Tallahassee Regional Airport

[Go Gators]

TJ and SKyDave

All Im saying is that it seems that if anyone says anything somewhat bad or something that may not be up to par in Tallahassee, everyone gets defensive. If everything was perfect in this town, why would there be a need for this board, and what would the town have to work toward? Unfortunately, sometimes pessimism is the reality.

Just because someone is not from the respected town does not mean that they can not contribute just as much as a lifelong resident. Industries stretch across city limits. Regardless of how good one thinks something is, in the end, you have to call it what it is.

As far as my ego statement, that was not directed toward anyone inparticular, nor used in a negative connotaion.

I, for one, would like to continue to hear from JohnATL and find out why TLH cannot lure more business (besides the obvious points) and what can be done to change that. I think it is childish if we shue someone away because of constructive criticism.

[poonther]

Hey GG what's happened in this thread is not unique to the Tally boards in IMO. I find this sort of defensive behavior in every city's threads. I believe you frequent other city's threads, ATL and ORL I think and surely you've seen this sort of thing happen there too. I know I've posted "non-gleaming" stuff about Orlando and was basically told to shut up and get out even though I've lived there before and worked for the Regional Planning Council there. I'm not sure about what goes on in the ATL threads as I really have no interest. But I don't think it makes us anymore provincial acting than those on other city's threads.

That said, I too have enjoyed this discussion and wish it would continue. I was questioning some of faremeasure's findings and was glad to learn that SD found out why. I was also happy to read johnatl's comments. I just think his problem was in his tone which of course is an easy thing to misunderstand on the internet.

I definitely don't think Tally is perfect and know there are many things we need to work on. I appreciate hearing them from other folks just as long as it's not in the form of an attack and I think that is how johnatl's comments were taken. Once he finally said he lived here before and worked in the airline industry I understood where he was coming from. However I've always taken offense to his comments that state we are lucky to have Delta here. I know that if an atomic bomb were dropped on Tally tomorrow 2 things would survive: Cockroaches and Delta airlines would still be flying into TLH. They or their feeder airlines (ASA etc) serve, strangle and monopolize much smaller airports throughout the South like Dothan, Valdosta, PC, G'ville etc etc. So unless they get into more serious financial troubles, I truly doubt they'd ever leave or market entirely.

I think johnatl's last post was a little high on the dramatics and I personally invite him to continue chatting w/us on this subject. Not everyone will agree and sometimes the cold hard truth is difficult to swallow, but for me that's what this place is about: CIVIL DISCUSSION.

Now as I leave this post, in two hours I'm picking up a relative at TLH and guess what airline he's flying on?

[Florida]

TJ and SKyDave

All Im saying is that it seems that if anyone says anything somewhat bad or something that may not be up to par in Tallahassee, everyone gets defensive. If everything was perfect in this town, why would there be a need for this board, and what would the town have to work toward? Unfortunately, sometimes pessimism is the reality.

Just because someone is not from the respected town does not mean that they can not contribute just as much as a lifelong resident. Industries stretch across city limits. Regardless of how good one thinks something is, in the end, you have to call it what it is.

As far as my ego statement, that was not directed toward anyone inparticular, nor used in a negative connotaion.

I, for one, would like to continue to hear from JohnATL and find out why TLH cannot lure more business (besides the obvious points) and what can be done to change that. I think it is childish if we shue someone away because of constructive criticism.

With anything negative said on this board about Tallahassee, or said in person to me about something else a second opinion is always appreciated to get more than one view point. I wouldn't sit and defend a wreckless argument. Truth is Johnatl's argument was based on inaccurate figures. He can defend it as much as he wants by continuing to bring up one issue after the other, or he can offer some type of creative solution to what he sees as a problem. It's like a teacher saying to a parent "your child is unteachable" vs. "If you work with your child at home, he or she will be a much better student".

There's not a place in this country without its problems, big or small. Truth is, people would fly in and out of this city if they had more of an incentive to do so. That incentive of course being lower Air Fares. How annoying is it to see someone can fly from coast to coast on Southwest Airlines for $49 vs not even getting off the ground in Tallahassee for less than $200. Heck I've got a few places I'd like to go right now, lord knows I'd take the plane to each one if I could save that kind of money.

[Go Gators]

Truth is Johnatl's argument was based on inaccurate figures. He can defend it as much as he wants by continuing to bring up one issue after the other, or he can offer some type of creative solution to what he sees as a problem. It's like a teacher saying to a parent "your child is unteachable" vs. "If you work with your child at home, he or she will be a much better student".

There's not a place in this country without its problems, big or small. Truth is, people would fly in and out of this city if they had more of an incentive to do so. That incentive of course being lower Air Fares. How annoying is it to see someone can fly from coast to coast on Southwest Airlines for $49 vs not even getting off the ground in Tallahassee for less than $200. Heck I've got a few places I'd like to go right now, lord knows I'd take the plane to each one if I could save that kind of money.

I dont know if JohnATL is completely inaccurate.

I get your teacher/parent illustration, but it is completely different in business.

And on people needing more incentive to fly out, I would say the airlines need more incentive from the people to offer an incentive. Its absolutely a 2 way road. Like Ive said many times, the supply is meeting the demand.

[Florida]

I honestly DO understand what you're saying. But that is the problem that plagues us today. Companies assume they've reached out and captured a market when a whole segment of people feel ignored. I'm saying we need a discount carrier because the same people that would spend $75 - $100 to ride a Greyhound bus would go wild for a $49 dollar flight to anywhere in the country. Knowing I could capture that market is an incentive for me.

[DaiDreamer5]

Yes, JohnATL's figures were innaccurate. However he admited that after it was brought up. None of us are being paid to be here (at least I hope not!) so I am forgiving of such things.

But the basic point still holds true. We are lucky to have what airline connections we have. Tallahassee isn't a very rich community; those that have the money probably don't have much ties to the community itself (college students, government reps, etc). As of right now, our enomony is still heavily based on seasonal residents. The city basically shuts down with the students aren't here and certian business depend on the money that the legistative business brings (well until recently).

Yes, the city is trying to change this. TurboCorps is a good first step. Yet the fact remains that the average Tallahassee resident can't afford to fly now a days. I know I can't. And I think most of those on this board can't afford to fly either (correct me if I am wrong). Even it it was at pre Air Tran prices, I might be able to fly once a year (if it was a worthwhile trip).

Would I love having an airline besides Delta here? Hell yeah! Would I use it? Probably not but it is nice to have it here. Too bad business can't make money on "it's nice to have available"

Edited to add: $49 flights? Where can you get those these days? I want to know!

*puts on flame suit*

[BHCav]

How active is the airport's leadership in luring airlines here? It appears on the outside that there is a lot of sitting on hands going on there. Why no marketing? TLH needs to start being run like its a business.

[Florida]

Edited to add: $49 flights? Where can you get those these days? I want to know!

*puts on flame suit*

Check Southwest Airlines. My whole argument all along is that we need a discount carrier here. If we had one, the airport would be flooded with passengers.

[insituphoto]

If the airline industry, at large, is hurting so much, supposedly due to fuel costs... how do some airlines in Europe offer insanely cheap tickets? The model they use, and don't quote me on this, is to allow advanced-scheduled leisure travellers to pay rock bottom prices for their tickets and hit up last minute business travellers with premium rates. Also, their definition of "no frills" literally means things like no reclining seats, pay for your Cokes and peanutes, recycle the airline magazine. These airlines even put Southwest and JetBlue to shame. I see flights advertised today for as little as ONE PENCE + taxes. That's about $15! Why can't this work here?

We flew EasyJet between Berlin, London, Paris, Nice, and Munich respectively and spent no more than about $250 each for all 6 flights!

EasyJet

RyanAir

Air Berlin

BMI Baby

Jet2.com

Thomson Fly

[Go Gators]

I honestly DO understand what you're saying. But that is the problem that plagues us today. Companies assume they've reached out and captured a market when a whole segment of people feel ignored. I'm saying we need a discount carrier because the same people that would spend $75 - $100 to ride a Greyhound bus would go wild for a $49 dollar flight to anywhere in the country. Knowing I could capture that market is an incentive for me.

Your right, it is a vicious cycle. I would love to have JetBlue or Song or Southwest here at Tallahassee. But what these other companies do are look at the companies numbers who are already here. Tallahassee, as it currently stands, is just not an enticing market...yet. These companies are seeing the type of ROI they would like to see for their risk.

DaiDreamer hit the nail on the head as well.

[Florida]

Your right, it is a vicious cycle. I would love to have JetBlue or Song or Southwest here at Tallahassee. But what these other companies do are look at the companies numbers who are already here. Tallahassee, as it currently stands, is just not an enticing market...yet. These companies are seeing the type of ROI they would like to see for their risk.

DaiDreamer hit the nail on the head as well.

How could they fairly compare themselves to the carriers we currently have serving us when no other Airline flying Tallahassee offers fares anywhere close to what Southwest offers.

[BHCav]

Atlanta - 162

NYC - 153

Ft. Lauderdale - 111

D.C. - 109

Dallas - 84

Chicago - 80

Philadelphia - 71

Baltimore - 56

Denver - 56

Boston - 55

Since Tally has flights to cities all over the country, why don't they change the name to Tallahassee National Airport? I don't know if there even is such a thing as a national airport, but if there is it would help with prestege and appear more enticing.

[DaiDreamer5]

Check Southwest Airlines. My whole argument all along is that we need a discount carrier here. If we had one, the airport would be flooded with passengers.

http://www.southwest.com/hotfares/

Hmmm... You are right, though the prices are one way. 100 to get from Tallahassee to West Palm Beach Florida is MUCH better than 400 dollars.

I don't see how delta can run an airline that offers those prices out of town. Perhaps Delta is greasing some palms here.

However can our population supply the load that make those prices reasonable? I assume that those prices are so low due to bulk. Hmm... Most of the cities on that map are large metro areas.

Perhaps we need to start a letter writing campaign?

[poonther]

Yet the fact remains that the average Tallahassee resident can't afford to fly now a days.

In my world of Tally, primarly the non-state government tech community, this sentence is far from the truth and we are all tied the community year round. Also everyone on my block (none of which are techies) has flown at least once out of TLH just this year to my knowledge.....I know I get their mail.

[AlaninTally]

I think the concept of "expensive" may come from your respective area of town or situation. I know a lot of people who fly all the time, so in my view, quite a few Tallahasseans can afford to fly. If I were living in the student section of town, my view I am sure would be skewed towards thrifty college students.

When I fly out of Tallahassee (and I am by no means wealthy), I see a great mix of people. Flying by plane is no longer glamorous (and hasn't been for a long while) and restricted to only the wealthy. You see businessmen, ragamuffin students, rednecks, poonther, whatever

I don't think our city is a poor city and definitely isn't as seasonal as it may have once been. 23,000 FSU students during the summer is a quite a large amount.

It would be wonderful to have a low cost carrier in our city. But, would it really make that much of a difference? If people don't have enough money to fly, would they have enough money for hotels, restaurants, shopping, entertainment at their destination? I don't know the answer. Did AirTran make an exponential difference in Tallahasseans travel plans? I don't think so because people still were driving to Jax for cheap flights. We had a low cost airline and Tallaahasseans still didn't support it. With circumstances beyond and within our control, we lost it. How appealing is that to another low cost carrier to come to Tally?

[insituphoto]

Oh yeah, my aforementioned European airlines also save money by flying to alternative airports. So using their model, TLH would be more attractive than JAX or ATL.

Sanford vs. Orlando Intl.

Opa Locka vs. Miami

Gainesville vs. Jax

etc etc etc

[Florida]

I think the concept of "expensive" may come from your respective area of town or situation. I know a lot of people who fly all the time, so in my view, quite a few Tallahasseans can afford to fly. If I were living in the student section of town, my view I am sure would be skewed towards thrifty college students.

When I fly out of Tallahassee (and I am by no means wealthy), I see a great mix of people. Flying by plane is no longer glamorous (and hasn't been for a long while) and restricted to only the wealthy. You see businessmen, ragamuffin students, rednecks, poonther, whatever

I don't think our city is a poor city and definitely isn't as seasonal as it may have once been. 23,000 FSU students during the summer is a quite a large amount.

It would be wonderful to have a low cost carrier in our city. But, would it really make that much of a difference? If people don't have enough money to fly, would they have enough money for hotels, restaurants, shopping, entertainment at their destination? I don't know the answer. Did AirTran make an exponential difference in Tallahasseans travel plans? I don't think so because people still were driving to Jax for cheap flights. We had a low cost airline and Tallaahasseans still didn't support it. With circumstances beyond and within our control, we lost it. How appealing is that to another low cost carrier to come to Tally?

I agree with you. Tallahassee is no longer a seasonal city. But a discount carrier would make a great difference. A major reason people travel from here to Jax to fly is because they have Southwest Airlines and we didn't. AirTran was a discount carrier, but it was no Southwest. And if people are going to travel by air, car, train, or bus my hope is they will be able to afford their stay the final destination. I don't know if AirTran was making an exponential difference, but during their entire stay in Tallahassee our passenger traffic went up a good bit every month. The difference was obvious, and keep in mind this was Post Sept 11th. I think we had to be one of the few Airports with increasing traffic for the year or so following. Never once did numbers fall while they were here... that's the difference a discount carrier made.

[Go Gators]

How could they fairly compare themselves to the carriers we currently have serving us when no other Airline flying Tallahassee offers fares anywhere close to what Southwest offers.

Because they know you will go to Jacksonville to save $100 or more on a ticket, so they dont really care about what Delta is doing in "little ole" Tallahassee.

[TD]

hehe prime example. my sister is flying into Tampa International today instead of tallahassee to save money, we just so happened to be in the area on vacation (tampa) so iot worked out, but she wanted to fly directly to TLH.

I think a major problem tally needs to address is Tourism! we need a amusement park or something cool to draw people to fly into here... nobody wants to come here for fun, their is nothing to do for fun that you cant do in your own city.

[insituphoto]

I think a major problem tally needs to address is Tourism! we need a amusement park or something cool to draw people to fly into here... nobody wants to come here for fun, their is nothing to do for fun that you cant do in your own city.

The coast... the beach... Eco-tourism. Tallahassee is the gateway to the coast. We need to capture that market.

[poonther]

Because they know you will go to Jacksonville to save $100 or more on a ticket, so they dont really care about what Delta is doing in "little ole" Tallahassee.

I've never totally understand why people do this. It's 340 miles round trip to JAX. Based on forty cents per mile, you'd have to save $136 dollars on the flight to save money plus you lose 5 to 6 hours of time and to me, time is money. JAX has never really entered into my equation for flying.

insituphoto you'd got it w/the eco-tourism. I've don't know why we don't market it more. Is that a shot of you and The Lady insituphoto on the plane?

[SkyDave]

I have gone on some family vacations where we had to purchase tickets for six persons. The costs out TLH were outrageous. We saved over $1200 dollars flying out of JAX. BTW, when traveling alone I have never traveled out JAX and use our beloved TLH airport.

[insituphoto]

Is that a shot of you and The Lady insituphoto on the plane?

Yep.

[insituphoto]

Spoke to my Chautaqua pilot friend this morning. The deal I referenced earlier... Continental has selected Chautaqua to be one its regional carriers, dropping ExpressJet. Chautauqua is acquiring 45 Embraer 175s which are 80-seater, engine under the wing, 2-aisle-2 seater, regional jets. They're like a cross between a regional jet and a 737. They've acquired 25 175's from USAirways and are working to get 20 more from somewhere.

He says that the industry at-large is gravitating toward the 70 - 90 seater regional jets to be the mainstay of aviation in the future. Expect to see more of those here in Tallahassee in the next couple years.

[ghostOFtheSuwanee]

Spoke to my Chautaqua pilot friend this morning. The deal I referenced earlier... Continental has selected Chautaqua to be one its regional carriers, dropping ExpressJet. Chautauqua is acquiring 45 Embraer 175s which are 80-seater, engine under the wing, 2-aisle-2 seater, regional jets. They're like a cross between a regional jet and a 737. They've acquired 25 175's from USAirways and are working to get 20 more from somewhere.

He says that the industry at-large is gravitating toward the 70 - 90 seater regional jets to be the mainstay of aviation in the future. Expect to see more of those here in Tallahassee in the next couple years.

I hate those things. I'd rather take the bullet train (which we all voted to develop) to JAX or MCO and catch a real plane from there. Speaking of real planes; I was on a DL flight last week where a piece of the ceiling in the mid-aisle was being held up with some sort of duct tape. Note to Delta: duct tape as a repair method is not a good marketing tool.

The good news from ATL is that there is a new (to me) restaurant that has some real tasty cornbread and greens. I can't remember the pod that it's in...maybe B..the one that has that 2nd level beer and cigarettes dive.