The Coal Plant

[Florida]

North Florida Power Project

The North Florida Power Project (NFPP) is an 800 Megawatt coal fired power plant proposed by a group of consumer-owned electric utilities in Florida with a preferred site identified in Taylor County. It was developed in respond to the collective need of the partners for additional resources in the near term and considered the following issues:

* Growth Rate

* Increased Scarcity of Natural Gas

* Volitatile Natural Gas Prices and increased dependance on one fuel type

* Need to diversify energy sources

Tallahassee Participation:

The City was approached by the NFPP regarding taking 20% owndership in the project when Seminole Electric Cooperative withdrew from the project (they decided to increase the size of their current coal facility).

Tallahassee's participation in the next phase would require the city to reimburse existing and prior participants for costs incurred during the development stage to date and a proportionate share of costs associated with the ongoing development to the point that the Site Certification issued, a share estimated at around $2.5-6.4 Million. If Tallahassee participates, we will be responsible for $300 Million in construction costs, and depending on the availibility of electric transmission capacity, the City may have to construct additional transmission lines at a cost of aprox $60 Million.

The project as currently proposed offers a unique opportunity for the city to acquire some diversity in its power supply portfolio. By joining the partnership at this stage the city has the opportunity to help shape the design of this project, the choice of fuels, and assist in developing various compliance strategies that would reflect our strategic goals.

But there are a few issues such as:

*Limited window of opportunity - we must act quickly

*Other prospective partners - other Florida utilities are expressing interest

*Cost to participate - the initial 2.5-6.4 Million investment

*Rate/Bill Impact - Not expected to lower bills in near future, however in the long run rates should be more stable

*Implication of the 1992 Charter Amendment - Participation would meet Charter requirements

[csmurphy8885]

The city commission voted to join in to the next phase (planning/land aq) but in a clever move have also directed the staff to use $250,000 on an outside consultant to assist us on developing a energy strategy with remewable resouces. Sounds like the best we can do today. I still think fsu/famu engeneers could invent electricity from nothing if they got some money for research. I hope people can see the plus side.

[Florida]

The magnet might allow us to work on creating new ways to generate electricity, but that is a long way off... as far as the consultant... well, I kinda don't like the thought of spending an extra $250,000 to pay a consultant to tell us what we already know... but its become common practice around here... mark my words... the consultant will tell us very little that we haven't already discussed.

[stjoe]

The magnet might allow us to work on creating new ways to generate electricity, but that is a long way off... as far as the consultant... well, I kinda don't like the thought of spending an extra $250,000 to pay a consultant to tell us what we already know... but its become common practice around here... mark my words... the consultant will tell us very little that we haven't already discussed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

spot on.

There are countries that have spent billions trying to solve this and the COT spends $250K for some consultant? Either a payoff for some politician or just really REALLY dump commission.

Very sad.

Personally, I am for Nuclear energy, but the evironmentalist (which I am one) will cut their nose off to spite their face and force those with common sense to settle for the next best thing...the coal planet.

Meanwhile, we waste money on some consultant who will do nothing.

[csmurphy8885]

People like me die unsatisfied with humans' ambition.

[Florida]

^please explain.

[csmurphy8885]

We lack Ambition... History shows us that we live in laziness.. E.G. We innovate to convinience. The convienience gives us more time to contemplate how hard life is... then we make more innovations. But at some point, we forget what things really need to be improved on, and somehow we lack the drive to solve the problems they are causing. It is what Dali called the True Human Condition. we can program video games where you run around an entire state... we can build into the sky... We can operate a home from the other side of the world... The Sun gave us all the energy in the begining... it should in the end. I think it is within the grasps... using micro cells is just the surface of the suns potential. I bet money that before 2015 there will be feasable solar options. Things happen fast these days. If there is money, there will be innovation... Period. (((stream of consciousness is sometimes beyond comprehension))))

[Florida]

^That was deep! WOW.

[Florida]

I don't know what the entire community is thinking, but from the vibes I'm getting, I think Tallahasseeans will be saying NO to coal.

Anybody get a similar feeling?

[monsoon]

Very sad.

Personally, I am for Nuclear energy, but the evironmentalist (which I am one) will cut their nose off to spite their face and force those with common sense to settle for the next best thing...the coal planet.

Just in the past week, Duke Energy has applied for a license to build a new nuclear powered generating plant somewhere in the Carolina Piedmont. It will be the first nuclear plant built in the USA in decades.

[jpl02]

I don't know what the entire community is thinking, but from the vibes I'm getting, I think Tallahasseeans will be saying NO to coal.

Anybody get a similar feeling?

I honestly do not know. Personally, I'm for COT's participation. Let's face it......we need to diversify our power supplies. We're not building the plant here, it's going to be built regardless of what Tally citizens think, so why not participate. If the plant was here, the NIMBYs would all come out, but that isn't the case.

Coal is not all bad. People automatically think of it as dirty and sooty and everything. Yes, it will impact the environment. But, it's impact will (hopefully) be minimal, and as far as the benefits it produces, it will outweight the negatives.

I can officially tell you that Leon County has no stand on the issue. One of my professors is the assistant county administrator here, and he says the county has no stand on the issue.

[Florida]

I honestly do not know. Personally, I'm for COT's participation. Let's face it......we need to diversify our power supplies. We're not building the plant here, it's going to be built regardless of what Tally citizens think, so why not participate. If the plant was here, the NIMBYs would all come out, but that isn't the case.

Coal is not all bad. People automatically think of it as dirty and sooty and everything. Yes, it will impact the environment. But, it's impact will (hopefully) be minimal, and as far as the benefits it produces, it will outweight the negatives.

I can officially tell you that Leon County has no stand on the issue. One of my professors is the assistant county administrator here, and he says the county has no stand on the issue.

I totally understand where you're coming from. In the beginning I felt the same thinking its going to be built anyway, what choice do I have? I don't like to be pushed into corners like this. The Federal Government plans to use Taylor County as a bombing range also... should Tallahassee somehow purchase a share in that too? Just a question I'd throw at the city for basically saying its going to be built wether we like it or not.

There are tons of things we could do with $400 Million dollars. I'd take the Nuke plant Metro M. says duke power wants to build long before I'd take this. I don't see coal as dirty technology, but no one can predict how much it will cost us to generate power. The plant won't be operational for at least 8 years, so what do we do in the interim, we would have already tied up $400 Million on this project, of which we only own 20%. Our interest could be overruled by the other 80% and our participation in the project would be pointless.

I personally feel if it's going to be built, let them build it. But Tallahassee can do better. I think we should start by using the $400 Million to offer incentives for our residents to install solar panels on roof tops the way they are doing up north. The savings are incredible both to the pocket and the resources. We need to study this issue longer before being forced into a decision.

I respect our city commission on most of their indeavors, but this measure I can't support, nor vote to allow them to consider.

[DaiDreamer5]

Nuclear power by far in the best option when it comes to energy right now. I know Nuclear waste is not the nicest thing to have around, but I think eventually (with some research) we could find a use for it, unlike air pollution. You can't pack coal dust into a train car and put it somewhere till we figure out what we can do with it.

However, nuclear power has a bad rep from incidents like Three Mile Island and Chernoybl. The plants themselves are also expensive to start up.

Eventually what I would like to see happen is some sort of solar home based power where you have solar panels on the roof of your house to collect energy. When you have too much, then you sell it back to the city, when you need more, you buy electricity from the city. I know it won't solve all of our problems, but it would require less electric plants and be cheaper long term for everyone involved.

Frankly, I really don't know where I stand on the Coal plant deal. I would like the city to look into alternative energy sources (I think they should have given the money to FSU or Famu to research this problem.), but at the same time, if it is being built, we might as well throw in our two cents (or millions in this case).

[Florida]

Then my only question to the city would be... why would you give me a Vote if whats going to happen is going to happen?

[monsoon]

Most likely the plant in Fla won't be nuclear as they cost much more than the amounts being discussed here. Duke's McGuire Nuclear facility cost $2.5B in 1980s money. They also generate a lot more power as well.

[Florida]

I'd partner up on one of those plants!

[Florida]

Sorry about the one liner before... my boss was coming up and I had to wrap it up. What I mean to say is, we, The City of Tallahassee, are spending $400,000,000.00+ for our portion of the plant. That is 20% or 1/5. Now multiply that 400 Million x 5 and you get 2 Billion which is not far from the $2.5 Billion Metro M reports will be spent on the Nuclear plant that dishes out a grand amout of energy...

... which would you prefer to spend your $400,000,000.00+ on?

[bobliocatt]

Btw, guys plans are underway for a new nuclear power plant in Florida, as we speak.

Due to rising conventional fuel costs, Progress Energy is proposing to build a nuclear plant in Central Florida. So far potential sites have been narrowed down to rural Polk, Seminole, Osceola and Highlands counties. A site should be selected by next month and the plant could be up and running by 2015.

http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:T0YTw...ear+plant&hl=en

[stjoe]

I don't know what the entire community is thinking, but from the vibes I'm getting, I think Tallahasseeans will be saying NO to coal.

Anybody get a similar feeling?

I agree....of course those folks will be paying $800 utility bills before you know it and they will be beotching about it to no end.

I just voted yes for the coal plant.

I just wish I had the option of voting for a nuclear plant and I would of gone for that first.

[Florida]

I'm wondering... if this measure fails, and we don't support the Coal plant, if they'd consider a partnership for a Nuclear plant.

I have my thoughts about this...

[Florida]

Coal Vote Could Cost us a Pro-Growth Commission

On Feb. 4, 1992, Tallahassee voters - upset over a City Hall proposal to build a coal plant - took their anger out on a well-respected, two-term city commissioner who was outspoken in support of coal. Jack McLean narrowly lost his City Commission seat to political newcomer Penny Herman, who built her campaign around the incumbent's strong support for a proposed $300million coal plant in western Leon County.

All but one of our city commissioners voted Yes to go ahead with the effort to join the North Florida Power Project. Commissioner Katz was the lone ranger. Recently elected to the City Commission, commissioner Katz is the second most experienced person on the dias, however years apart from the seasoned commission veteran Debbie Lightsey, a supporter of the coal plant, and a commissioner up for re-election next year. Katz was appointed to the city commission after the passing of Commissioner Billings around the year 2000.

A yes victory could boost the 4 members of the commission in favor of the measure, a no vote could mean some sweeping changes at city hall in the upcoming years. Mayor Marks is also up for re-election next year.

Article

[Florida]

Coal, Natural Gas, and your Checkbook

Plant supporters say coal will save the city money. But opponents say the city will pay in other ways.

Article

[cityboy05]

If I could vote I would vote yes it's most likely going to be built anyway and we can't just rely on natural gas for our energy.

[Florida]

Well I'm voting a strong No on this.

Yes it is going to be built in Perry, but that doesn't mean we need to spend our $400 million on it.

Many people don't know the Federal Governrment has plans to use Taylor County as a bombing range also... maybe we ought to stick our nose into that aswell.

I believe we haven't explored every avenue. Yesterday I picked up a copy of the Apalachee Tourtise Newspaper and read a great article on this measure. The point was, many people are saying no, but here are reasons why we should. Among these reasons was the uncertainty of Coal resources and prices in the future once natural gas, and other oil based alternitives are capped and more and more people turn to coal. Even our Assistant City Manager over Utilities says he can't predict what the future may hold in terms of actual costs us, the tax payers and the utility customers.

On top of this, Tallahassee and Leon County was rated by a well respected energy publication as being one fo the top locations in the southeast for a Biomass plant because of our rich supply of resources in the area. Biomass would emit fewer toxins to the environment and would be a renewable resource and its use would generate energy sufficent for our future needs.

Then there's the option of locating mini-plants near high use areas, this alternative could be over 80% efficent and save an incredible amount of resources and money.

Further, the option of upgrading Purdom Unit 8 at Saint Marks or Hopkins with the latest model, more efficent turbine technology would not only cost a fraction of what it would cost us to join the NFPP, but it would also generate more electricty for this community.

I've got the facts and figures in the news paper article at home. When I get there I'll post them with some charts I plan to make using excel (just for practice with my MIS stuff).

But this is why I'm voting No.... because I refuse to go with the first available alternative.

[stjoe]

" because I refuse to go with the first available alternative."

Try ONLY alternative.

If Tally votes no, I'll bet you $1,000 that you will be screaming about your utility bills in 5 years (if not already). The people voting no are just playing ostrich. Ideals are a great thing, but there are NO real alternatives right now.

You have a whole website devote to Tally....guess what, Tally will die if our energy options stay as they are. If gas prices continue to go up at this pace....Tally will be at a disadavantage with places like Austin (which gets 80% of it's energy from Coal AND Nuclear), etc. having a diversification (a real one, not pipe dreams like windmills) of energy sources.

Being one diminsional is not something to fight for. I said before....I would of gone for Nuclear...but the same people that have fought coal killed Nuclear optoins long ago. Nuclear is the BEST alternative...by far...but the environmentals fight propoganda wars instead of rational debates.

Tally will wind up taxing the hell out of middle & upper class property owners to subsidize out of control utility bills for students and lower income folks..... and you will see middle & upper class leave. Tally will become and urban slum before you know it. You have to be realistic about energy...folks talk a game but still have a washer, dryer, TV, refrigerator, Stereo, computer, etc, etc etc.