Metro Atlanta's Updated Pop. Count is 5 mill?

[Lady Celeste]

Remember the old adage, "be careful what you wish for."?

Today is a lazy day for me. I am not showing any homes, fielding any clients...just relaxing. I was brousing the Emporis site for construction information on the 13 buildings currently under construction here in Atlanta. When I go to the Atlanta page, I noticed that Emporis has metro Atlanta's population count at 5,034,362. Where did they get that number from and why has this milestone not been mentioned in the news?

Five million people!!!!!

Five million people is a whole lot of people. The metro as a whole is growing by leaps and bounds. Even the city center is now red hot. The Novare Group can't build condominium buildings fast enough. They sell out before they are even finished. As a very long time citizen of metro Atlanta, we have always wished for a much more vibrant city. I remember when the Atlanta skyline we see today looked nothing like it does now.

While this growth is great for my purse, I do have to lament a bit. For those of us who have been here for longer than 15 years can remember a more laid back city. Not to date myself but I remember when I-285 was three lanes in each direction. When I was in high school and our football team was going to play Milton High school in Alpharetta, we called them the "country boys." Alpharetta was no more than it's small town. With growth comes change.....some good, some bad. Atlanta metro is not as southern as it used to be.

For the life of me, I can't understand why there isn't some sort of coalition between the plethora of city and county governments in the metro area. I don't see Atlanta's growth slowing to zero in the next 10 years. Even at 5% growth/yr of 5,000,000 people, that is 250,000 new citizens every year. And that is the people the census can count. The current infrastructure, parks and schools can barely absorb that amount of people. I think the governor, either current or future, should look at this as a legacy item. To unite the metro area to work together for the greater good. To keep the quality of life high.....which is what attracts so many people to the metro area in spite of an anemic economy.....must be the number one priority. This should supercede politican affiliation, race, socio-economic standing, religious convictions or sexual preference.

A united Atlanta.....and when I say Atlanta I am talking about the metro as a whole...is a strong and vibrant Atlanta. The city proper needs the metro and the metro needs the city proper. One Vision, One Goal, One Destiny!!!!!

And that's my Saturday commentary..........

[Spartan]

The 5 million number probably comes from the 2004 Census Estimates. I didnt realize it was that high either.

[ryancs]

Actually there are a couple of figures I've seen for Atlanta population MSA and CMSA (CMSA is a larger area). Atlanta is about 4.7 million in the MSA and 5.2 million in the CMSA so I'm not sure where Emporis got their figures as they stand right in the middle.

As far as population growth rates go, the other figure I've seen is that the Atlanta metro is growing by 100,000 people / yr...so in 10 years there will be another million in the metro area. What spurs this growth? Good jobs! My wife and I moved here summer of '04 from SW Florida for job flexibility and to be closer to family in town. The influx continues as my in-laws followed us up (for good or bad).

I must say, for a population of 5 mil, Atlanta feels like a city a third of its size - which I like. However, if it keeps adding people and towers at the current rate and the small city feel will be lost soon enough.

[teshadoh]

^ Sorry if you feel I'm being picky, but it is CSA now - not CMSA.

But I believe the 100k a year gain that existed in the 90's is now less, but not by much.

[ryancs]

No problem...I can remember the numbers know nothing of MSA, CMSA or CSA.

[socaguy]

^  Sorry if you feel I'm being picky, but it is CSA now - not CMSA.

But I believe the 100k a year gain that existed in the 90's is now less, but not by much.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do illegal aliens get counted or "estimated in" during these updates? If not Atlanta's CMSA probably is more like 5.6 million.

[Spartan]

Do illegal aliens get counted or "estimated in" during these updates?  If not Atlanta's CMSA probably is more like 5.6 million.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They are supposedly counted. The Census counts all people regardless of their national status or lack thereof.

[Mr.Marc]

Did Atlanta add more counties to make it's population soar to 5 mill? That number is hard to believe and if it did rise that's pretty quick.

[teshadoh]

Ok - Atlanta MSA for 2004 estimate is 4,708,297 & for CSA the 2004 estimate is 5,034,362. Basically - yes, more counties were added.

[Martinman]

Did Atlanta add more counties to make it's population soar to 5 mill? That number is hard to believe and if it did rise that's pretty quick.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The 2000 census for the metro was about 4.5 milion and growing at a rate of about 100K per year means the metro would "soar" to 5 million in 5 years.

[JunktionFET]

The 2000 census for the metro was about 4.5 milion and growing at a rate of about 100K per year means the metro would "soar" to 5 million in 5 years.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought the 2000 census count had Atlanta at just over 4 million (4.2?) using the old MSA definitions. The CMSA was undoubtedly higher, but I thought that number was up near 4.8 million in 2000?

The 4.5 million number you mention is from the MSA redefinition perhaps. TheBrad would know, he's the resident census figure nerd/expert/master/whatever

[teshadoh]

I thought the 2000 census count had Atlanta at just over 4 million (4.2?) using the old MSA definitions. The CMSA was undoubtedly higher, but I thought that number was up near 4.8 million in 2000?

The 4.5 million number you mention is from the MSA redefinition perhaps. TheBrad would know, he's the resident census figure nerd/expert/master/whatever

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know, Spartan has called me out on a few occassions, I mainly get sloppy during my responses & neglect to think first.

But prior to the 2002 or 3 MSA definition change, the Atlanta MSA was about 4 million in 2000. But what are you supposed to do when you have a knocking party? There are all these counties that just got to get on the action (but I would prefer to kick them out - party crashers)...

[cosmoboy]

Still with the awesome MSA, Atlanta's population as a city itself is pretty darn sorry. Like the city only has around 430,000 people! Even Charlotte in North Carolina is moving its way up to 700,000! That's one thing Atlanta has to work on BIG TIME!

[teshadoh]

Still with the awesome MSA, Atlanta's population as a city itself is pretty darn sorry. Like the city only has around 430,000 people! Even Charlotte in North Carolina is moving its way up to 700,000! That's one thing Atlanta has to work on BIG TIME!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nothing significant will ever change regarding that - the city's municipal boundary has been the same since the 1950's & I don't ever expect it change any further. The population is increasing since the mid 1990's, first time since the 1960's - but due to gentrification & lower income population loss it doesn't have much to show for it. I'm hoping the city's population will be near 450,000 by 2010 & will likely peak between 500k & 600k.

But this isn't NC - with it's liberal annexation policies & additionally with undeveloped land on each city's peripherary. Essentially, Atlanta is an island - similar to most other large cities - within a larger metro & that will never change. I don't see it as a negative thing though, municipal boundary populations are an abstract number - they have little basis for comparison.

[Mr.Marc]

I hope Atlanta's city population stays about the same also. I don't see that as a bad thing. We don't need over 1 million people living in the city center.

[JunktionFET]

Atlanta is a little larger in land area than Raleigh, and like Raleigh it is somewhat locked by surrounding towns. In order to increase the population a great deal, some serious redevelopment would need to occur within the existing boundaries. I can see it hitting 600-700k maybe someday, but it is unlikely to ever reach beyond that just because of how sunbelt cities are. Same goes for Raleigh too. There are just too many single family homes (with their respective lots) dispersed around the city and consuming space inefficiently.

[Lady Celeste]

Still with the awesome MSA, Atlanta's population as a city itself is pretty darn sorry. Like the city only has around 430,000 people! Even Charlotte in North Carolina is moving its way up to 700,000! That's one thing Atlanta has to work on BIG TIME!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I certainly hope that Atlanta DOES NOT make it's main goal to have a high downtown population. Let me repeat, I hope ATLANTA DOES NOT make a high downtown population its goal. It's not about how many people you have living downtown, it's the quality of life those who live downtown are having. I would much rather have them add more parks and surround them with midrise residential with street level shopping, than to boost about how many people live downtwon. It's not about quantity, it's about quality. Atlanta does NOT need to work on increasing it's population....it needs to work on ensure a high living standard.

As to Teshadoh comment, he is correct in saying that Atlanta is very "landlocked." It's now surrounded by Sandy Springs to the north, Cobb County to the west, College Park, East Point and Hapeville to the south and Decatur to east. There will not be any annexations going in Atlanta....if the ever happen. There are many cities with high inner core populations with low quality of life. I would rather have a nice managable city where the citizens are valued and listened to rather than having the citizens live in the "rat race."

Atlanta should position itself as the counter to traffic issues, over crowded schools, out of control development and lowered quality of life. Public transportation is in place. The infrastructure is being redone. Parks are being developed. Intown retail is growing by leaps and bounds, once dead streets are being redone to become gracious and walkable boulevards. There is life and activity that was not there 10 years ago. This will win people hearts, not just having a large population. Hopefully Atlanta will have politicians and civic leaders who share this vision. It's about quality not quantity.

[teshadoh]

Wise comments Celeste - with as much development occuring in the city, it is even hypothetical that the population may continue to be stagnant or even lower. And that isn't a bad thing.

Gentrification & high density development in the core doesn't always mean a flood of people are moving into the city. Because of gentrification, poor families are moving out of the city - so (including my own home) a family of up to 10 is being displaced by only 2 people - who might not even have children. Additionally, all those condo towers in Downtown & Midtown will mean a population gain, but not as significant as a new subdivision in the suburbs (like Carroll Co's proposed 18k unit subdivsion). Typically single people are moving into these units, at best couples - very rarely will any of them have children while living in the condo. When that occurs they will move to the suburbs, or possibly Virginia Highlands.

So - increased development <> higher population BUT does = higher tax revenue. So, similar sized population with larger tax revenue is a hell of a lot better than a city like Detroit with large & mostly poor populations.

[cosmoboy]

I have a question. When a city annexes do all parts of the city have to be connected? Like there's ALOT of land in southwest Fulton county that could be annexed, but isn't. I'm sure atlanta could add another 50k to 75k residents by just annexing probably another 50 sq. miles in that southwestern portion.

[Lady Celeste]

I have a question. When a city annexes do all parts of the city have to be connected? Like there's ALOT of land in southwest Fulton county that could be annexed, but isn't. I'm sure atlanta could add another 50k to 75k residents by just annexing probably another 50 sq. miles in that southwestern portion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is possible but for what purpose? To add population or for tax purposes. Right now, mayor Shirley Franklin has done a great job in getting the credit rating of the city back to A status. People are moving back into the city. Retail is rediscovering the city. Parks are being planned. Innercore transportation could be greatly improved. These are things that will make a healthy city. Not mere population numbers. Also logistically it would make for a very wierd looking city limits. To get services down to the southern part of the new "city" could prove problematic. Also, I am not sure but doesn't an area's citizens have to agree or approve the annexation. I don't think that Georgia annexation laws are as liberal as other states. If that was the case Sandy Springs would have been annexed years ago.

I am not a citizen of the city itself but if annexation did become a them for the city I would really question the motives. If I was a taxpayer in the city, I would definitely question if the revenue earned by said annexation would offset expeditures. If not then I would rather for my tax dollars be used to better the living standard in the city limits as they appear today. Again, I don't think the current mayor and civic leaders aren't interested in having a high population so we can be in the top 20 on Emporis.com. It's just not that important....not to someone paying thousands of dollars and in some case tens of thousands of dollars a year in tax money.

When people are buying intown, I never hear that their choice was because of the high population. It's always because of the amenities.

Right now, Atlanta's main concern should be increasing quality of life within current boundaries and forming positive and cooperative relationships with cities and counties which surround it. The mental boundary of Atlanta extends well beyond it's actual boundaries. This is why a metro population of 5,000,000 is so telling. You can have all these people here but unless you are ensuring a high quality of life then you will become stagnant or die. I, for one, would not like to see that happen here.

[cosmoboy]

ok now I see you point! I guess I was looking on things totally the wrong way, huh? Guess you have to take it from a realtors perspective rather than a future business grad?

[Lady Celeste]

ok now I see you point! I guess I was looking on things totally the wrong way, huh? Guess you have to take it from a realtors perspective rather than a future business grad?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

LOL.........a realtors prespective you say.

You are young.....very young I fear.

I graduated from the Terry College of Business/University of Georgia with a dual BBA in Risk Management and Real Estate....a dual minor in Finance and German. I had worked over 10 years combined with General Electric Corporation in Risk Management and Bellsouth in Risk Management and later Public Relations.

I also have lived in the metro Atlanta area for 32 years. It's not only about what we know because if that was the case....I have been there done that....it's about what works best for the city and metro as a whole. I see for you size matters.....perhaps in your youth that is meaningful to you. Let me be the first to tell you, it's not the size that counts but what you do with it.

[teshadoh]

ok now I see you point! I guess I was looking on things totally the wrong way, huh? Guess you have to take it from a realtors perspective rather than a future business grad?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think you'll learn that it is more from a business perspective than anything else. If the city annexed adjacent developed areas - primarily to boost the population - it would go bust. Especially since much of that would be southern & central Dekalb - many of the residents require public services.

[teshadoh]

Just a small project - I was considering the amount of vacant housing units in the city. So I reviewed the 2000 census data by block & found out of 186201 units, 18623 were vacant. Meaning, based on the average house size for Atlanta (2.499), rather than a population of 415,001 it could have been 461,539. So - when we refer to our city's population, consider we have roughly 50,000 fewer people due to vacant housing units. Which would bring it close to the max population the city had in the 1960's, when it neared 500k, then considering the number of housing units destroyed since urban renewal (including 'modern' renewal).

[Lady Celeste]

Just a small project - I was considering the amount of vacant housing units in the city.  So I reviewed the 2000 census data by block & found out of 186201 units, 18623 were vacant.  Meaning, based on the average house size for Atlanta (2.499), rather than a population of 415,001 it could have been 461,539.  So - when we refer to our city's population, consider we have roughly 50,000 fewer people due to vacant housing units.  Which would bring it close to the max population the city had in the 1960's, when it neared 500k, then considering the number of housing units destroyed since urban renewal (including 'modern' renewal).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fascinating.

That's alot of vacant homes. 10% seems high to me. I agree with your stats though Teshadoh. I wonder how many of these units are uninhabitable or are being held pending a valuation increase. It's also interesting to note that some of the population growth taking place is via singles or childless couples. Especially in the high density quadrants of the city. I would love to see more families moving into the city as well as upwardly mobile singles and childless couples.....although I applaude them for their pioneering spirits.