Tallahassee: Roads

[gatoremt]

What are you saying my Confederate Money is no longer any good? I would like to see some toll roads or something up here to GET TRAFFIC MOVING. But I agree if we built a big road you would have them full of people that can't drive.

[seminole]

What are you saying my Confederate Money is no longer any good? I would like to see some toll roads or something up here to GET TRAFFIC MOVING. But I agree if we built a big road you would have them full of people that can't drive.

I'll take luck to see "them" full at all. I'm all about progress but I can't even think of a suitable route "through the city" to place a N-S expressway. Any ideas?

[Florida]

If you don't like it here, fill up your car with other carpetbaggers and head back to Philladelphia or Chicago or Detroit or wherever you think life is so much better. Geesh.

Here is the mentality that has kept Tallahassee from growing. Someone comes in with a fresh Idea and the established fight for status-quo. This is not a personal attack on Ghost, this is merely a highlight of a comment you've made that perfectly reflects what I hear when I often debate longtime-locals about Tallahassee's growth and changes.

[jpl02]

I'll take luck to see "them" full at all. I'm all about progress but I can't even think of a suitable route "through the city" to place a N-S expressway. Any ideas?

There's no route! Why we desperately need a N-S expressway, the idea is DOA. There's no right of way, and building one would take a helluva lot of businesses and residences.

The only thing I can imagine doing is upgrading Monroe Street to a semi-freeway status.........overpasses and interchanges at certain places (Tharpe, Bradford, John Knox/Monticello). That would also require the taking of properties. I'm also thinking of creating a raised, landscaped median along Monroe with very limited cuts (to prevent turning traffic). Frontage roads a la Apalachee Parkway would be nice, but again, ROW does not exist.

Meridian Road is the ideal route of a north-south freeway, but I must go, as I hear those NIMBYs knocking at my door.

[psycuda]

Basically it's a way for St. Joe to sell off some land, and boost their revenues in a time when the housing market is getting soft. St. Joe get's 46 Million tax dollars (which clears out the DOT land budget and then some), and we (taxpayers) get land for some vague future road project that hasn't even been through preliminary planning yet. In the Fineout piece in the Herald, the close ties between St. Joe and the Bush admin were pointed out. This includes St. Joe owning a 50% stake in a company owned by the Governor's former business partner. According to the Herald article, the land being purchased isn't even in the right place for the new road.

If the state is buying swamp land, I might be able to make them a sweet deal. Is there any interest in a toll road from Newport to Crawfordville?

In answer to the first part of your question, this will not happen for another 20 or so years, (2025-2030), so the market will have gone through a couple of cycles by the time this opens. Second, someone (maybe the state/St Joe) is looking to build a toll road paralell to 98 (or turn 98 into a toll road) running from Newport to points far far west of here (Destin or further) around the same period, so selling your land (depending on location) might be possible)

[gatoremt]

I'll take luck to see "them" full at all. I'm all about progress but I can't even think of a suitable route "through the city" to place a N-S expressway. Any ideas?

I know there is no way to build a N-S express way in Tally. No where to put it.

[ghostOFtheSuwanee]

I know there is no way to build a N-S express way in Tally. No where to put it.

I don't know. I once thought that an expressway between Smitty's Club, the Pearl Oyster Bar, Outzes and Posey's would be a very good thing.

[gatoremt]

I don't know. I once thought that an expressway between Smitty's Club, the Pearl Oyster Bar, Outzes and Posey's would be a very good thing.

Never heard of those places

[ghostOFtheSuwanee]

Never heard of those places

Smitty's was a roadhouse on Bannerman Road and the site of some excellent music. The Pearl is also sadly gone. It was just south of Apalachee on the truck route. Outzes is still rocking, rebuilt after a fire. It's a sort of Harley meets swamprat bluegrass and beer kind of place with some delish treats. Posey's use to be the smoked mullet mecca at the end of the road in St. Marks. The common demonanator is cheap beer.

[Florida]

N-S expressway may look impossible through Tallahassee, but not impossible for LEON county. I think possibilities exist outside of capital circle. We should plan for this on the east side before Welaunee and all of the other major housing communities pop up.

[poonther]

I don't know. I once thought that an expressway between Smitty's Club, the Pearl Oyster Bar, Outzes and Posey's would be a very good thing.

One of the things constant in life is change.

[BHCav]

I know there is no way to build a N-S express way in Tally. No where to put it.

It's funny how Austin, Tx can complete projects like this, yet we are compltetely inept.

[jpl02]

It's funny how Austin, Tx can complete projects like this, yet we are compltetely inept.

What exactly do you mean by this?

[gatoremt]

It's funny how Austin, Tx can complete projects like this, yet we are compltetely inept.

I just dont see the state or feds giving that kinda money to built a N-S express way in Tally. They would have to build it in the air that would cost A LOT OF $$$$$.

[BHCav]

What exactly do you mean by this?

Go there and you'll see what I mean. I didn't mean ineptness as in physically unable, rather inept in terms of ESP (economically, socially, politically). Many cities that are far more dense than Tallahassee complete projects of this nature. Copperas Cove, Tx, which is not quite as dense as Tally but also with less space, is currently inserting a E-W corridor through their small community.

Problem: Traffic continues to worsen, which in turn leads to a less desirable living evironment and businesses unwilling to move to a downtown that lacks infrastrucure.

Local Salution: What problem?! Keep Tally Tiny!

[jpl02]

Go there and you'll see what I mean. I didn't mean ineptness as in physically unable, rather inept in terms of ESP (economically, socially, politically). Many cities that are far more dense than Tallahassee complete projects of this nature. Copperas Cove, Tx, which is not quite as dense as Tally but also with less space, is currently inserting a E-W corridor through their small community.

Problem: Traffic continues to worsen, which in turn leads to a less desirable living evironment and businesses unwilling to move to a downtown that lacks infrastrucure.

Local Salution: What problem?! Keep Tally Tiny!

Austin is not a fair comparison. Their north-south freeways (I-35 and the Mo-Pac) are older and were built at a time when Austin was much smaller and the ROW was available; I-35 mostly built in the 1950s, the Mo-Pac in the 70s. Austin has had plenty of freeways that were cancelled or delayed. Granted, they have built some new freeways as of late, but consider the political environment: Texas loves freeways. Florida, as a whole, does not like building new freeways, nor do they like "free" freeways. Look at how long it has taken to complete I-295 in Jacksonville.......I don't hear people saying that Jacksonville is anti-growth or inept.

This is not an attack on you, but you have to realize it's much, much more than Tallahasseeans that are the reason why we don't have better roads.

[BHCav]

Austin is not a fair comparison. Their north-south freeways (I-35 and the Mo-Pac) are older and were built at a time when Austin was much smaller and the ROW was available; I-35 mostly built in the 1950s, the Mo-Pac in the 70s. Austin has had plenty of freeways that were cancelled or delayed. Granted, they have built some new freeways as of late, but consider the political environment: Texas loves freeways. Florida, as a whole, does not like building new freeways, nor do they like "free" freeways. Look at how long it has taken to complete I-295 in Jacksonville.......I don't hear people saying that Jacksonville is anti-growth or inept.

This is not an attack on you, but you have to realize it's much, much more than Tallahasseeans that are the reason why we don't have better roads.

I wasn't talking about I-35, but other than that I think we are saying the same thing. That's why I brought up ESP. Not saying we should be Texas wanna-bes in this aspect, but we need to learn to embrass progressive ideas in more of the same manner they do. Hell, even Evansville, IN has a N-S freeway through town.

Somethings gotta give. Either A) Tally will stop growing, or B) we are going to begin having serious congestion problems in the not-so-far-off future. Traffic is already bad for a city this size.

[Florida]

Austin is not a fair comparison. Their north-south freeways (I-35 and the Mo-Pac) are older and were built at a time when Austin was much smaller and the ROW was available; I-35 mostly built in the 1950s, the Mo-Pac in the 70s. Austin has had plenty of freeways that were cancelled or delayed. Granted, they have built some new freeways as of late, but consider the political environment: Texas loves freeways. Florida, as a whole, does not like building new freeways, nor do they like "free" freeways. Look at how long it has taken to complete I-295 in Jacksonville.......I don't hear people saying that Jacksonville is anti-growth or inept.

This is not an attack on you, but you have to realize it's much, much more than Tallahasseeans that are the reason why we don't have better roads.

Well spoken perspetive. You have a tremendous amount of credibility on this issue. And I agree with you for stating its not the sole fault of the people for the failure of our state goverment of build our roads.

[Go Gators]

N-S expressway may look impossible through Tallahassee, but not impossible for LEON county. I think possibilities exist outside of capital circle. We should plan for this on the east side before Welaunee and all of the other major housing communities pop up.

Would this really solve any problems though?

[seminole]

Would this really solve any problems though?

I don't see how. Tallahassee with its narrow streets and very limited roadways just has to do something more creative to solve it's transportation issue as downtown becomes more dense. Let's see.....how bout developing parking facilities near the interstate and routing a mass transit system (i.e. monorails and raised light rail systems) from the parking centers to major population centers near downtown and other focal points in the city.

This idea is very creative and would make a major statement about our city. Bus transportation is fine within the city but a raised mass transit system (above the roadways) would be really cool. Sweet idea huh?

[BHCav]

And I agree with you for stating its not the sole fault of the people for the failure of our state goverment of build our roads.

Local citizens do not demand that the traffic problem is solved and don't want to harm Tally's percieved "charm" by adding elevated expressways, hence social obsticle. Local politicians do not have pressure to fight the state for such projects, hence political obsticle. I could have swore I mentioned this twice already.

No, it's not all the locals fault, but you have to be wearing blinds if you think it's not the primarily reason instrastruce such as a N-S expressway will never exist here.

I don't see how. Tallahassee with its narrow streets and very limited roadways just has to do something more creative to solve it's transportation issue as downtown becomes more dense. Let's see.....how bout developing parking facilities near the interstate and routing a mass transit system (i.e. monorails and raised light rail systems) from the parking centers to major population centers near downtown and other focal points in the city.

This idea is very creative and would make a major statement about our city. Bus transportation is fine within the city but a raised mass transit system (above the roadways) would be really cool. Sweet idea huh?

Awesome idea? Yes

Fiscally possible? No

[seminole]

Local citizens do not demand that the traffic problem is solved and don't want to harm Tally's percieved "charm" by adding elevated expressways, hence social obsticle. Local politicians do not have pressure to fight the state for such projects, hence political obsticle. I could have swore I mentioned this twice already.

No, it's not all the locals fault, but you have to be wearing blinds if you think it's not the primarily reason instrastruce such as a N-S expressway will never exist here.

Awesome idea? Yes

Fiscally possible? No

Yeah, but I'm not saying to do this tomorrow. Perhaps in the future Tallahassee can do a feasibility study (this time for something that really matters) of placing a monorail in the median of Monroe or Appalachee Pwy versus spending millions of dollars just to purchase ROW for an expressway. I would love to see a N-S expressway, but I'll rather spend the extra millions on some more innovative. Everyone is hopping on the idea (pun intended) of new buses but eventually the roadways will be too limited to handle them also.

[psycuda]

Go there and you'll see what I mean. I didn't mean ineptness as in physically unable, rather inept in terms of ESP (economically, socially, politically). Many cities that are far more dense than Tallahassee complete projects of this nature. Copperas Cove, Tx, which is not quite as dense as Tally but also with less space, is currently inserting a E-W corridor through their small community.

Problem: Traffic continues to worsen, which in turn leads to a less desirable living evironment and businesses unwilling to move to a downtown that lacks infrastrucure.

Local Salution: What problem?! Keep Tally Tiny!

Currently!!! They were talking about this thing 12 years ago when I was stationed at Fort Hood (This should give you an idea of how long it would take to make this happen.

[BHCav]

Currently!!! They were talking about this thing 12 years ago when I was stationed at Fort Hood (This should give you an idea of how long it would take to make this happen.

What unit where you in at Hood? I was in the Cav, hence user name.

Seminole, the only thing I question is the willingness of the citizens to use what you propose. IMO it would have to get big time subsidies to break even.

[ghostOFtheSuwanee]

Yeah, but I'm not saying to do this tomorrow. Perhaps in the future Tallahassee can do a feasibility study (this time for something that really matters) of placing a monorail in the median of Monroe or Appalachee Pwy versus spending millions of dollars just to purchase ROW for an expressway. I would love to see a N-S expressway, but I'll rather spend the extra millions on some more innovative. Everyone is hopping on the idea (pun intended) of new buses but eventually the roadways will be too limited to handle them also.

Not necessarily. New roads built with state money have to conform to the "green book" standards. These include buying enough ROW to be able to support transit. Don't you remember when Commissioner Grippa was fussing about having to buy extra ROW for future transit use when T-ville road was being updated a few years ago? I believe his exact words were "No one in Killearn will ever ride a bus."