Last Call in Greenville

[Spartan]

I have heard about this on the radio and again just now on the news....

The Greenville City Council voted on an ordinance last night to change last call to 2am for downtown. The idea being to lower vagracy and rowdiness after that hour. It affects about a dozen bars in Greenville and only a few downtown. Is this good or bad for the city?

Spartanburg, Charleston, and Columbia have ordinances like this in place.

[GSP Tiger]

I think it is a wise move in the right direction. It will decrease some of the unpleasant activities in the nighttime hours, but it will not stop any criminal activity from occuring. Is is better to drive on Main Street in peace at night than to drive in at night when it is hangover alley.

[Spartan]

I don't think it is right for a government to say when a business can and cannot sell its product, whatever it may be.

[GSP Tiger]

I don't think it is right for a government to say when a business can and cannot sell its product, whatever it may be.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can agree with you on that. Not only are alcoholic beverage sales are government regulated, but some counties across the state still has the unpopular blue laws. In Anderson, you cannot buy underwear or jeans in a Wal-Mart after Saturday night. Because of the blue laws, Wal-Mart Supercenter closes everything off except the Food Center until the afternoon and closes it up again around 6pm. The day is quickly coming soon when blue laws are no more in this state.

I think that the bars should be allowed to serve alcoholic beverages slightly longer, but each customer is liable for his/her own actions and conduct. He/she should know the effects alcohol can have in his/her body.

[Spartan]

Tell me about it. It happened on several occasions while I was in Columbia. I'd go to Wal-Mart and they would rope off the non-grocery part at midnight, preventing me from buying what I wanted. It was at this point that I decided that its not worth going there to start with, much less at midnight. Oh well

[GSP Tiger]

Would it also be wise to rope off the HBC area if you needed tylenol for a headache, toothpaste for your teeth, shaving cream, etc. in the middle of the night? I highly doubt it.

Which counties in the upstate do not have blue laws?

[Greenville]

I agree that a privately owned business should be able to sell alcohol (or anything else) whenever it pleases. However, if people are loud and rowdy (and vomiting and peeing in public!) in the middle of the night, I can see why laws such as these exist. If there were stricter fines/punishments for public drunkenness, we probably wouldn't need laws like this. I can certainly understand how people who live downtown are irritated by people being loud in the middle of the night following hours of heavy drinking.

It seems like a lot of cities have the 2:00 AM rule. I know this is the case in Washington, DC, so it's not like we are being anti-big city to do this.

[btoy]

Ya, When I went to Clemson on Sundays my roomates and I would go to Church at Newspring at Anderson College. On the way home sometimes we would stop at Super Wal-Mart to shop. They had people in the store to remind you that you could only purchase groceries. I seem to remember an incident where one of my roomates bought a mens health magazine and they would not ring it up becuase it was sunday.

[Spartan]

Would it also be wise to rope off the HBC area if you needed tylenol for a headache, toothpaste for your teeth, shaving cream, etc. in the middle of the night?  I highly doubt it. 

Which counties in the upstate do not have blue laws?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think that its just the Cities of Greenville and Spartanburg. I could be mistaken though.

I tried to find some information on that and the first listing in my search was our previous topic on SC's Blue Laws

[RestedTraveler]

Note: Please understand that much of my commentary here is sarcasm; however, the idea of voicing your opinion and your suggestions for solutions is quite serious

This past Friday's Greenville Journal had an article about this; however, there is another article in today's Greenville News which goes more in-depth:

City Bars May Face Hurdles

Being a parent of two very young children, I don't get out much in Downtown Greenville after dark, so I've probably missed all the rukus. However, there's evidently a problem with drunken brawls and drunkards in general roaming the streets of downtown and it's all due to the fact that there are too many bars, some of which are "misrepresenting" themselves as restaurants. Oh my! It's only going to get worse once the new ballpark opens and other bars and "restaurants" open throughout the West End!

Call me crazy, but until the stair wells and elevators in the parking garages begin to reek of urine, I don't think we have a real problem (no offense to Columbia, Charleston, or any other major municipalities where I've found this to be the case).

According to this article, there are multiple proposed solutions to this "problem" ranging from stringent restrictions on the numbers of bars and the distances between bars, to more city police patrols.

One thing that comes to mind (and is mentioned in the article) is a greater police presence downtown during hours of heavy drinking. Specifically, I believe it would be good to have officers, in pairs, on bikes (bicycles, not motorcycles) patrolling Main Street and the other side streets and alleyways (I would have suggested that they be on horseback, but if your parking garages reek of urine and your streets reek of manure ... you get the picture). Seriously though, this is something that I know for a fact has been effective in Downtown Orlando, Florida, since it was implemented several years ago (for much the same reason).

What other solutions to this "problem" would any of you suggest? "Air it out" here!

[Greenville]

I don't like the idea of trying to keep people from drinking/having a good time if that's what they choose to do with their lives. If a private business wants to purchase property from another private business and open a bar, who is the city to tell them they can't do it because it's too close to another bar? That is ludicrous.

I think we need to educate the public on what the city is striving for, and have measures in place to take care of those who are truly infringing on the rights of others (public drunkenness, vandalism, etc.). Otherwise, we're going to be a boring city that nobody wants to come to because we don't allow anyone to "have fun." Just because there are bars and clubs does NOT mean that the city has to be unsafe or dirty. The key is managing how people behave when they are outside those bars, and that is within the city's control.

[RestedTraveler]

I don't like the idea of trying to keep people from drinking/having a good time if that's what they choose to do with their lives. If a private business wants to purchase property from another private business and open a bar, who is the city to tell them they can't do it because it's too close to another bar? That is ludicrous.

I think we need to educate the public on what the city is striving for, and have measures in place to take care of those who are truly infringing on the rights of others (public drunkenness, vandalism, etc.). Otherwise, we're going to be a boring city that nobody wants to come to because we don't allow anyone to "have fun." Just because there are bars and clubs does NOT mean that the city has to be unsafe or dirty. The key is managing how people behave when they are outside those bars, and that is within the city's control.

Amen, Brother (or Sister) Greenville!

[Greenville]

Ha ha, it's brother.

[GvilleSC]

I don't like the idea of trying to keep people from drinking/having a good time if that's what they choose to do with their lives. If a private business wants to purchase property from another private business and open a bar, who is the city to tell them they can't do it because it's too close to another bar? That is ludicrous.

I understand what you're saying, but it sounds like you also would have a problem with zoning? I don't want a sex store next to my house... but that's private property being purchased from a private owner opening what they want to... Who's the city to tell them that they can't becuase it's too close to something else?

I think that the city is smart to regulate the proximity of bars- it really will help in the future. Think about it, this is a great opportunity to expand downtown from Main St. It's not going to stop them from being built, I dont think, it will just prevent them from clustering in one place. When there gets to be where there can't be any more built on the Main Street blocks, then they will use the cross streets and other locations and in effect produce a more 3D downtown. JMO

[Greenville]

I like the idea of zoning, but I think it's important that zoning not be too restrictive. In my earlier post about zoning, I guess I was envisioning a very strict philosophy by the city. My point is that I would much rather have a bar open, even if it's a few doors closer to an existing bar than city leaders prefer, than to not get the bar at all. In other words, how restrictive can the city be (to allow for smart, planned growth that we all want and desire) while avoiding the pitfalls of being too restrictive and missing out on some great businesses opening in the city?

[btoy]

I say let the bars come, let them stay open late, let them play loud live music, and let the people dance.

BUT, keep it high class.

PLEASE don't let Greenville become an Ybor City!

[GvilleSC]

I say let the bars come, let them stay open late, let them play loud live music, and let the people dance.

BUT, keep it high class.

PLEASE don't let Greenville become an Ybor City!

I think that that'd be so much fun, but I'd hate to live among that. Especially if you have kids and they can't go to sleep because the bar across the street from your condo is open and playing loud music... I see both sides.

[803metlife]

Tell me about it. It happened on several occasions while I was in Columbia. I'd go to Wal-Mart and they would rope off the non-grocery part at midnight, preventing me from buying what I wanted. It was at this point that I decided that its not worth going there to start with, much less at midnight. Oh well

Columbia doesnt' have the blue code laws but Lexington CO does. You were probally @ the walmart on Harbinson Blvd. Harbinson is half Richland Co. and Lexington Co.So the stores in Richland Co (columbia) can sell appliances etc and Lexington had to wait until 2pm. I think Lexington Co are trying to drop the blue code laws because of disagreements, and it wasn't doing anything but hurting them. But there is an ordiance in Columbia to stop all alchol sales at 2:am sunday. But that is also dum when you can wait a couple of hours on sunday and go to bar, have drinks and watch the games. S.C. is so backwards!!!!!!!!

[RestedTraveler]

I think that the city is smart to regulate the proximity of bars- it really will help in the future. Think about it, this is a great opportunity to expand downtown from Main St. It's not going to stop them from being built, I dont think, it will just prevent them from clustering in one place. When there gets to be where there can't be any more built on the Main Street blocks, then they will use the cross streets and other locations and in effect produce a more 3D downtown. JMO

You raise an excellent point, GvilleSC. Spreading the bars and "restaurants" that misrepresent themselves as bars (again, ignore my sarcasm) out would encourage Main Street expansion (in much the same way cartilage provides space between vertebre - damn that L4 and L5 for being too close together!!!).

However, I guess we should also consider the available locations along Main Street (and on the side streets) and think about whether or not they would be suitable for a restaurant or bar. It may perhaps be that the most suitible locations are not spread out very much and that these establishments are forced to cluster together?

Just trying to meet an excellent point with a decent counterpoint..

[GvilleSC]

You raise an excellent point, GvilleSC. Spreading the bars and "restaurants" that misrepresent themselves as bars (again, ignore my sarcasm) out would encourage Main Street expansion (in much the same way cartilage provides space between vertebre - damn that L4 and L5 for being too close together!!!).

However, I guess we should also consider the available locations along Main Street (and on the side streets) and think about whether or not they would be suitable for a restaurant or bar. It may perhaps be that the most suitible locations are not spread out very much and that these establishments are forced to cluster together?

Just trying to meet an excellent point with a decent counterpoint..

Yea, I see what you're saying with your counterpoint. Ideally, more developments would be built and include this sort of space with retail on the street level and therefore make this possible, but it's probably too risky.

[Greenville]

You raise an excellent point, GvilleSC. Spreading the bars and "restaurants" that misrepresent themselves as bars (again, ignore my sarcasm) out would encourage Main Street expansion (in much the same way cartilage provides space between vertebre - damn that L4 and L5 for being too close together!!!).

I thought I could come to UP for a break from school, and lo and behold I feel like I'm in anatomy lab. Thanks a freakin' lot, RT.

[RestedTraveler]

I thought I could come to UP for a break from school, and lo and behold I feel like I'm in anatomy lab. Thanks a freakin' lot, RT.

[RestedTraveler]

Just noticed this blurb on the WYFF-4 Web Site:

Mayor: No Distance Requirement for Bars

Also, there was an article in today's Greenville News:

City Sinks Plan to Limit Bars