Light Rail in Northwest Arkansas

[monsoon]

In looking at this map, I would think the area must be talking about commuter rail given the distances involved. How much track is this?

[Mith242]

Light rail in northwest Arkansas...wow. I hope it gets done. Is there enough density outside of Fayettville to support one? Here in minneapolis, our rail opened last year and the thing is fantastic. Of course, I know pretty much nothing about the specifics or economics of the project, but I'm a big fan of public transit and I'm a big fan of NWA - So I think It'd be pretty sweet. I gotta tell you too, having it go to the airport is really nice and lots and lots of people here choose to avoid the traffic and the parking and take the train.

We certainly hope it comes about. To have it go to the airport would be great too but with the projected cost of the project I think that staying to the core cities at first would probably be best, at first at least. Remember this is going to be built right now. They're just wanting to get things started like purchasing the way of rights and such for when it is more needed in the future. Yeah when you were here before it was pretty much all Fayetteville but all the other cities have been growing at a faster rate. Fayetteville has tried to slow down their growth to better control it. And Wal-mart has made a huge impact on the Bentonville/Rogers area. As they bring more people from other parts of the country down to their headquarters people are wanting more entertainment and such and there is a lot of development going on up there.

[Mith242]

In looking at this map, I would think the area must be talking about commuter rail given the distances involved. How much track is this?

I don't have any exact figures but I believe from the south of Fayetteville to the north of Rogers is around 8-10 miles. This area is somewhat odd because no one city really dominates. For a long time Fayetteville did tend to, but between Fayetteville slowing down groth to better control it and so much development happening up north towards Rogers and Bentonville no one city really dominates. It's one of the things that prevents it forming a good urban core. Some have projected that northwest will surpass the Tulsa metro in around 30 years or so. It will be interesting to see how the area develops, if a dominate city appears during that time.

[mcheiss]

In looking at this map, I would think the area must be talking about commuter rail given the distances involved. How much track is this?

The Entire loop is 41 miles, but the distance from Fayetteville to Bentonvile is around 12 or so miles.

Most people would assume it's a commuter rail, but they are actually making it light rail. We do lack a little density here in NWA, but the developers of the rail are hoping that once the rail project begins construction, urban density projects will begin to sprout up near the tracks, and density will come.

[monsoon]

At current costs, a 41 mile LRT will probably run about $1.6B. That is an amazing amount of money.

[mcheiss]

At current costs, a 41 mile LRT will probably run about $1.6B. That is an amazing amount of money.

There's actually about 15 or so miles of the track done already. They want to run some of it on the existing Arkansas Missouri Railroad. There saying it could cost anywhere between $550 Million and $1.2 Billion. I don't know how were going to pay for it, but members of congress seem confidant.

If I had a say in it, I would only make the light rail system from Fayetteville to Bentonville, because then we could just use the existing A/M Railroad and it would cost much to make repairs. I would esitimate costs for this plan around $100 Mill at the most.

[mcheiss]

There's also been discussion on making a commuter rail between Fort Smith and Northwest Arkansas.

Could anybdy see this happening?

[Mith242]

There's also been discussion on making a commuter rail between Fort Smith and Northwest Arkansas.

Could anybdy see this happening?

I wouldn't have thought so at all not long ago but I keep hearing talk of busing people from Ft Smith to work here in Fayetteville. So maybe it's possible. I still question the fact of Fayetteville having to bring in people all the way in from Ft Smith just to fill jobs. Even if these people didn't want to live in Fayetteville because of housing prices you'd still think they would consider moving to a closer town like Greenland or even West Fork. I don't think it;s a good sign when you have to rely on bringing people who live that far away to fill jobs here in northwest Arkansas.

[monsoon]

There's actually about 15 or so miles of the track done already. They want to run some of it on the existing Arkansas Missouri Railroad. There saying it could cost anywhere between $550 Million and $1.2 Billion. I don't know how were going to pay for it, but members of congress seem confidant.

If I had a say in it, I would only make the light rail system from Fayetteville to Bentonville, because then we could just use the existing A/M Railroad and it would cost much to make repairs. I would esitimate costs for this plan around $100 Mill at the most.

Light Rail trains are not allowed to use the same rails as existing freight lines. Only commuter rail can do that and provisonally a newer technology called DMU.

By law Federal funding for local rail projects is limited to 60%. In most cases if it is more than 50% then it won't be considered because there is too much competition for the money and the feds also use viability grant funding priority. If this system is to become a reality, the people of Arkansas will have to be prepared to pay higher taxes to cover the local portion.

[Mith242]

Light Rail trains are not allowed to use the same rails as existing freight lines. Only commuter rail can do that and provisonally a newer technology called DMU.

By law Federal funding for local rail projects is limited to 60%. In most cases if it is more than 50% then it won't be considered because there is too much competition for the money and the feds also use viability grant funding priority. If this system is to become a reality, the people of Arkansas will have to be prepared to pay higher taxes to cover the local portion.

There's where some of the uncertainty comes in. I imagine they'll be doing some studies soon. I'm wondering whether it will be cheaper to have a light rail and having to buy the land and lay all new track or to go another route and have something that runs on existing Arkansas-Missouri rail. Where the money will come from is another question. I think money will have to be rerouted away from road projects for this to happen. I've been rather surprised so much interest and support for the idea already. But I wonder if people will be willing to give up some road projects to have some sort of rail transportation.

[mcheiss]

Light Rail trains are not allowed to use the same rails as existing freight lines. Only commuter rail can do that and provisonally a newer technology called DMU.

By law Federal funding for local rail projects is limited to 60%. In most cases if it is more than 50% then it won't be considered because there is too much competition for the money and the feds also use viability grant funding priority. If this system is to become a reality, the people of Arkansas will have to be prepared to pay higher taxes to cover the local portion.

More than likely to save money, there going to use the existing A/M Railroad tracks. Or, they could build another track next to the existing railroad. I guess it could be classified as part LRT and part Commuter Rail.

More than likely, we will have higher sales tax, which is already (9.0%) in Benton County, and higher gas prices.

[Aporkalypse]

More than likely to save money, there going to use the existing A/M Railroad tracks. Or, they could build another track next to the existing railroad. I guess it could be classified as part LRT and part Commuter Rail.

More than likely, we will have higher sales tax, which is already (9.0%) in Benton County, and higher gas prices.

I don't think sales and gas taxes could generate that kind of revenue without a 2-3% hike or financing it out across the decade.

Yearly maintenance costs would double county budgets, I think it would be a big mess.

Actually, this sort of thing would keep me from moving to NWA is the opportunity arose.

That said, it won't happen. Benton Co's conservative politicians will never back it.

[Arkansawyer]

I must ask those of y'all who support light rail in NWA, why? I feel like we're starting to beat a dead horse, but first, there isn't a need, and second, the financial burden would be almost impossible to handle. NWA seems like the almost exact opposite place of where light rail is needed. It is largely sprawl, and has no regional bus system in place. Much larger cities don't have this type of thing. I just don't understand the fascination with the idea.

[mcheiss]

I must ask those of y'all who support light rail in NWA, why? I feel like we're starting to beat a dead horse, but first, there isn't a need, and second, the financial burden would be almost impossible to handle. NWA seems like the almost exact opposite place of where light rail is needed. It is largely sprawl, and has no regional bus system in place. Much larger cities don't have this type of thing. I just don't understand the fascination with the idea.

I will say that I support the rail, because I know the benefits of rail and how it can even more help our economy.

I know that there are several problems like: How to pay for it, will it be supported? I think that right NOW it is not needed, but it will be needed in the future.

The bus system has already started with about 7 fixed routes alone by Ozark Regional Transit, not even to mention Razorback Transit in Fayetteville.

It takes me alone 40 minutes to drive a few miles to work each day. I would much rather take a Light Rail straight from a station in Rogers to the Wal-Mart HQ.

[Aporkalypse]

I will say that I support the rail, because I know the benefits of rail and how it can even more help our economy.

I know that there are several problems like: How to pay for it, will it be supported? I think that right NOW it is not needed, but it will be needed in the future.

The bus system has already started with about 7 fixed routes alone by Ozark Regional Transit, not even to mention Razorback Transit in Fayetteville.

It takes me alone 40 minutes to drive a few miles to work each day. I would much rather take a Light Rail straight from a station in Rogers to the Wal-Mart HQ.

I think it will hurt the economy, via heavy tax burden.

And we all know the bus network needs extensive expansion, it doesn't even cover Washington and Benton Cos does it?

[mcheiss]

And we all know the bus network needs extensive expansion, it doesn't even cover Washington and Benton Cos does it?

The bus system only covers the cities of Rogers, Springdale, Bentonville, and Fayetteville right now. Cities like Lowell, Siloam Springs, Elkins, Farmington, and Bella Vista have all been in talks with Ozark Regional Transit on adding fixed routes into the system.

Also, commuter routes have been suggested as well that would go from Fayetteville north all the way to Bentonville.

[Mith242]

Okay I didn't have enough time to answer this before I had to go to work this morning. I admit I have been surprised there has been as much support of this as there has been. Fayetteville doesn't surprise me too much. Many people here including myself are all for alternative transportation and getting more people out of their vehicles. Maybe some of the support even comes from some of the people who have moved here out of state and are used to having something like this. The biggest thing to keep in mind is that this is for the future and I don't mean several years down the road. I'd be surprised if nothing was being done a decade from now except perhaps maybe buying some right of way. I think that's the biggest thing. If we do decide to get a light rail is to buy some of the land now before it gets even more expensive in the future. If they decide not to do it then I'm sure the real estate will still be worth the investment and they could either sell it or do something else with it. Some of this might be just seeing how the population growth takes shape in the next couple of decades. Some studies are suggesting northwest Arkansas will surpass other metros like Little Rock and Tulsa in 30 years or so. Personally I can't say whether it will work or whether it will be worth the cost. But I can't say that the California method of simply throwing out more expanded freeways has really helped them a whole lot. I'm glad that people here are at least considering other options.

[Aporkalypse]

Okay I didn't have enough time to answer this before I had to go to work this morning. I admit I have been surprised there has been as much support of this as there has been. Fayetteville doesn't surprise me too much. Many people here including myself are all for alternative transportation and getting more people out of their vehicles. Maybe some of the support even comes from some of the people who have moved here out of state and are used to having something like this. The biggest thing to keep in mind is that this is for the future and I don't mean several years down the road. I'd be surprised if nothing was being done a decade from now except perhaps maybe buying some right of way. I think that's the biggest thing. If we do decide to get a light rail is to buy some of the land now before it gets even more expensive in the future. If they decide not to do it then I'm sure the real estate will still be worth the investment and they could either sell it or do something else with it. Some of this might be just seeing how the population growth takes shape in the next couple of decades. Some studies are suggesting northwest Arkansas will surpass other metros like Little Rock and Tulsa in 30 years or so. Personally I can't say whether it will work or whether it will be worth the cost. But I can't say that the California method of simply throwing out more expanded freeways has really helped them a whole lot. I'm glad that people here are at least considering other options.

I understand your point but I think it's a lot like me saying I might as well buy a $3 million house now as it will only be more expensive in 30 years when I can afford it. I'd be getting in way over my head at this point. NWA is going to have a lot of difficulty catching its infrastructure up to par without this sort of drain on its budget.

This pales in comparison to the Metromover boondoggle in Miami in scope and that is a huge drain on the city's budget with essentially no ridership, and Miami is much better suited to be able to pay for this sort of thing.

[Mith242]

I understand your point but I think it's a lot like me saying I might as well buy a $3 million house now as it will only be more expensive in 30 years when I can afford it. I'd be getting in way over my head at this point. NWA is going to have a lot of difficulty catching its infrastructure up to par without this sort of drain on its budget.

This pales in comparison to the Metromover boondoggle in Miami in scope and that is a huge drain on the city's budget with essentially no ridership, and Miami is much better suited to be able to pay for this sort of thing.

I do have some worries like that. Plenty of people thinking it's a good idea but then very few people using it type of thing. And I am still surprised that there seems to be so much support for something like this when it's obviously going to take money away from other things like roads and infrastructure. I wonder if some people will change their mind when they realize you won't get some of the road projects because you have to invest it into a light rail. That's one of the reasons I'd like to see a study look into something that will use the existing Arkansas Missouri rail.

[mcheiss]

I do have some worries like that. Plenty of people thinking it's a good idea but then very few people using it type of thing. And I am still surprised that there seems to be so much support for something like this when it's obviously going to take money away from other things like roads and infrastructure. I wonder if some people will change their mind when they realize you won't get some of the road projects because you have to invest it into a light rail. That's one of the reasons I'd like to see a study look into something that will use the existing Arkansas Missouri rail.

I think we should look into the A/M rail as a possibility. Of course, it would have to be considered a commuter rail.

[Mith242]

I think we should look into the A/M rail as a possibility. Of course, it would have to be considered a commuter rail.

I believe they'll be doing a study on all of this sometime in the near future. Of course it will take a while before we get any results but I'd like to see what it will have to say on all of this.

[mcheiss]

I believe they'll be doing a study on all of this sometime in the near future. Of course it will take a while before we get any results but I'd like to see what it will have to say on all of this.

It'll be years before anything real happens.

[Mith242]

It'll be years before anything real happens.

It will probably be years before they actually decide to seriously start making decisions concerning it.

[Mith242]

I've been seeing some more mentioning of the light rail in the editorial section of the Northwest Arkansas Times. A while back ago they pretty much slammed the whole idea. This time they still rejected the idea but tried to offer more reasons why. Apparently even a study on on it is going to cost a lot of money. And they also mentioned that it's just going to take away too much money away from other major road projects in the area. I have to admit I do see that aspect of it. As much as I do find the idea appealing are people really ready to give up some major projects for possibly decades just to get a light rail? I wish we had some general ideas on running a commuter type rail on existing A&M railway would cost.

[mcheiss]

I don't see why we can't just do a route between Fayetteville and Bentonville that uses the existing A/M Railroad tracks. It wouldn't cost more than $50 Million and it would be just as operational.

XNA could run shuttles from one of the stations to the airport and all of our problems will be solved.