Tallahassee Regional Airport

[Lexy]

Finally Lexy, we do have airport master plan. You can view it on the talgov.com website. You can also view our "hidden" airport website there too. Thanks guys for all your concerns about Tallahassee. We love Atlanta and Nashville. Hopefully, we may have service to Nashville someday.

Thanks a million for the link. That is greatly appreciated. I have intrest in Tally and that is why I found this thread. I seriously believe that Tally is underserved and that in the future, this issue may be addressed accordingly. Until then, it is just really a Delta market. But I have faith. LOL!!!

[Florida]

Tallahassee has to be the most underserved market when it comes to everything. Sure we're smaller than your large metros, but Leon County alone is pushing 300,000 and is missing some key ingredients that some communities half our size already have.

Yes we're ignored, but I keep holding onto the faith that one of these days, someone will realize the foregone opportunities and sieze this place.

[BHCav]

When Tally becomes pro-business this place will be booming and will become known. Just give another 50 years.

[johnatl]

Lexy - Yes, I am in the industry - for over 20 years now. I'm the one that backed you up re: BNA on the other forum. I consider being labeled "asinine and narrowminded" as you taking a tone. I know what I'm talking about. And while were at it, you equating AirTran with Valuejet is pretty ignorant. You are blaming something a contractor did on an airline that basically doesn't exist anymore. BUT, I realize you are entitled to your opinion, however misguided and uninformed it may be. As far as Hartsfield being a "disaster waiting to happen" that is pure BS, and it's very irresponsible for you to claim that your "air traffic controller friends" intimated such a thing. ATL has never had a major crash, and the new 5th runway is working like a charm at relieving congestion all over the country - just like it was supposed to. I'm glad you think that Hartsfield helps all of these other airports, because indeed it does. With one-stop connections to all 50 states and cities all over the world.

Poonther - I appreciate all of your points, and they are well taken. I too think TLH deserves any service it can support. And I wasn't talking down to you guys - note the "please don't take this the wrong way" that I prefaced my remark with. And I am glad that you can access Houston with Continental, that opens up a lot of options.

TaureanJ - This dude from Atlanta doesn't think "its God's gift to the world" by any means. You need to knock that big chip off your shoulder. Are you trying to tell me that someone who knows and loves this industry can't come here and offer some insight as to the reasons things work they way they do? If so, forgive me for trying to shed some light and offer some informed opinions. I happen to love Tallahassee. Went through Jr. High and the first year of High School there. Guess what? TLH had more air service back in the 70's when I was growing up than it does now. Somethings not right down there, and I find it fascinating that the same things are being discussed now as back then. You are right - Tallahassee DOES get short-changed, and it's been going on for years.

[ghostOFtheSuwanee]

Lexy - Yes, I am in the industry - for over 20 years now. I'm the one that backed you up re: BNA on the other forum. I consider being labeled "asinine and narrowminded" as you taking a tone. I know what I'm talking about. And while were at it, you equating AirTran with Valuejet is pretty ignorant. You are blaming something a contractor did on an airline that basically doesn't exist anymore. BUT, I realize you are entitled to your opinion, however misguided and uninformed it may be. As far as Hartsfield being a "disaster waiting to happen" that is pure BS, and it's very irresponsible for you to claim that your "air traffic controller friends" intimated such a thing. ATL has never had a major crash, and the new 5th runway is working like a charm at relieving congestion all over the country - just like it was supposed to. I'm glad you think that Hartsfield helps all of these other airports, because indeed it does. With one-stop connections to all 50 states and cities all over the world.

Poonther - I appreciate all of your points, and they are well taken. I too think TLH deserves any service it can support. And I wasn't talking down to you guys - note the "please don't take this the wrong way" that I prefaced my remark with. And I am glad that you can access Houston with Continental, that opens up a lot of options.

TaureanJ - This dude from Atlanta doesn't think "its God's gift to the world" by any means. You need to knock that big chip off your shoulder. Are you trying to tell me that someone who knows and loves this industry can't come here and offer some insight as to the reasons things work they way they do? If so, forgive me for trying to shed some light and offer some informed opinions. I happen to love Tallahassee. Went through Jr. High and the first year of High School there. Guess what? TLH had more air service back in the 70's when I was growing up than it does now. Somethings not right down there, and I find it fascinating that the same things are being discussed now as back then. You are right - Tallahassee DOES get short-changed, and it's been going on for years.

I travel more than the average bear and do my best to avoid ATL. It's not because of the airside stuff. I'm sure that you're right about on-time flights and stuff like that. It's just that as a frequent traveler, I know that whichever carrier I choose, and whichever airport I find myself in, I'm going to have a pretty good chance of delays and missed flights.

For me it's about being comfortable and productive while I wait. So let's look at ATL from that perspective. It's noisy, has only corporate restaurants and bad ones at that, no quiet places to work, spotty WiFi, loud TV monitors running CNN that you can't get away from and did I mention it's noisy? Other big airports have art galleries (TLH comes to mind), museums (SFO has 3 that I know of), local restaurants (MEM''s BBQ, Rose City at PDX, etc.), free WiFi (TLH...wow..we're not that bad), a place to take a shower after that unexpected 8 hours in the airport (AMS comes to mind but there are others).

If you want to see an airport that really works for pax, check out Singapore (sleeping lounge, free massage chairs, amazing food choices, excellent intermodal transport design, etc.)

I still fly through ATL because sometimes it's the only option. I'll be there this week. I do avoid it when I can.

[Florida]

Johnatl,

I do appreciate your input, but your tone is harsh. I believe I read a comment of yours that says we're lucky to have service to any city, and it touched me the wrong way. I know we're not an ATL, but we hold our own and deserve just as much to fly as any other community.

[Go Gators]

Ill chip in a little bit. As a non resident, I see both sides. JohnATL, you did seem a bit harsh out of the gates, but at the same time, realistic. Tally forumers dont like theyre town being talked about negatively, nor should they like it.

I would venture to say that economics is the main reason for limited carriers here. They supply provided by the current carriers is meeting demand. If we, as the consumer, are not willing to pay the price the supplier is offering, then prices will go down, eventually.

Anyway, I happen to love Atlanta and Tallahassee, but no matter how you spin it, AirTran does equal ValuJet.

When Tally becomes pro-business this place will be booming and will become known. Just give another 50 years.

Probably the smartest post in this thread thus far.

[seminole]

When Tally becomes pro-business this place will be booming and will become known. Just give another 50 years.

I agree. Once we get some really businesses in here and get those cranes swinging, the airport will be booming!!!!!

[johnatl]

Johnatl,

I do appreciate your input, but your tone is harsh. I believe I read a comment of yours that says we're lucky to have service to any city, and it touched me the wrong way. I know we're not an ATL, but we hold our own and deserve just as much to fly as any other community.

Guys, the last thing I wanted to do was to come across as "harsh", sorry if I sent off those vibes. Lexy's remarks set me off, so I can understand.

TaureanJ, sorry man - but I did indeed say Tallahassee is lucky to have any service at all. Let me explain. In the current climate the airlines are in (massive losses, $80 per barrel oil, etc.) capacity is being cut like crazy, RJ's are taking over routes they never used to fly, and there are literally hundreds and hundreds of almost new jets parked in the desert. As an example, Cleveland is one of Continentals three hubs. This is a metro of over 2.5 million - and guess what? They are down to only 48 mainline jets a day! For a hub, this is really sad. RJ's have taken over almost all of the flying. Another example is Augusta, a metro of roughly twice the size of Tallahassee, with roughly a third of the choices you guys have. Like Tallahassee, it's a growing area not really close to any other large cities - so you would think they would have more options, but no.

The reason I said what I did is because of the actual demand for flights from TLH. I want to show you guys how many people actually fly every day between TLH and your top ten markets. These numbers are not connecting passengers, but the actual number of people who actually end their trips in the respective cities:

Atlanta - 162

NYC - 153

Ft. Lauderdale - 111

D.C. - 109

Dallas - 84

Chicago - 80

Philadelphia - 71

Baltimore - 56

Denver - 56

Boston - 55

Source: www.faremeasure.com

With numbers like these, I really think at present you guys are very well served. Until these numbers show some dramatic increase, things aren't going to change anytime soon.

[Go Gators]

TaureanJ, sorry man - but I did indeed say Tallahassee is lucky to have any service at all. Let me explain. In the current climate the airlines are in (massive losses, $80 per barrel oil, etc.) capacity is being cut like crazy, RJ's are taking over routes they never used to fly, and there are literally hundreds and hundreds of almost new jets parked in the desert. As an example, Cleveland is one of Continentals three hubs. This is a metro of over 2.5 million - and guess what? They are down to only 48 mainline jets a day! For a hub, this is really sad. RJ's have taken over almost all of the flying. Another example is Augusta, a metro of roughly twice the size of Tallahassee, with roughly a third of the choices you guys have. Like Tallahassee, it's a growing area not really close to any other large cities - so you would think they would have more options, but no.

The reason I said what I did is because of the actual demand for flights from TLH. I want to show you guys how many people actually fly every day between TLH and your top ten markets. These numbers are not connecting passengers, but the actual number of people who actually end their trips in the respective cities:

Atlanta - 162

NYC - 153

Ft. Lauderdale - 111

D.C. - 109

Dallas - 84

Chicago - 80

Philadelphia - 71

Baltimore - 56

Denver - 56

Boston - 55

Source: www.faremeasure.com

With numbers like these, I really think at present you guys are very well served. Until these numbers show some dramatic increase, things aren't going to change anytime soon.

Interesting, and sad. Its all about Supply and Demand, like I said.

[poonther]

Interesting info there johnatl. Those are really our top ten final destination markets? I'm very surprised w/all the State Gov. biz in town that Miami, Orlando and Tampa aren't in the top ten. I am also very surprised that ATL is our top destination. Most folks I know that when they visit ATL they just drive there and only use the airport when connecting on through. My household using the airport like we do, only 2 cities in the top ten are our destinations: FLL and NYC if that does include EWR (Newark.)

[Florida]

Guys, the last thing I wanted to do was to come across as "harsh", sorry if I sent off those vibes. Lexy's remarks set me off, so I can understand.

TaureanJ, sorry man - but I did indeed say Tallahassee is lucky to have any service at all. Let me explain. In the current climate the airlines are in (massive losses, $80 per barrel oil, etc.) capacity is being cut like crazy, RJ's are taking over routes they never used to fly, and there are literally hundreds and hundreds of almost new jets parked in the desert. As an example, Cleveland is one of Continentals three hubs. This is a metro of over 2.5 million - and guess what? They are down to only 48 mainline jets a day! For a hub, this is really sad. RJ's have taken over almost all of the flying. Another example is Augusta, a metro of roughly twice the size of Tallahassee, with roughly a third of the choices you guys have. Like Tallahassee, it's a growing area not really close to any other large cities - so you would think they would have more options, but no.

The reason I said what I did is because of the actual demand for flights from TLH. I want to show you guys how many people actually fly every day between TLH and your top ten markets. These numbers are not connecting passengers, but the actual number of people who actually end their trips in the respective cities:

Atlanta - 162

NYC - 153

Ft. Lauderdale - 111

D.C. - 109

Dallas - 84

Chicago - 80

Philadelphia - 71

Baltimore - 56

Denver - 56

Boston - 55

Source: www.faremeasure.com

With numbers like these, I really think at present you guys are very well served. Until these numbers show some dramatic increase, things aren't going to change anytime soon.

Your numbers are very interesting and like Poonther I'm surprised FLL is the only other Florida city on the list, and not Miami. Consider for a minute with me the possibility that travelers in this market prefer not to fly at all because fares are out of reach these days. I'd like to see the numbers for Greyhound since AirTran left. AirTran's presence in this market, as a discount carrier, gave travel in and out of Tallahassee new life. There was actual marketing of the airport, where non exists now, and fares were a great bit lower.

Why should we be satisified with a decline in ridership caused by unattractive service and pricing options and no marketing of AirTravel by any carrier, including Delta.

[Go Gators]

Why should we be satisified with a decline in ridership caused by unattractive service and pricing options and no marketing of AirTravel by any carrier, including Delta.

I dont think its a matter of whether the people are satisfied or not. There arent enough people using the airport for there to be legitimate complaints b/c the airlines will say, "you have less than 200 people fly to Atlanta a day, be thankful were still in your market." And that will make you mad, but still, at least they are offering service here still.

Delta doesnt market here because they dont have too.

[DaiDreamer5]

Interesting info there johnatl. Those are really our top ten final destination markets? I'm very surprised w/all the State Gov. biz in town that Miami, Orlando and Tampa aren't in the top ten. I am also very surprised that ATL is our top destination. Most folks I know that when they visit ATL they just drive there and only use the airport when connecting on through. My household using the airport like we do, only 2 cities in the top ten are our destinations: FLL and NYC if that does include EWR (Newark.)

Most of the people here at my office drive to Orlando and Tampa. They like avoiding the hassel of airports and rental cars.

The trip to Atlanta is also not a direct trip from what I understand. You have to take a few back roads to get there. Getting to Tampa or Orlando, you take I10 to I75 and the Turnpike.

I think flying is out of the budget of most Tallahassee residents (most people in general now). It is the best way to travel if you travel alone, but it is better to drive if you have a family.

[insituphoto]

Atlanta - 162

NYC - 153

Ft. Lauderdale - 111

D.C. - 109

Dallas - 84

Chicago - 80

Philadelphia - 71

Baltimore - 56

Denver - 56

Boston - 55

Interesting... So why did the non-stop to JFK die? Aside from the fact it was a 6AM flight!

I'd think at least one or two regional jets to DC a day would work too.

[AlaninTally]

Hello,

I went to faremeasure.com and did the same query. Miami came out with a total of 57 daily passengers, definitely ahead of Baltimore, Denver and Boston. Tampa only had 27.

[poonther]

Delta doesnt market here because they dont have too.

And that's what I hate about the whole deal! Of course I understand it, but that doesn't mean I have to like. I feel like a traitor every time I fly Delta which is way more than I should.

DaiDreamer5 you do make good points, but you'd be surprised at how many politicians and lobbyist fly to and from TPA and MCO. They must be the only ones that can afford it.

US 319 (all four laned) to I-75 in Tifton northward to ATL isn't that hard to do at all and not what I'd really call backroads.

And for the record, I never take 10 to 75 to TPA. I use 27/19 to the Suncoast P'way(using SunPass) and get there in the same amount of time if not sooner to the airport area and the drive is way less stressful.

[Go Gators]

And that's what I hate about the whole deal! Of course I understand it, but that doesn't mean I have to like. I feel like a traitor every time I fly Delta which is way more than I should.

I hear you.

[Florida]

My point is how can you really know what the demand is for something that isn't marketed. Our airport is "Out of sight, out of mind" for most people in this city. I know tons of people who'd much rather Fly than bus for 5 times the duration. If the prices we're more reasonable, I'm sure the demand for flight thruough Tallahassee would be much higher.

[Go Gators]

My point is how can you really know what the demand is for something that isn't marketed.

Doesnt really matter in this case. Everyone knows there is an airport in Tallahassee. And with technology today (ie Orbitz, Travelocity, Travelzoo, etc) people can book their own flights and know Tallahassee is an option. There just arent enough ticket sales in this area to launch a huge marketing campaign.

[SkyDave]

Hey Guys!!! Enough with ALL the NEGATIVITY!!!!

Johnatl, We appreciate your input but, both your conclusions and your web site information are wrong. I did some research and found the following items on the faremeasure.com website.

1. The data on this web site is incomplete. If you click on Tallahassee Listing of final destinations you see any number of major US cities. (no international destinations).
   
2. The data on this web site is dated. 1999-2000. If you click on the Tallahassee to Atlanta Ga. flights it will show two airlines serving this market. Delta and Airtran. All of Tallahassee knows that Airtran left this market in Sept. 2003. Date of infamy for us!!!
   
3. The fares listed are flat out wrong. It lists fares to Atlanta for $103.42 one way and $196.50. Those days have long since past since Airtran left. Currently, a roundtrip airfare to Atlanta is $376. That is with a 21 day advanced notice. (Sunday Tallahassee Democrat , business section, 7/23/06)
   
4. I then clicked on Jacksonville Fl. Listing of final destinations and faremeasure.com lists Jacksonville 102 flights daily. ABSURD!!! Go to Jacksonville Airport's website and on the home page it will tell you that Jacksonville has 5 million passengers a year and over 200 flights a day.
   

Now, guys lets go over airport basics 101. The problem for us is that we have 1 big chief (Delta) and many little chiefs....(USAirways, Northwest, Continental, etc.) The one big chief is in deep trouble because of its business model. IT DOESN"T WORK!!!! The big chief cut back service in all cities especially the 2nd and 3rd Tier cities (Tallahassee) getting the brunt of the cutbacks. The resulting shortfall in capacity was not due to demand, but because the major airline in town is trying to survive. The little chiefs are picking up the pieces left behind by the big chief and are making the best of the new opportunities. Hence, more good news for Tallahassee and other 2nd and 3rd tier cities.

Now for some updated news you really can use!!!

http://www.talgov.com/communications/newsdetail.cfm?id=527

Imagine that!!! US Airways increasing capacity from a 50 seater JET to a 70 seater five times a day.. everyday. I guess that is a reality slap in the face of all the negative ones on this board. 350 seats a day to Charlotte. I believe the faremeasure.com said it was 26 total passengers a day to Charlotte.

If you care to review previous posts, you will find additional good news as Northwest , Com Air, ASA, and Continental are ALL also increasing capacity by adding flights.

Guys take a CHILL PILL, it is getting better.

[Go Gators]

Dont confuse a different point of view as negativity. The "other" ideas are just as valid as all the "positive" ones. I dont think anyone here wants TLH to crumble. But lets also not let our egos make us think that what we have is any better than it actually is.

[Florida]

Dont confuse a different point of view as negativity. The "other" ideas are just as valid as all the "positive" ones. I dont think anyone here wants TLH to crumble. But lets also not let our egos make us think that what we have is any better than it actually is.

There's a difference between differing view points and negativity. What we read in the previous posts is largely negativity, primarily by persons outside of this community. That's not to come down on anyone. As stated, we're all entitled to our view points. But when some of us here are saying Delta isn't the only answer and others are saying "You're lucky to have anyone serving you" it sounds a little pessimistic in my mind.

I for one appreciate the fact that SkyDave had the desire to do some research on this matter. I like knowing that things aren't as bad as people often say they are. We know things haven't been their best at the airport, but it's aleast comforting to know our situation is getting better

[SkyDave]

Don't confuse a different point of view as negativity. The "other" ideas are just as valid as all the "positive" ones. I don't think anyone here wants TLH to crumble. But lets also not let our egos make us think that what we have is any better than it actually is.

GG, I firmly believe in diversity of thought and I cherish all input. However, I do have a problem with inaccurate data and falsely drawn conclusions. As TJ so eloquently stated, most of the folks espousing the negative comments don't even live here. Just because we live in what demographers call a third tier city, doesn't mean we or our airport are horrible. I fly a lot and I know what I experience when I use the airport. That's why I felt the numbers and the argument didn't add up. So, I did some research. If the research validated the argument, then so be it. However, clearly, it did not, so I called it to everyones attention.

Finally, ego had nothing to do with it. It's all about the facts!!!! I just want everyone to celebrate the good news that we are experiencing whenever it happens. Of course we have along way to go. We all have ideas of how we get there, but positive things are happening and deserve our recognition.

[johnatl]

Well, faremeasure gives what I would call a "snapshot" of things. No, I did not realize that they still had AirTran listed as serving TLH. So SkyDave - What research did you really do? Did you just delve a little deeper into faremeasure? For totally accurate figures, you have to go to the US DOT website - and I don't have the time to do it, as it can take hours to find what you need. Sorry I missed Miami numbers - by one whopping passenger, yes they do beat out Baltimore and Denver!

There are several things I would like to point out. Delta is turning around and is actually becoming profitable again. Last quarter results prove the turnaround plan is working. The shift in capacity is because of their huge international expansion, which has vaulted them to the number 1 carrier across the Atlantic - something that would of been unheard of just 2 years ago. Although SkyDave pointed out some great new service to USAirways' Charlotte hub, I think it's probably too much capacity unless it's priced right. If not, 350 seats a day to Charlotte is way too much. I would also like to point out that Comair and ASA are DELTA! One other inaccurate statement of SkyDave's is that Delta runs 757's into TLH. Wrong! The only time a 757 would come in is if one of the Universities chartered it. Pensacola is a much larger and busier airport, and they are just now getting 757's this fall for the first time ever. These planes are waaaay too much capacity for TLH.

As far as all these "outsider", "negativity", blah, blah, blah remarks - it really makes you guys come off as very provincial. If a constructive discussion like this deteriorates into these sort of feelings, it tells me you guys are just a little bit too defensive regarding TLH. Yes, it's a great town - but sometimes it's good to get a reality check. I though I could provide one. You have taught me very clearly that you all would rather just not hear about anything that isn't gushing boosterism. I wont bother you any more.