New Saks Fifth Avenue in former Montaldo's?

[StevenRocks]

As much as I was rooting for a Saks at SouthPark, a location Uptown in an an old school-luxury department store like Montaldo's would be just as nice, maybe even nicer.

[fulcrumsf]

Hopefully this is our answer to fill the void of Uptown retail. Just one more piece of the puzzle.

[monsoon]

What is in that location now?

[csedwards72]

What is in that location now?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Right now it's a branch of the Mint Museum. There is also a cafe in the bottom. The Mint is apparently going to relocate to the new Wachovia tower on South Tryon.

[jb4563]

This article is a really good sign. I think we will see major retail in Uptown in the next few years.

[charlotte_bon_vivant]

Looks like a possibility, or maybe just a rumor:

http://charlotte.bizjournals.com/charlotte.../11/story2.html

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wish it were true, but based on everything I know about Saks Inc. right now it's just an unfortunate rumor. I won't go into detail, but I will say I am actually worried about the future of Saks right now. A recent article in WWD made me even more afarid for the company. In any case, Barneys could be a strong contender if the developers are aware of their desire to expand.

[dubone]

is it possible that saks is considering smaller stores like this as part of their turnaround? it seems like in this tier of retail, the market isn't very large, so perhaps putting smaller stores in smaller cities is a way to expand without saturating or overreaching.

[charlotte_bon_vivant]

is it possible that saks is considering smaller stores like this as part of their turnaround?  it seems like in this tier of retail, the market isn't very large, so perhaps putting smaller stores in smaller cities is a way to expand without saturating or overreaching.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Saks just spent the last two years closing the majority of their stores in smaller cities. They're in serious financial trouble right now. Their turnaround plan is to funnel money from recent asset sales into existing profitable stores.

[dubone]

oh.

that is not good news.

[NorthStar]

Saks just spent the last two years closing the majority of their stores in smaller cities. They're in serious financial trouble right now. Their turnaround plan is to funnel money from recent asset sales into existing profitable stores.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Saks recently closed its downtown Minneapolis store along with seven others throughout the country. In return, the store expanded it's Off 5th location, which is also located downtown. I wouldn't be surprised if the store is bought within the next couple years.

[csedwards72]

I think that Saks just overexpanded into smaller markets that couldn't really support stores, as well as into malls that didn't work. (I still can't figure out why Saks's first NC store is in Triangle Town Center- a good mall but not a super-fancy one.)

Neiman Marcus, on the other hand, has been far more selective in the markets it entered and has expanded much more slowly than Saks had; its only recent store closure has been at Town & Country Mall, a dead mall in Houston, TX. If Neiman Marcus is coming to Charlotte, then I'd say that there is a good chance Charlotte could support a store such as Saks as well (assuming Neiman Marcus works OK, which, given the chain's history, it should).

I'd just be concerned about locating uptown, unless Saks is counting on only uptown workers to support a store. I'm amazed by how many people in Charlotte won't come uptown due to parking, crime fears, etc.; this isn't a big city or the 'hood!

[monsoon]

..... I'm amazed by how many people in Charlotte won't come uptown due to parking, crime fears, etc.; this isn't a big city or the 'hood!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well think about it. Downtown is difficult to get in and out of, its an expensive and difficult place to park, and as someone mentioned in another thread, you do have to deal with a lot of rift raft.

So if you are deciding to buy some new over the top expensive underware at Saks. Wouldn't you rather go to SP and shop there, rather than to deal with all of the problems that I mentioned above?

I don't know myself, I buy my underware in the plastic 3 pack at Walmart or Costco and they don't have that shopping downtown either.

[Miesian Corners]

I don't know myself,  I buy my underware in the plastic 3 pack at Walmart or Costco and they don't have that shopping downtown either.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Obviously you have no one to impress metro. Single guys can't be caught with their pants down wearing Wal-Mart drawers.

[SmellyCat]

Well think about it.  Downtown is difficult to get in and out of, its an expensive and difficult place to park

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is it really that hard and expensive to park downtown? For example, there is free parking at the huge garage above Reid's right near the center of town after 5pm and there is loads of free parking on the weekends. Also, I've heard that parking in the Post Gateway garage is free on weekends.

[f0xym0p]

Is it really that hard and expensive to park downtown?  For example, there is free parking at the huge garage above Reid's right near the center of town after 5pm and there is loads of free parking on the weekends.  Also, I've heard that parking in the Post Gateway garage is free on weekends.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Parking almost everywhere downtown is free nights and weekends, and the traffic isn't very bad during those times either. Saks (or any retailer) could get customers on weekdays from people who are already downtown for work, and then after hours and weekends from other people. The perception that people have about downtown is the problem.

[StevenRocks]

Saks at Triangle Town Center wa a horrible miscalculation. If they had waited a year or so, they could have gone to their rightful Raleigh home at Crabtree Valley Mall in place of Lord & Taylor.

monsoon and csedwards72's points about Uptown are well-taken. Still, Saks operates in center city areas in places like Pittsburgh with simlar demographics and does well. Charlotte could be a winner too.

[dubone]

Is it really that hard and expensive to park downtown?

[monsoon]

Parking almost everywhere downtown is free nights and weekends, and the traffic isn't very bad during those times either. Saks (or any retailer) could get customers on weekdays from people who are already downtown for work, and then after hours and weekends from other people. The perception that people have about downtown is the problem.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I hear what you are saying, and agree, but compared to the free open parking at a mall it is no contest. And unfortunately the perception is that crime is worse outside of business hours counters the free parking during this time.

On top of that the SAKs shopper (or SP in general) does not want to be bothered with time periods, parking permits if you dont live there, parallel parking, parking ramps, etc etc. They want to buy their colored underware without these hassles.

Personally I think the pursuit of mall shopping for downtown Charlotte is not going to do a lot for the city. Something else needs to be done to improve the retail situation there.

[atlrvr]

  those people can just go ahead and stay in the burbs, we don't need 'em ).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep......I agree, though Saks may need them.

[atlrvr]

Places like Portland and Indianapolis have succesful downtown shopping with similar populations. Why are they able to successfully bring in suburbanites? They all come and park, and it's not a big deal.

[Lady Celeste]

On top of that the SAKs shopper (or SP in general)  does not want to be bothered with time periods, parking permits if you dont live there, parallel parking, parking ramps, etc etc.  They want to buy their colored underware without these hassles. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have to agree with you here monsoon.

It's all about convenience. A SAKs, Neiman Marcus, Bloomingdale's or Nordstrom shopper will not want any additional hassles. Period. These shoppers tend to be some of the most demanding in all of retaildom. Unless you have a very high concentration of the necessary demographics in a small area then it will be really hard to perform. That's in any city. In an era where people would prefer to go to Walmart ...and that includes even the decidedly middle class....such highend stores must cater to their strict socioeconomic demographics.

Now if SAKs Inc. brings in a Filene's Basement or a Off Fifth Ave, then perhaps it could work because the overhead is lower than a traditional "mall" department.

Personally I feel like boutique stores would do better in the burgeoning intown urban areas of southern cities. These areas tend to be populated by younger, very educated, childless, more active and very trendy citizens...with money to spend. Stores that cater to this demographics are likely to do much better.

SAKs does have the best purse section though....

[csedwards72]

Portland has better mass transit into downtown. I've never been to Indianapolis; perhaps Circle Center Mall has a parking garage attached to it.

Note to Saks: to make an uptown store work, you'd need to have parking right next to the store. You should also consider having free parking (however you can make it work) and perhaps classy security guards in the parking garage or deck or whatever to make people, especially unaccompanied women, feel safe.

I find Charlotteans' phobias of uptown crime and hassles to be completely ludicrous; it's a very accessible, nice area.

[ElricSeven]

Portland has better mass transit into downtown.  I've never been to Indianapolis;  perhaps Circle Center Mall has a parking garage attached to it.

Note to Saks: to make an uptown store work, you'd need to have parking right next to the store.  You should also consider having free parking (however you can make it work) and perhaps classy security guards in the parking garage or deck or whatever to make people, especially unaccompanied women, feel safe.

I find Charlotteans' phobias of uptown crime and hassles to be completely ludicrous; it's a very accessible, nice area.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Pentagon City in D.C. does well and it has a parking deck. They even charge to park if I recall correctly.

[monsoon]

Places like Portland and Indianapolis have succesful downtown shopping with similar populations.  Why are they able to successfully bring in suburbanites?  They all come and park, and it's not a big deal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can't speak to Indianapolis as I am not familiar with it. But Portland 30 years ago made decisions about city development that would be very unpopular and impossible here even today. If Charlotte had done the same thing then most likely we would have a quite different situation. However we didn't do this and instead spent 30 years building a city based on the automobile that now spreads over 300 sq/miles. And it would be larger if not for the political boundries that stop the city from spreading any further. In 2000 Portland's population density was 4000/sq mile. In Charlotte it was 2200/sq mile.

Unfortunately in building a city that is based on automobile travel, Charlotte has also developed the mentalality in most people's minds that a free parking space should be provided anywhere they go. And in most of the city this is the case. Only in DT does this change and that is where the resistance comes from. It is a big deal to people here.

[monsoon]

Pentagon City in D.C. does well and it has a parking deck.  They even charge to park if I recall correctly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought that was in Arlington, and if I remember correctly is pretty suburban.