NC Road Projects You Want To Be Funded and/or Done

[ChiefJoJo]

Now, I don't live in W-S, but from the perspective of an outsider, Green 40 does its job beautifully. There is a place in this world for sub-interstate freeways. Not everything needs to have high-speed stacked interchanges and a 65+mph speed limit. Let through traffic and trucks take the modern and very adequate bypass to the south of town; leave green 40 for local traffic only.

I agree, i was pointing out that it used to be THE PRIMARY E-W artery in one of the largest cities in NC, I-40. If it was required to do that job today, it would fail miserably. I'm also pointing out that there are worse freeways than 77/85 in Clt.

i understand about local priorities, but how are decisions made on new interchanges? It seems to me, for example, that some of the new-build projects get much more complicated and expensive interchanges. Is that a standards-based decision, and standards are higher now, so they require the triple-decker interchanges?

It's based on projected traffic volumes and facility types and standards. In a freeway to freeway interchange with very high volumes, like 485/77, you'll need a four level interchange (hey, it's the only 4-level in the state). If your going to spend millions on a brand new interchange of two interstates, you want to make sure it's done right the first time.

Does 485 really need the high speed interchanges? probably...

Does it need them more than independence needs an interchange at all with sharon amity and idlewild? i don't think so.

I agree, but it's not as simple as an either-or, plus these projects have unique funding sources--485 gets loop-only money, and Independence gets trust fund money. It may seem hard to understand why this is so, but if you think about it, there's a good reason to have funding specific projects. It provides a check and balance on spending.

in other words, does mumpo say "we need 485" and then NCDOT does the expensive federal studies and designs and says "$600m" and then mumpo needs to figure out how to fit the 600m into its budget based on priority? or are the line items much more refined than that, where mumpo says how wide and how advanced the interchange is?

Pretty much that's about right. NCDOT directs nearly all the large projects on interstates, and US/NC routes. MUMPO is certainly in volved in the planning and priorities from that point on... like the north versus south 485 issue in May and June. MUMPO's input determined what years to construct each segment.

I guess i figure why can't 485 (or any of the other freeway loops that are getting triple-decker/high speed ramps throughout the state) survive with a 35mph loop ramp for a decade or two, if so many other freeways are still surviving with theirs?

(of course, as i said before, i have mixed feelings, because i'd also be one to say why couldn't ncdot do it right to begin with, etc.)

Because #1, the 35 mph loop does function (if not well, it serves it's purpose) and #2 standards change over time, and if you are going to build a new freeway interchange, you want to build it up to standard--actually you pretty much have to by federal standards. If NCDOT rebuilt every road that was under-designed by todays standards, there'd be no money for anything else.

[JunktionFET]

ChiefJoJo, are there any existing interchanges that are at least proposed to be upgraded to "high speed" status? For example, my aforementioned US1/I-40 interchange in Cary? What about other new three or four level interchanges? Like I-540 and US70/I-40 in SE Wake County, or any other I-540 or I-485 interchanges?

[cosmoboy]

I actually kind of like green 40 in Winston-Salem. You're right, the speed limit is 45 through downtown for a reason. But it's not a major through route, traffic flows more or less smoothly, and it goes right through downtown. It would cost hundreds of millions of dollars and do untold damage to numerous neighborhoods if it was completely upgraded to a "modern" 55 or 65mph facility.

Now, I don't live in W-S, but from the perspective of an outsider, Green 40 does its job beautifully. There is a place in this world for sub-interstate freeways. Not everything needs to have high-speed stacked interchanges and a 65+mph speed limit. Let through traffic and trucks take the modern and very adequate bypass to the south of town; leave green 40 for local traffic only.

I-77, on the other hand, is a major through route. There's no way for a truck to bypass it. That's why 77 should be prioritized over Green 40.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As a former resident of Winston, Green 40 suits me and alot of other reidents just fine...somewhat. About, a year ago there was an article in the Winston-Salem Journal about how DOT proposed to shut down the freeway from Peters Creek Pkwy to MLK Dr. so they could modernize the freeway. The only real "modern" sections of the freeway are from the I-40/421/Bus 40 interchange to Peters Creek Pkwy and from 52 to Linville Rd. The local DOT said they wouldn't be adding any lanes but just adding lighting, center barrier, and some bridge replacements. The 2 worst things on the downtown stretch of Bus 40 is the Liberty St Bridge and the small amount of room they give you to accelerate from when you enter. One thing I particually hate is that there is hardly any lighting! Alot of truck traffic uses that road and i'm sure they would appreciate it. The road's purpose today is for people commuting in from Lewisville, Clemmons and Kernersville and commuting out.

There were also talks about upgrading the entire highway and renumbering it a 3-digit interstate once the northern beltway was complete. I do have to admit some of you guys out there in Raleigh, Charlotte, and Greensboro need some money to fix up some of your crappy highways that the DOT designed. But, not Wilmington, Fayetteville, and Asheville. Our beltway has been postponed for 6 years and beyond because of these new beltways and rural roads that have been constructed.

[Sabaidee]

Business 40 east of MLK is pretty nice, even though NCDOT did reconstruct parts of it within that very small ROW. I remember going to an art gallery for a class assignment in downtown, the entrance ramp was very short and cuvry coming off of Business 40, it's almost dangerous.

[cosmoboy]

what has got to be the most DANGEROUS part of Bus. 40 is entering from Liberty St and then right as you enter there is the exit ramp for Cherry St in the SAME lane.

[Sabaidee]

During rush hour, some people don't want to merge, they just stop on the merge lane until there's a clearing they feel comfortable with to merge.

[cosmoboy]

During rush hour, some people don't want to merge, they just stop on the merge lane until there's a clearing they feel comfortable with to merge.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, but c'mon would you rather have it the way it is or would you rather have a nice interstate ramp that you feel safer on? Just asking.

[Sabaidee]

Something safe, I mean I don't live in Winston, I'm just there for school, but I do get around town and when ever I'm on US 52 or Bus 40, I'm always scared.

[cosmoboy]

Something safe, I mean I don't live in Winston, I'm just there for school, but I do get around town and when ever I'm on US 52 or Bus 40, I'm always scared.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah same with me. But, they are "trying" to improve the roadways. Oh and by the way which school in winston do you go to?

[dubone]

i think they should incrementally improve us52 and old40. i think 52 should be higher priority because it has no alternates.

I agree there is a place for a 45mph old-standards freeway, but surely they can make some lower-impact changes to improve the safety, such as lengthening bridges over time.

[cosmoboy]

agreed!

[Sabaidee]

Cosmoboy, I attend Winston-Salem State, which is at the corner where US 52 and Bus 40 intersect. I take US 52 to go to Charlotte and I use Bus 40 to get to I-40 to visit my friends at NC A&T.

[cosmoboy]

Cosmoboy, I attend Winston-Salem State, which is at the corner where US 52 and Bus 40 intersect. I take US 52 to go to Charlotte and I use Bus 40 to get to I-40 to visit my friends at NC A&T.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, I definitley know where it is. I am a resident of Winston but I go to UNC over in the Triangle. I just come back over here for summer and stay with friends. I've actually lived here all my life except for a small portion up in Northern New Jersey. Anyway, back to our topic!

[Sabaidee]

I forgot to mention the new I-40 in Winston-Salem has some weird interchanges like I-40 with Peters Creek and Silas Creek. Lol also Winston-Salem is just like Charlotte with roads naming Creeks. Charlotte has Mallard Creek and Sugar Creek.

[suburban george3]

I do NOT like the interchange that the DOT designed for I-40/Peters Creek. If you are getting off the interstate Westbound and want to go south on Peters Creek, you must move over 2 lanes towards the end of the off ramp. During afternoon/early evening hours, this can be quite a challenge.

Also, If you're coming northbound on Peters Creek, people jockey for position and cut you like crazy to get in the turn lanes for I-40. Not to mention the ones who are in the right lane (which would take you East) but actually are going to cut you off to get in the left lane(westbound). I have to fight this everyday!!

[Sabaidee]

Yea, I've experienced that problem before trying to get into the far right lane to go South on Peter's Creek. You have to make a quick merge, then there's people coming off from Eastbound I-40 trying to go North on Peters Creek while you are trying to go South.

[cosmoboy]

What always gets me is why does the NCDOT have to always build these spread out interchanges? Good examples of this would be in Charlotte on the western side where I-485 meets I-85 and on the eastern side of Greensboro where I-40/I-85 meets I-840 and new bypass I-85.

[Sabaidee]

I think I-485 and I-85 interchange was complicated because Wilkinson Blvd is less than a mile from I-85.

[cosmoboy]

Yeah but they could've given the interchange flyover ramps and it would've been a "modern" greeting to charlotte and the airport. That would've looked cool!

[NcSc74]

NCDOT has been frustrating me for years. Our interchanges in the state as a whole are weak. I am guessing it is a money issue but come on look at how much land and space the spread out sprawling interchanges take up. Also NIMBYers have a big say in this issue as well. When will NC grow up and leave the 1950's attitude behind. Look at our new interstates. 485 outdated the minute it opened. 440 the interchanges the 4 lanes is some sections when it should be no less than 6. Two business 40s (how confusing) in the Triad. Raise my taxes (I will give up 2 cents) on every dollar I spend on and in NC to fund NCDOT to grow up.

[cosmoboy]

Your right, but I-485 really wasn't outdated it just under desinged which made it look old because of all the wear and tear on the road. I wish they could've made it look like the northern part of the perimeter in Atlanta, then we would not have had all the problems we have today on that "underdesigned road."

[ChiefJoJo]

Yeah but they could've given the interchange flyover ramps and it would've been a "modern" greeting to charlotte and the airport. That would've looked cool!

I agree, but would you like your tax dollars spent on something because it "looked cool?"

I wish they could've made it look like the northern part of the perimeter in Atlanta, then we would not have had all the problems we have today on that "underdesigned road."

485 in Clt doesn't equal 285 in Atl. I would guess that 285 has at least double the traffic--esp. at the GA 400, I-75, & 85 interchanges.

[cosmoboy]

I agree, but would you like your tax dollars spent on something because it "looked cool?"

485 in Clt doesn't equal 285 in Atl.  I would guess that 285 has at least double the traffic--esp. at the GA 400, I-75, & 85 interchanges.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well I was hoping that in the first run they could've made 485 4-5 lanes each way for the entire southern portion that way they wouldn't be having the controversey they're having now. Oh Well!

[monsoon]

485 in Clt doesn't equal 285 in Atl.  I would guess that 285 has at least double the traffic--esp. at the GA 400, I-75, & 85 interchanges.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I will point out that when it was built 285 more resembled what is being built here in CLT. They had to go back and do a very expensive and painful retrofit to the existing road to handle the traffic when they discovered what was built was woefully inadequate for the area. (sound familiar)

285 is also like it is because of very bad planning in Atlanta. I hope we never see anything like that here.

[jasoniman24]

i think they should incrementally improve us52 and old40.  i think 52 should be higher priority because it has no alternates. 

I agree there is a place for a 45mph old-standards freeway, but surely they can make some lower-impact changes to improve the safety, such as lengthening bridges over time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They really need to do something with the I-40 / 52 cloverleaf interchange in Winston. Trying to merge from 52 to I-40 east or westbound can be a real challenge, especially during rush hour. This stretch of I-40 and the interchange is actually older than the rest of "new 40". This should have been updated during construction of the "new 40".