I-49 One Step Closer to Being Realized

[Aporkalypse]

I don't want to turn this into an 'us' against 'them' type of thing but I've wondered how much of the tax money generated in NWA makes it's way back up here. But I think some of this stems from the fact that we live in a rather poor state.

I-540 was incredibly expensive and the rest of the state subsidized it and there was a lot of argument against that as well. For a while they were entertaining making the North Belt Freeway near LR a toll road (though it has full federal funding) in order to pay for I-49 through Western AR but this was nixed by stiff opposition. Also, nobody supports making that segment of I-49 a toll road even though that is probably the only way the money will be generated without oppressive taxation. Considering the UA is in Fayetteville I think NWA is easily receiving its fair share of tax revenue.

Mith made a good point about the bridge in Ft Smith. That was supposed to be a $60 million bridge about 5 years ago. With the price of steel going through the roof because of China it will probably be $100 millon now.

It does seem Arkansas taxes are high but remember we do have very low property taxes in Arkansas. My property taxes when I moved to Texas increased almost 5-fold though my home is the same value. As a matter of fact, I paid more in property tax here than I paid in Arkansas income tax two years ago.

[vbfl85]

I don't want to turn this into an 'us' against 'them' type of thing but I've wondered how much of the tax money generated in NWA makes it's way back up here. But I think some of this stems from the fact that we live in a rather poor state.

NWA has the best economy in the state, so i would say it carries the state per capita in many ways. Central Arkansas gives alot as well. Arkansas is still relatively rural and that is what makes NWA and Central Ark superior. Thats why a toll road will work up their, because people (including people from Missouri) will pay the $1.50 to get around Bella Vista. Since the toll is so close to the Ark/Missouri border you have to wonder how much of the road will be built with money from out of state. Thats what makes this location so great for a toll road, a moderate portion could be funded with out of state money.

[Mith242]

I-540 was incredibly expensive and the rest of the state subsidized it and there was a lot of argument against that as well. For a while they were entertaining making the North Belt Freeway near LR a toll road (though it has full federal funding) in order to pay for I-49 through Western AR but this was nixed by stiff opposition. Also, nobody supports making that segment of I-49 a toll road even though that is probably the only way the money will be generated without oppressive taxation. Considering the UA is in Fayetteville I think NWA is easily receiving its fair share of tax revenue.

Mith made a good point about the bridge in Ft Smith. That was supposed to be a $60 million bridge about 5 years ago. With the price of steel going through the roof because of China it will probably be $100 millon now.

Yeah the argument can be made the other way too, especially in the past. I'm sure NWA benefitted during the delta's prosperous times.

As far as the bridge is concerned. It just seems to me that it would be easier to get the ball rolling if they simply made all of the pre-existing I-540 into I-49. Then worry about a new bypass and bridge for Ft Smith afterwards.

[Aporkalypse]

As far as the bridge is concerned. It just seems to me that it would be easier to get the ball rolling if they simply made all of the pre-existing I-540 into I-49. Then worry about a new bypass and bridge for Ft Smith afterwards.

I agree, you wonder why that isn't being proposed.

[itk]

^

I don't know whether or not that has been proposed, but to do that they would have to tie that in to the "existing proposed" location. In other words, they (AHTD) would have to build a freeway from I-540 in Fort Smith to the future I-49. Fort Smith is pretty well built up around I-540, so this would not be cheap.

This discussion has made me think of something-- because of the expense of a new location and new bridge for future I-49 near Fort Smith, it might be (well, actually to my understanding, I think is) a low priority for AHTD. It has little (if any) federal ear-marked funds. Plus, it is in the same district that NWA is in... there are so many needs in NWA, that I doubt the Commission would program another expensive project in this district that isn't directly in NWA. (i.e., projects like the 412 bypass has higher priority)

Of course, I'm not privy to all the inner workings of the Highway Commission, so who knows. Politics get involved, obviously.

[itk]

Mith made a good point about the bridge in Ft Smith. That was supposed to be a $60 million bridge about 5 years ago. With the price of steel going through the roof because of China it will probably be $100 millon now.

If not more! You're right, steel prices have skyrocketed as of recently. Compared to fives years ago... almost double might not be too far off.

[Mith242]

^

I don't know whether or not that has been proposed, but to do that they would have to tie that in to the "existing proposed" location. In other words, they (AHTD) would have to build a freeway from I-540 in Fort Smith to the future I-49. Fort Smith is pretty well built up around I-540, so this would not be cheap.

This discussion has made me think of something-- because of the expense of a new location and new bridge for future I-49 near Fort Smith, it might be (well, actually to my understanding, I think is) a low priority for AHTD. It has little (if any) federal ear-marked funds. Plus, it is in the same district that NWA is in... there are so many needs in NWA, that I doubt the Commission would program another expensive project in this district that isn't directly in NWA. (i.e., projects like the 412 bypass has higher priority)

Of course, I'm not privy to all the inner workings of the Highway Commission, so who knows. Politics get involved, obviously.

I didn't know that. Thanks for pointing that out to us. Unfortunately I get the impression I-49 is going to be pretty far off in the future. I suppose there's always a chance of getting someone in the government to help get things going with some funding, but somehow I don't think anyone should hold their breath.

[Aporkalypse]

I didn't know that. Thanks for pointing that out to us. Unfortunately I get the impression I-49 is going to be pretty far off in the future. I suppose there's always a chance of getting someone in the government to help get things going with some funding, but somehow I don't think anyone should hold their breath.

When you really think about what I-49 would connect it really doesn't seem that high priority for Arkansas. It would more directly connect NWA/Ft Smith to DFW and points South, I guess, but these locations can by routes in OK (I-40 West to US 75 which takes you directly to DFW without ever losing 4 lane controlled access) without adding much if any time. The communities in Western Arkansas that would be linked would be fairly small and unimportant, the most significant would be Mena and there's a big dropoff after that. Sure a few truck-stops would pop up along these roads but that doesn't justify the high price.

I also think Missouri won't have much interest in upgrading US 71 to interstate quality. They have built it as a 4-lane road essentially its entire length except for a short stretch in McDonald Co but the interchanges, overpasses, and underpasses will be a big problem as right now a lot of farm roads cross the highway without exits along its entire length.

[tim2462]

When you really think about what I-49 would connect it really doesn't seem that high priority for Arkansas. It would more directly connect NWA/Ft Smith to DFW and points South, I guess, but these locations can by routes in OK (I-40 West to US 75 which takes you directly to DFW without ever losing 4 lane controlled access) without adding much if any time. The communities in Western Arkansas that would be linked would be fairly small and unimportant, the most significant would be Mena and there's a big dropoff after that. Sure a few truck-stops would pop up along these roads but that doesn't justify the high price.

I also think Missouri won't have much interest in upgrading US 71 to interstate quality. They have built it as a 4-lane road essentially its entire length except for a short stretch in McDonald Co but the interchanges, overpasses, and underpasses will be a big problem as right now a lot of farm roads cross the highway without exits along its entire length.

US 75 in Oklahoma is an awful route for many reasons.

First of all, you do lose four lane controlled access many times in small towns. The speed limit

goes from 70 to 40 in a very short distance, which creates MANY speed traps on that highway.

I fell into one of them in the good little town of Kiowa. The quality of the road is not very good

on top of that. It's just a bad idea to travel that route. There needs to be an alternative.

[vbfl85]

I also think Missouri won't have much interest in upgrading US 71 to interstate quality. They have built it as a 4-lane road essentially its entire length except for a short stretch in McDonald Co but the interchanges, overpasses, and underpasses will be a big problem as right now a lot of farm roads cross the highway without exits along its entire length.

Even though most of US 71 in Missouri isnt at interstate grade, Missouri is much closer to completion than Arkansas. The only exception in Missouri is a certain neighborhoods in southern Kansas City that wont allow the road to be upgraded, even though the grading and other landwork is already in place. An estimate listed a couple of years ago said Missouri could fix the grading issues between KC and the state line for $200 million, though im sure its more now.

Unless Louisiana cuts their funding due to Katrina, I believe Arkansas will be the last state to finish the i49 project.

[masons_dad1]

Even though most of US 71 in Missouri isnt at interstate grade, Missouri is much closer to completion than Arkansas. The only exception in Missouri is a certain neighborhoods in southern Kansas City that wont allow the road to be upgraded, even though the grading and other landwork is already in place. An estimate listed a couple of years ago said Missouri could fix the grading issues between KC and the state line for $200 million, though im sure its more now.

Unless Louisiana cuts their funding due to Katrina, I believe Arkansas will be the last state to finish the i49 project.

I agree with you. Personally I don't care if Arkansas completes I-49 south of Fort Smith, but I do hope they'll finish I-49 north through Bella Vista. NWA already has non-stop interstate access to Dallas and Memphis. From those two cities the rest of the south can be reached. What's more important to NWA is a northern interstate to connect to Kansas City and St. Louis.

[Aporkalypse]

I agree with you. Personally I don't care if Arkansas completes I-49 south of Fort Smith, but I do hope they'll finish I-49 north through Bella Vista. NWA already has non-stop interstate access to Dallas and Memphis. From those two cities the rest of the south can be reached. What's more important to NWA is a northern interstate to connect to Kansas City and St. Louis.

Have you ever drive to Kansas City and St Louis from NWA? McDonald Co and Bella Vista aside it's 4-lane divided the whole way to either place. It's a pretty stone cold easy drive. Missouri's finishing out McDonald Co if they haven't already so it will be good highway each way. Upgrading to true interstate highway quality won't make much difference in the trip, really.

I agree the connection to Shreveport and Texarkana is really pretty meaningless.

[tim2462]

Have you ever drive to Kansas City and St Louis from NWA? McDonald Co and Bella Vista aside it's 4-lane divided the whole way to either place. It's a pretty stone cold easy drive. Missouri's finishing out McDonald Co if they haven't already so it will be good highway each way. Upgrading to true interstate highway quality won't make much difference in the trip, really.

I agree the connection to Shreveport and Texarkana is really pretty meaningless.

The connection to Texarkana is not meaningless.

A lot of the year, especially in the spring and summer months, there are more texas visitors

in Arkansas than we have residents, or so it seems. Driving around, there are nothing but

Texas plates in front of you. It's easy to think you are in Texas. While most of the visitors

are in the Hot Springs / Little Rock area, many travel to the Ozarks. An interstate from Texarkana

to Fort Smith would provide a gateway to the Ouachitas and Northwest Arkansas.

It would also provide people in Louisiana an easy route into western/northwestern Arkansas.

We have to realize that the interstate wouldn't be just for our benefit, but for our neighbors as well.

Not to mention, a much safer trip than driving 71. It's very mountainous and there are too many trucks. There should've been an interstate through there long ago.

[itk]

The only way to get the western Arkansas portion of I-49 completed within the foreseeable future is to get massive amounts of federal funding (i.e., ear-marks). Just like Congress did for portions of I-69.

Therefore, politics will be the driving factor to get that portion done if it's to be done at all in the foreseeable future. Because there are just so many major needs in NWA, I don't see AHTD using their other pools of funds to complete small chunks of future I-49 in that area (i.e., from Alma southward), when instead they could use that to complete chunks of say the 412 bypass, widening of I-540, etc.

However, I think it's much more likely AHTD will complete chunks of I-49 in SW Arkansas from Texarkana northward. Which, actually, they are in the process of right now, starting with future I-49 around Texarkana (which right now is in the NEPA phase, but to my understanding it has relatively high priority).

[Aporkalypse]

The connection to Texarkana is not meaningless.

A lot of the year, especially in the spring and summer months, there are more texas visitors

in Arkansas than we have residents, or so it seems. Driving around, there are nothing but

Texas plates in front of you. It's easy to think you are in Texas. While most of the visitors

are in the Hot Springs / Little Rock area, many travel to the Ozarks. An interstate from Texarkana

to Fort Smith would provide a gateway to the Ouachitas and Northwest Arkansas.

It would also provide people in Louisiana an easy route into western/northwestern Arkansas.

We have to realize that the interstate wouldn't be just for our benefit, but for our neighbors as well.

Not to mention, a much safer trip than driving 71. It's very mountainous and there are too many trucks. There should've been an interstate through there long ago.

Those Texas visitors can get to Little Rock or Hot Springs via I-30 or to NWA via US 75 (which is the main highway through North Dallas and is 4-lane divided its entire length until it hits I-40 near Sallisaw, OK west of Ft Smith) and I-40 to Ft Smith nearly directly from DFW. Last time I went to Rogers to see my family I drove that way and it was bout as direct a route as you could take. You could try to argue that Houston visitors would have a more direct route but they're better off going through Dallas and taking US 75 as the US Hwy (59) between Houston and Texarkana is slow going.

[masons_dad1]

^^

US 75 is not the best route to take coming from Dallas. It takes the same time taking I-35 north to Oklahoma City and then taking I-40 to Fort Smith. You also take a much greater risk of speed traps on US 75 and the brush fires last year closed much of US 75 just south of I-40. I prefer interstate travel over state highways, especially when it takes the same amount of time.

[tim2462]

^^

US 75 is not the best route to take coming from Dallas. It takes the same time taking I-35 north to Oklahoma City and then taking I-40 to Fort Smith. You also take a much greater risk of speed traps on US 75 and the brush fires last year closed much of US 75 just south of I-40. I prefer interstate travel over state highways, especially when it takes the same amount of time.

Yeah, and the highway is not 4 lane divided all the way, it goes down to a 4 lane city street a few times through those speed traps. I'd much rather go through OKC.

[bigboyz05]

The only way to get the western Arkansas portion of I-49 completed within the foreseeable future is to get massive amounts of federal funding (i.e., ear-marks). Just like Congress did for portions of I-69.

Therefore, politics will be the driving factor to get that portion done if it's to be done at all in the foreseeable future. Because there are just so many major needs in NWA, I don't see AHTD using their other pools of funds to complete small chunks of future I-49 in that area (i.e., from Alma southward), when instead they could use that to complete chunks of say the 412 bypass, widening of I-540, etc.

However, I think it's much more likely AHTD will complete chunks of I-49 in SW Arkansas from Texarkana northward. Which, actually, they are in the process of right now, starting with future I-49 around Texarkana (which right now is in the NEPA phase, but to my understanding it has relatively high priority).

As a matter of fact I heard that a section of the North I-49 loop around Texarkana may start construction either late this year or early 2007.

[Aporkalypse]

^^

US 75 is not the best route to take coming from Dallas. It takes the same time taking I-35 north to Oklahoma City and then taking I-40 to Fort Smith. You also take a much greater risk of speed traps on US 75 and the brush fires last year closed much of US 75 just south of I-40. I prefer interstate travel over state highways, especially when it takes the same amount of time.

It's CONSIDERABLY longer to go through OKC. It adds at least an hour to the trip. You're right about the speedtraps, though. It isn't four-lane divided only for brief stretches in Southern OK. Still, I think you can go from Dallas to Fayetteville and only hit two stoplights, which is fine by me. You'll hit fewer speedtraps in those OK small towns than on I-30 between Dallas and Texarkana I assure you. Texas State Troopers don't play.

Mapquest has US 75/69 as the fastest route at 4.5 hours to Ft Smith, which is about 15 minutes faster than it says it takes you to get to Little Rock following I-30 directly the entire way. Also, to go from Dallas to OKC and then to Ft Smith takes more than 6 hours per Mapquest.

[tim2462]

It's CONSIDERABLY longer to go through OKC. It adds at least an hour to the trip. You're right about the speedtraps, though. It isn't four-lane divided only for brief stretches in Southern OK. Still, I think you can go from Dallas to Fayetteville and only hit two stoplights, which is fine by me. You'll hit fewer speedtraps in those OK small towns than on I-30 between Dallas and Texarkana I assure you. Texas State Troopers don't play.

Mapquest has US 75/69 as the fastest route at 4.5 hours to Ft Smith, which is about 15 minutes faster than it says it takes you to get to Little Rock following I-30 directly the entire way. Also, to go from Dallas to OKC and then to Ft Smith takes more than 6 hours per Mapquest.

Mapquest is always off on driving times.

I have mapping software in which you can enter the speed you'll be traveing to get real drive times.

Dallas to OKC to Fort Smith 4 hrs 57 minutes.

Dallas to Fort Smith via 75 4 hrs 10 minutes.

So, it's less than an hour's difference by str8 driving time.

It would be even less of a difference once you add in for the slow-downs on 75, where you go through

towns and have to slow down to 40.

It's worth the extra few minutes to dodge the slow-downs and speed traps.

As far as I-30...yes, the troopers are there, but there are no speed traps.

You have the same speed limit the whole way. On 75, you have speed changes

from 70 to 40 in less than 200 yards. That's what creates speed traps.

[masons_dad1]

Mapquest is always off on driving times.

I have mapping software in which you can enter the speed you'll be traveing to get real drive times.

Dallas to OKC to Fort Smith 4 hrs 57 minutes.

Dallas to Fort Smith via 75 4 hrs 10 minutes.

So, it's less than an hour's difference by str8 driving time.

It would be even less of a difference once you add in for the slow-downs on 75, where you go through

towns and have to slow down to 40.

It's worth the extra few minutes to dodge the slow-downs and speed traps.

As far as I-30...yes, the troopers are there, but there are no speed traps.

You have the same speed limit the whole way. On 75, you have speed changes

from 70 to 40 in less than 200 yards. That's what creates speed traps.

I didn't factor in that during rush hour in OKC you can add an hour to the driving time on I-35. I've driven both routes and I still prefer driving 75-80mph on the interstate than taking chances with 35-70mph speed traps and possible brush fires closing the highway altogether.

[Aporkalypse]

The distances for the US 75/69 route are 277 miles vs 391 miles for the I-35/I-40 route. There are only a couple of places that you can't drive faster than you normally can on the interstate the route I go - in Durant and Atoka. The total number of miles that are not interstate-grade is about 20 miles. I consistently drive 85 the rest of the way.

There are speedtraps in Texas on I-30, BTW. You have to be very careful in Mt Pleasant, New Boston, Sulphur Springs, and Greenville. I got busted going to LR 2-3 mos ago and since then I bought a radar detector which has save my butt a couple of time. Prior to that I was stuck driving the speed limit, which at night in Texas is only 65 on the I-state.

I've never seen a brush fire going either way but there could just as easily be a fire on either road.

[itk]

As a matter of fact I heard that a section of the North I-49 loop around Texarkana may start construction either late this year or early 2007.

You're probably right on that. I think they've already finished the design work on it (or close to), at least for the job near existing SH 245 and the new interchange with I-30, and the environmental study has already been done on it years back, I think it just needs updating.

[ythpstr2000]

Anyone know of a time frame on the Bella Vista Bypass. Forgive me if its already been mentioned/posted. We are purchasing land in Gravette, and the drive is a bit more than we wanted, but if the bypass comes in it wond=t be so bad. Also our property value will go up. So I am just wondering about the time frame. Thanks in advance for the answer...

[Mith242]

Itk will probably be the best person to ask.