didn't need 117... but i realize now that wasn't what you were saying.

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oh it's alright, we all get confused on here at least once! ^_^

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

NCDOT needs to go to Texas and learn how to build freways.

They also should stop taking money out of the highway trust fund {1 Billion +}to spend on othe pork project or balance state budget.

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From reading the above posts, i am very confused here. First, i see NC 58 and US 58. US 58 is in southern Virginia and NC 58 is about 100 miles south of US 58. Infact, on I-95, you see on the signs "NC" 58 to clear up any confusion from the 58 north of the border.

As far as NCDOT projects that are wasteful, heres what i think.

NC 24/27 between Albemarle and western Harnett County

--- When theres US 64 and US 74 that are going to be four laned, why this road? Theres no problem with this road being four laned in the near future but i would go as far as acquiring the ROW (and buying land for future bypasses/relocations) and then four lane the road when the traffic volumes warrant it.

US 158 (mainly east of I-85)

--- I dont see how there is a lot of east-west movement on this road between the beach and lets say Oxford. Again, with smart planning, this road should go as far as acquring ROW and when it needs four lanes with increasing traffic volumes, do it then.

Really, no project is a waste of money, think about it. NCDOT is planning for the future. With personal experience up north, two lane roads today are not the way of getting around. You need four lanes or greater for quicker and safer mobility for inter-regional travel. This encourages the right growth as it helps the local-regional economy due to efficient travel. The road projects that need to be built, build them. I do not want to see NCDOT four lane every single project on that TIP but go as far, as i mentioned twice, buy up the land now for ROW and possible relocation/bypass alignments for towns or communities.

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Well to top them all Charlotte is the states biggest city and they won't finish 485 (including the widening) until 2030 in my opinion.  For the biggest city that's pretty pathetic.  Why do they put money into the beach areas and Fayetteville?  For me, driving to the beach and going through Darlington and Conway were normal events.  They really weren't all that busy of roads anyway until you got to within 20 miles of Myrtle.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I totally agree with you. North Carolina is very backwards with these practicalities. Hopefully, they can finish 485..including the widening...b4 2030...lol

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I suspect the reason NC 58 is being upgraded, and wastefully I might add, is to add a direct freeway link directly to the floundering NC Transpark in Kinston.

I do beleive I saw special funding for thiat route in the recently approved Fed Highway Bill.

The location of the NC Transpark in Kinston was a purely political. The idea was right. The location selected was wrong. The Transpark should have been built at the Laurinburg-Maxton Airport. That would have been right on the future I-74 and less than 25 miles to I-95. Also, it would have created more urgency to fully upgrade US 74 to a full freeway from Charlotte to Wilmington.

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One of the purposes of the GTP is to improve the eastern Carolina economy east of I-95. This is one of the reasons Kinston was chosen as its centrally located in the eastern portion of the state. In an earlier GTP post, i think the GTP would of been better off in Rocky Mount or Wilson with closer proximity to I-95.

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One of the purposes of the GTP is to improve the eastern Carolina economy east of I-95. This is one of the reasons Kinston was chosen as its centrally located in the eastern portion of the state. In an earlier GTP post, i think the GTP would of been better off in Rocky Mount or Wilson with closer proximity to I-95.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

that is fair enough (about GTP) BUT it doesn't mean that they should get redundant freeways. GTP has NOT so far helped the eastern Carolina economy, but Charlotte, Wilmington, Raleigh, Greensboro, Asheville, Winston and so on and so on DO help the economy of the whole state.... so why aren't we focused on relieving congestion in those cities and improving connectivity between those cities. having two to three freeway routes between wilson and kinston does not add value to anyone, even kinston... that is the definition of redundancy.

Transportation Department of Transportation

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having two to three freeway routes between wilson and kinston does not add value to anyone, even kinston...  that is the definition of redundancy.

Transportation Department of Transportation

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As of now, i believe it but in 20-30 years, we will have to wait and see if these freeway routes bring any return to improve the eastern carolina economy. I do believe that there should be a balance of distributing money so theres no greed where for example, one part of the state (or lets say the metro areas only) is/are getting all of the TIP money while the other (the rural areas) does not. You have to statisfy all residents of NC for reliable transportation around the state or otherwise, a small portion of the state is very attractive to new residents & commerce while everywhere else is not because the access getting there is not good. This normally ends up having these rural areas with a stagnent economy. I agree for the most part, the cities (especially Charlotte), needs more money to improve the transportation infrastructure for better mobility around the metro area but you cannot neglect the rural areas either.

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