Next Downtrodden Neighborhoods

[MZT]

So, what's your nomination for the next "tipping point" neighborhoods that are kinda OK, but entering their sketchy phase?

My nomination goes for the southeast, between lawyers and Independence, and East of WT Haris. This area has lots of vinyl sided mid 1980's homes that are being foreclosed on and turned into rentals.

Have you seen the big unfinished church on the south end of WT harris near Idlewyld? What's up with that? The thing is crumbling away in the weather.

The "wedge" right near lawyers and WT harris is going downhill the quickest. I think partly because it's so difficult to get out of there... there's only one street feeding out of it, and it's too difficult to turn left onto Lawyers to get out in the morning. (The odd thing, is many of these are fairly large 2 story homes. It looks like the development was intended to be somewhat of an affluent area.)

[fulcrumsf]

The Eastside of Charlotte in general is becoming the Westside in my opinion.

[nmcheese]

Two formerly nice areas (when they were the hot new sprawl area) that I've seen many houses for sale for quite cheap... seem to be going downhill:

1) The square between Sardis Rd, Sardis Rd N., Monroe, Rama Rd.

2) Sharon Rd W. Between Park and South.

[MZT]

NMCheese:

I thought about Sharon Road West, but didn't write it up because.... it's already a barrio. Seriously, that area is packed with foreclosed 1970's condominiums. You can scoop one up for 30K if you just keep making offers. It seems to stop at sugar creek, but I think the depreciation could spread east into Quail Corners / Park Road if the economy slips.

I live in Starmount, which is feeling pressure from the south (rentals for the immigrants that have climbed up from the dumps on Sharon Rd West) and from the north (professionals in uptown buying up fixers for 1/3 the price of Dilworth.) I feel like Starbrook/Arrowood road is currently the mental "dividing line."

Isn't the "diamond" you mentioned off Sardis the Stonehaven area? There's definately a story behind that one, people disappointed with their councilmember and the council and review boards in general.

[SmellyCat]

The area that straddles West W.T. Harris starting at around Sugar Creek Rd. and moving west toward I-77. I guess that would be considered western University City and North Derita. A landslide of cheap housing and new apartments are going up in that area. Today's new garden apartments are tomorrow's tenaments.

Perhaps Northlake Mall may rejuvenate that area since it will be close by, but I think all it's going to do is make traffic worse in the area.

[MZT]

Yeah some of those apartments on west WT Harris are truly bargain basement construction. Vinyl 3 story monoliths, with no windows on two sides, and minimal landscaping. Orange dirt splashes up from the rain and gives the siding an orange "skirt" on the bottom.

[f0xym0p]

I can't for the life of me figure out why they need so many apartment complexes in the university area. When I rented there, we had tons of empty apartments in my complex and since then at least 3 more complexes have gone up within a square mile of there. They build a new one and people move into it because it's pretty and then it fades as the next one is built.

I guess it's the same with all those housing complexes. Houses stay on the market forever because people can buy a brand new house for the same price as the existing ones. They're all going to be falling down in 20 years.

[SmellyCat]

^Exactly. How can they justify building when the market is so weak up there? Is the land that cheap?

Some of my favorite signs seen on WT Harris as of late: "Ooops, we just dropped our prices!" and "Free Dell Computer when you rent from us". Some of those areas truly are on the fringe of ghetto if you look at the comments on apartmentratings.com.

[A2]

I can't for the life of me figure out why they need so many apartment complexes in the university area. When I rented there, we had tons of empty apartments in my complex and since then at least 3 more complexes have gone up within a square mile of there.

[MZT]

Well SmellyCat succeeded in getting me to spend quite a few hours reading the apartment ratings (didn't know about that site).

I would expect a mismanaged complex to have run down appliances, insects, rude staff or noisy neighbors. I've encountered that at times in my life. But people are complaining about stolen cars, night time break-ins, shootings, drug deals, broken bottles, needles and condoms, etc.

Ugh. What's gotten into people? Makes me glad my apartment days are behind me.

I guess avoiding this kind of thing, is a large reason why commuters are willing to trek to Union county every day.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

I guess avoiding this kind of thing, is a large reason why commuters are willing to trek to Union county every day.

And live in gated subdivisons...

Its somewhat like going to a hotel, it has to be a certain price to keep certain people out. And im not saying that all less wealthy people are bad or all more wealthy people are good.

[monsoon]

It is spec development. Call Atlanta, they do the same thing in both Residential and Commercial/Office. I think Developers just see UC as the place to capture newbies. A lot of amentities, close proximity to I_85, I-77 I- 485 & WTHarris.  It's easy money for the Big guys since these developers pay a lot less for the land than they would in some of the more desireable areas closer in to CLT. So they have the justification of building BIG.  Thus large vacancies. They can stomach the vacant units since the land is cheaper. Then when the Unversity City area becomes even larger they are in the perfect position to capitalize on the growth.

A2

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The problem lies with the Charlotte City Council.

We all know that real estate developers will gladly rape and pillage the land with cheap development in return for the quick buck. A great deal of Charlotte development falls into this category. And we can't expect them to behave any differently. Most of our developers now are parts of national companies that have no interest in the long term effects of what they do to the community. Their focus in on this quarter's profit/loss spreadsheets.

Its the job of the local governments who have control of zoning, road building (somewhat) and control over water lines, to determine what the landscape could look like and in this matter the City Council continues to let the people here down time after time. If it is not in the downtown, or one of the exclusive nearby neighborhoods, then there is no stomach by Charlotte's government to stick by its planning comission.

So we get people going to Union county, and putting up gated communities as a result.

[MZT]

I lived in a lower-income complex once (probably 10% or less of the occupants spoke English as their first language) and it was fine. The management lived on site, and aggressively towed cars without guest stickers. There were a lot of day laborer types there, but they seemed to understand it was a place to rest after a hard day, not hang around getting drunk.

It just takes committed management that gives a hoot. But when things get out of hand, you get high occupant turnover, as well as staff turnover.

But none of that matters much, to out of state owners.

[f0xym0p]

The problem lies with the Charlotte City Council. 

We all know that real estate developers will gladly rape and pillage the land with cheap development in return for the quick buck.  A great deal of Charlotte development falls into this category.  And we can't expect them to behave any differently.  Most of our developers now are parts of national companies that have no interest in the long term effects of what they do to the community.  Their focus in on this quarter's profit/loss spreadsheets. 

Its the job of the local governments who have control of zoning, road building (somewhat) and control over water lines, to determine what the landscape could look like and in this matter the City Council continues to let the people here down time after time.  If it is not in the downtown, or one of the exclusive nearby neighborhoods, then there is no stomach by Charlotte's government to stick by its planning comission. 

So we get people going to Union county, and putting up gated communities as a result.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with you. I wish Charlotte would step up and do something about university, because it could and should be a really cool area, but instead its a wasteland of apartments, cheap houses, and chain stores and restaurants. It's certainly not what you think of as a "college town."

[Mike1]

My wife and I will be moving to Charlotte by the end of next month. Our jobs will be in Uptown and the South Charlotte areas. We've looked at the Charlotte Police website for crime stats and were dissapointed. Can anyone recommend a "safe" complex in South Charlotte regardless of price? Thanks!!!

[atlrvr]

They're almost all safe.......don't let crime stats confuse you.....most are at commercial properties and could be as minor as someone shoplifting.

If you want to be truly isolated from society though, look at anything in Ballantyne.

[csedwards72]

I'd do anything near SouthPark Mall; reasonably short commutes for both of you.

[appatone]

You should be fine anywhere in South Charlotte. I'm not recommending you do this BUT when I was 19 I had an apartment in S. Charlotte for a year and my roommates and I left the doors unlocked everyday whether someone was home or not, the same with our cars. We grew up in a more rural area so we didn't think much about it. However, during that year nothing was stolen or messed with in either our apartment or cars. Like I said, I'm not suggesting you leave the doors unlocked, or that if you do nothing will happen. But I am relating my honest experience and saying you shouldn't be too overly concerned about crime. I was younger and dumber and probably lucky I wasn't a victim of some minor theft but this wasn't that long ago and I don't think the stats have changed too much since I was there.

[mattiesdiner]

My wife and I will be moving to Charlotte by the end of next month.  Our jobs will be in Uptown and the South Charlotte areas.  We've looked at the Charlotte Police website for crime stats and were dissapointed.  Can anyone recommend a "safe" complex in South Charlotte regardless of price?  Thanks!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I recently read that uptown charlotte actually has the least amount of crime of all the police districts. That probably has something to do with the fact that it's also the least populated of the districts, but personally, I feel very safe in uptown. There are so many new and relatively new apartment buildings with great ameneties. If I were you, I would seriously consider a place right in uptown. Obviously the commute for the uptown job would be easy. Also, the commute to south charlotte would be less painful if you're coming from uptown--it's the reverse of the usual commuter's route, so you wouldn't be fighting the godawful traffic from south to uptown every morning and every evening.

[skysdalimit]

Good point mattie, how's that diner coming along anyways?

Anywhere from South Charlotte to Uptown should be fine, I've lived in South Charlotte all my life and have never been a victim of crime.

[appatone]

Although I don't know the stats I do know that Uptown's is lower if not the lowest crime rate in the city. And the reverse commutes are great.

[renovator]

Used to live in Starmount......but moved closer to SouthPark/Colony Rd. a couple months ago. My house sold for more than any other in the history of Starmount....however, I barely broke even when I tally all of my renovation expenses. I was there for eight years and was convinced it was going to be the next "big thing". My street improved over the years but others such as Starbrook, Woodstream, Rosecrest, and Archdale just seemed to get worse and worse with lots of rentals. Hopefully the lightrail will help things. I had 2 bullets hit the front of my house from the direction of Grand Oaks. Recently, my realtor told me she was having trouble getting people to look at houses south of Archdale. Hopefully Starmount wont be the next downtrodden neighborhood and will improve. It has now entered the "fragile" category in the quality of life index.

[DigitalSky]

^It seems that unfortunately a lot of the South Blvd corridor (south of South End, north of Carolina Pavillion) is in "decline" but as you said hopefully the light rail line will help

[MZT]

Renovator, I'm in Starmount and I bought two of those crummy rentals last year and fixed them up. I still think it's a neighborhood that has turned the corner, and recovering.

I agree though, that Grand Oaks is the pits. I hear car alarms and guns every weekend. The other thing that hurts Starmount, is that it's been been "carved" into EE Wadell High School's district. Most of Wadell is west of South Boulevard.

[renovator]

Glad to hear that some of the rentals are being fixed up in Starmount.......however with the school district going toward the west and all of the rentals on Arrowood and Sharon Lakes it seems like there is a lot to overcome. I really enjoyed the diversity of the neighborhood .....liked the layout and construction of the houses.........it just seems to be too far from downtown, not close enough to Southpark. Also, I wish the neighborhood association would get some balls and stand up to the slumlords and criminals. Since 1997, I pushed that neighborhood to install those entry signs.....which were donated by my company and another in the neighborhood. The residents would not join the association and we had poor membership numbers. You would think in a neighborhood with 1400 homes we would have more than 30 members! Anyway, I have many friends in Starmount and visit often...........hopefully my new investment in Foxcroft East/Governors Square will prove to be a positive experience.