Light Rail in Northwest Arkansas

[itk]

It's hard to tell if NWA really has a bright future at this point, but I'm trying to be optimistic. NWA doesn't have a central core like most big cities and having 4 major cities in a linear layout competing for a lot of the cultural, entertainment, civic amenites, and infrastructure makes for a major challenge. Infrastructure is the biggest challenge with roads being the priority. IMO, light rail is an attractive option because with such a linear metro it would be a straight line rail that touches each city and there is already an existing rail line in place. If done right it would reduce the need for such widespread road widening that could actually end up costing more than a light rail system. It'll take some serious political and corporate clout to get it done because like I said before the metro is made up of 4 major cities and not one of them is near reaching 100K population any time soon.

It's just my opinion and I hope it makes any sense, because I'm not the most knowledgable person when it comes to transportation issues. I'm kinda hoping itk will clarify what I just posted.

I'm not sure exactly what you posted ... but to me I think the preliminary discussion about light rail has been hashed out about as much as it can at this point. Without a formal study, everything truly is speculation, such as cost, ridership projections, comparisons with other transit/transportation modes, etc.

But, yes, to get light rail off the ground now it will need someone(s) with a lot of $ to help fund it, and those people haven't showed up (yet). It's all about the $$. I'm sure the proponents will try another push for an ear-mark next year. In the mean time, I'm sure they'll still get the ears of the local media when they make speeches and talks, just to keep the kettle warm.

[masons_dad1]

I'm not sure exactly what you posted ... but to me I think the preliminary discussion about light rail has been hashed out about as much as it can at this point. Without a formal study, everything truly is speculation, such as cost, ridership projections, comparisons with other transit/transportation modes, etc.

But, yes, to get light rail off the ground now it will need someone(s) with a lot of $ to help fund it, and those people haven't showed up (yet). It's all about the $$. I'm sure the proponents will try another push for an ear-mark next year. In the mean time, I'm sure they'll still get the ears of the local media when they make speeches and talks, just to keep the kettle warm.

I wasn't really sure what I posted either.

[CellarDoor135]

The U of A School of Architecture's Community Design Center just released its report on the viability and great potential of a light raile system in the region. Here is a link to the very interesting report: http://uacdc.uark.edu/Transit%20Primer%20Book-small.pdf.

OR go to the u of a's CDC webpage: http://uacdc.uark.edu/

[itk]

The U of A School of Architecture's Community Design Center just released its report on the viability and great potential of a light raile system in the region. Here is a link to the very interesting report: http://uacdc.uark.edu/Transit%20Primer%20Book-small.pdf.

OR go to the u of a's CDC webpage: http://uacdc.uark.edu/

[Mith242]

That's some very interesting info, thanks for posting it. Even if you aren't interesting in the light rail it's worth taking a look at. For someone like me that would certainly like the idea of having it, it's hard not to be interested in it. The one thing making me wary is the fact that I still don't know that people have embraced what public transportation we already have. I think I heard ORT canceled one of the routes because only one person was using it on a regular basis. It would suck to put that much money into something like that and then have hardly anyone use it. I've noticed that I hardly seem to go up to Benton County anymore. In part because I don't want to deal with all the traffic. So for me the idea sounds more appealing. Just get on board and not have to worry about the traffic. But at the same time I see myself accepting it more than the average person. If this was just one my own personal preference, I'd rather have a light rail than a western bypass. But in ways I wonder if we kept from always widening the roads and such that we could try to get people to accept other alternatives. Dover Kohl mentioned quite often that if you have to lay out the cities for the people not for the vehicles or else you'll get a vehicle 'driven' city instead of a person oriented one.

[Mith242]

Here's some interesting info even if you aren't interested in the light rail idea. It shows the NWA metro compared to some others. In case some of you don't feel like looking through that link.

[strmchsr77]

Here's some interesting info even if you aren't interested in the light rail idea. It shows the NWA metro compared to some others. In case some of you don't feel like looking through that link.

[Mith242]

These are very interesting Rod. So they are saying that the linear urbanized area (NWA) is the most efficient? Any reasons why?

[hogwash]

I'm sorry this is a pipe dream. Just look at all the development going in on the fringes of all the cities as opposed to their respective downtowns. There is no committment to the idea, only token gestures of support.

[itk]

That's some very interesting info, thanks for posting it. Even if you aren't interesting in the light rail it's worth taking a look at. For someone like me that would certainly like the idea of having it, it's hard not to be interested in it. The one thing making me wary is the fact that I still don't know that people have embraced what public transportation we already have. I think I heard ORT canceled one of the routes because only one person was using it on a regular basis. It would suck to put that much money into something like that and then have hardly anyone use it. I've noticed that I hardly seem to go up to Benton County anymore. In part because I don't want to deal with all the traffic. So for me the idea sounds more appealing. Just get on board and not have to worry about the traffic. But at the same time I see myself accepting it more than the average person. If this was just one my own personal preference, I'd rather have a light rail than a western bypass. But in ways I wonder if we kept from always widening the roads and such that we could try to get people to accept other alternatives. Dover Kohl mentioned quite often that if you have to lay out the cities for the people not for the vehicles or else you'll get a vehicle 'driven' city instead of a person oriented one.

[CellarDoor135]

I'm sorry this is a pipe dream. Just look at all the development going in on the fringes of all the cities as opposed to their respective downtowns. There is no committment to the idea, only token gestures of support.

[Aporkalypse]

Here's some interesting info even if you aren't interested in the light rail idea. It shows the NWA metro compared to some others. In case some of you don't feel like looking through that link.

[hogwash]

OK, check this out.

UA Light Rail design team

A design proposal for an urban park at the Dickson Street station.

[masons_dad1]

I agree with the premise that NWA's linear arrangement should make it easier to build a single line there, though I think this is offset by the large distances and sparsely populated areas between some of the cities. That said, the other "linear" metros, Little Rock and Charlotte, aren't really that linear. His diagrams don't take into account the density within the metros, just the total urbanized area.

Nobody discusses the biggest issue - which is whether anyone will actually ride it. NWA has a grossly inadequate bus system to connect riders to the rail, that has to be in place first. The poor Hispanics aren't going to walk 5 miles to hop on rail, then walk another 3 when they get to the stop they want. The other is that it would probably lengthen commute time for most NWA commuters right now, probably signficantly as low ridership and long length of track would mean trains wouldn't be along frequently. Traffic isn't stop and go for several hours a day on I-540 the way it is on Atlanta and Dallas freeways. It's probably not worth the effort to ride it for a short trip of an exit or two, so really it would be more of a ferry between Benton and Washington Cos. Would the ridership really be there? I kind of doubt it.

The other issue is who would pay for it? Even if Washington Co taxpayers jumped on board, I very much doubt Benton Co taxpayers would. That's assuming a federal grant could be obtained, which I very much doubt.

[cocothief]

There is simply no incentive for light rail in NWA. There likely will not be for another 50 years.

Commuting is way too easy around here.

Those most enthusiastic about light rail are those who are truly environmentally conscious and "think its a neat idea".

That core group of people is extremely small right now.

Out of that core group expressing support for light rail in the future, I wonder how many of them ride Ozark Regional Transit or the Razorback Transit.

Probably very few, and then generally only as a novelty.

Light rail will be even less flexible and attractive than riding the bus.

Currently I can take my truck and be at the NWA mall in ten minutes. If I rode the bus, I'd still have to get in my truck, find a bus stop, then wait for the bus, then wait for the loop to take me to the NWA mall. The trip would likely take well over an hour.

Mass transit is only feasible when there truly are pressures to incentivize it.

None exist in NWA and will likely not in our lifetimes.

Its way too expensive to even think about.

Are there bus routes to Wal-Mart HQ?

If there are, do they command any substantial ridership?

My answer is that if they exist, or if they were implemented, they would be very lightly used.

Its just too simple to get there and back with a car, and its also the least time consuming.

[Mith242]

Well, we got this old topic some activity. Personally I like the idea of light rail, but I don't know if it would be successful or not. I've been surprised how much support it's actually gotten. But at the same time I wonder if people were told they could ever have the western bypass or light rail if they'd still be as supportive. Another thing I believe we have to keep in mind is what's going to be in store 25-50 years down the road. How are gas prices going to be? Will there be realistic fuel alternatives? Because I have my doubts gas will be very affordable that far into the future. Mass transit could end up becoming more acceptable just for the fact that not everyone may be able to travel the way they do today.

[itk]

There is simply no incentive for light rail in NWA. There likely will not be for another 50 years.

Commuting is way too easy around here.

Those most enthusiastic about light rail are those who are truly environmentally conscious and "think its a neat idea".

That core group of people is extremely small right now.

Out of that core group expressing support for light rail in the future, I wonder how many of them ride Ozark Regional Transit or the Razorback Transit.

Probably very few, and then generally only as a novelty.

Light rail will be even less flexible and attractive than riding the bus.

Currently I can take my truck and be at the NWA mall in ten minutes. If I rode the bus, I'd still have to get in my truck, find a bus stop, then wait for the bus, then wait for the loop to take me to the NWA mall. The trip would likely take well over an hour.

Mass transit is only feasible when there truly are pressures to incentivize it.

None exist in NWA and will likely not in our lifetimes.

Its way too expensive to even think about.

Are there bus routes to Wal-Mart HQ?

If there are, do they command any substantial ridership?

My answer is that if they exist, or if they were implemented, they would be very lightly used.

Its just too simple to get there and back with a car, and its also the least time consuming.

[itk]

OK, check this out.

UA Light Rail design team

A design proposal for an urban park at the Dickson Street station.

[Mith242]

That's a pretty cool fantasy rail station CellarDoor posted. Wouldn't that be something? Light rail realities aside, can you imagine approaching the Fayetteville City Council with that design at Dickson Street??

You know, when I read/hear what proponents of light rail state as their basis, or reasoning, for pursing rail and transit, I have to think that a majority of them believe in the perceived solution first, then justify with the problem. I'm not saying there isn't a problem with things like traffic congestion-- pollution, wasted time, sitting in a car versus walking, etc.

But what if we tomorrow we discover a more cost-effective, near-zero poluting vehicle (hypothetical), with the same performance and reliability and everything else as the internal combustion engine auto. Would the same proponents still be adament about rail? I bet they would.

I guess my point is that the whole "running out of fossil fuels" is such a worn argument. Autos and our (being the free world, particularly the US) devotion to auto travel for daily use, IMO, is here to stay for a long, long time. Whether or not that's the internal combustion engine, or future hydrogen fuel cells, or whatever. I think people (ie, consumers) really prefer the freedom of the auto over mass transit, and is willing to pay more in taxes to add lanes or pay more for gas or pay more for future technologies in autos, rather than take mass transit. It has to be a major social/natural shift or near catastrophe to change people's habits. Otherwise, a majority of transit users are typically (1) low income and/or (2) those who don't want to put up with massive traffic congestion, found in the big cities (and of course have reliable and easy access to transit stations). They, being the majority of transit users, take transit by necessity and convenience, not by ultimate choice (which I think is the auto).