U.S. 17 in between Beaufort and Charleston

[Charleston native]

It's not everyday that I agree with P & C's editorials, but this one submitted today is on par for my opinions of Colleton County's participation in the US 17 widening project. I do disagree with the need to establish the buffers, because the county already has strict zoning to preserve the ACE Basin. So I see why the county has a problem with DOT's stance, but the council should try to sell its position by demonstrating how their zoning laws will prevent any development from encroaching onto the newly widened highway. As far as helping with the financial burden, I think the amount they need to furnish needs to be reduced.

Given the number of deaths on U.S. 17, it is unlikely that DOT would opt for improvements to S.C. 64, instead of U.S. 17. If council wants to take a parochial view, it should think about the opportunities for tourism that an improved U.S. 17 could bring to its coastal area...DOT should demonstrate greater commitment to a design plan for U.S. 17 that is compatible with the ACE Basin...Meanwhile, Colleton County Council should recognize that the state is unlikely to divert its attention from its long-planned improvement of a highway (U.S. 17) which has been described as one of the nation's most dangerous, for a project (S.C. 64) that is largely viewed as an encouragement to economic development.

U.S. 17 project needs commitment

[Jerseyman4]

Unbelievable...some more SC idiocy at its finest. Because of the insistence of condemning property owners' land to have these buffers from the DOT, the Colleton County Council has suggested to widen SC 64 which is a highway that goes to Walterboro. They actually adopted a resolution asking the state Department of Transportation to consider this option.

Are they trying to complicate things?! This same logic was proposed the previous time US 17 was considered for widening to 4 lanes. It's like history repeats itself!!

[Charleston native]

Widening SC 64 according to what im looking at here , would increase the time travel getting onto I-95 and coming from I-95 south getting onto SC 64. If SC 64 sees widening and not US 17 southwest of the juncture, i would find this very political...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

After looking at the map you provided, the route to take if SC 64 was widened is worse than I thought! I agree; if US 17 gets ignored and 64 gets the nod, the decision would definitely be political. I understand the city of Walterboro would like to have better exposure and economic development, but the route to get to I-95 would not make sense. For southbound trucks and travelers, SC 64 actually takes them in a northernly direction before it gets to I-95, and I think we can all I agree that this would be redundant and illogical. And then, northbound travelers to Charleston would still have to travel this unsafe section of US 17. I'm with you Jerseyman, it is time for the groundbreaking of widening US 17 to start now!

[Charleston native]

YES!! In the article link below, there is some great news in dealing with this project. The US 17 project is progressing forward! State Highway Commissioners accomplished major steps yesterday toward this project that has been talked about and planned for more than a decade but repeatedly set aside for financial reasons. The Commissioners approved the details of the project's design, which won't include the sought-after buffers (aww yeah! ), and they will pursue State Infrastructure Bank funds to make the financial contributions.

There is one hiccup though: Colleton County Council, of course. They do not not support contributing any money toward the highway project. IMO, this is completely stupid. They need to realize that this is a LOCAL project as well as the state. When Charleston got the new Cooper River Bridge, the county had to contribute money because it involved a huge local contigent, and this situation precisely applies to Colleton County. Hopefully these guys will be clued in, or they could be the stumbling block for this highway. All in all, this still is great news...momentum for this project to get started is really gaining.

[url="http://www.charleston.net/stories/?newsID=40550

[MikesLogic]

Looks like Colleton County has decided to divy up some cash toward the project. Though it is a small amount it's good to see they are supporting the widening of their portion US 17.

Colleton County gives $200,000 to widen U.S. 17

[Charleston native]

This is excellent news, and I'm becoming further encouraged that this project will finally be done. Even though Colleton County is not contributing the full amount DOT wants, I think any portion to get the loan approved is just fine. I think this is showing that Colleton County doesn't want this necessary project canceled again.

[Charleston native]

It seems that when a project moves forward, it takes 2 steps forward and 1.5 steps back, especially in this state. The US 17 project is trying to get underway, yet we now have history buffs who are hesitant to endorse the project. In the article link below, DOT gave plans to build a retaining wall to reduce the impact on historical and environmental areas. Pay special attention to Jeff Grigg, who wants the project scaled back.

Why do some of these people feel we have to preserve every footprint, ditch, and tree in preserving historical areas? I'm all for preserving history, but after reading this article, it's like they need to preserve every nook and cranny in the area.

History buffs, state officials seek US 17 solutions

[Spartan]

That is an interesting situation. You have a historic site, which could just be built around, but then the environmentalists won't let you take down trees to route around the historic site.

I am inclined to let the historic site stay. Trees will grow back, history will get destroyed.

[krazeeboi]

I think it's possible to preserve as much history as possible while still going through with this project. I find the history of the site very intriguing and of special interest to me as an African American. I don't think it's an "either/or" situation, but can definitely be a "both/and" situation. I don't think it's worth preserving every nook and cranny at the expense of increased mortality rates on that road. I think it would be cool to name that section of the road in honor of someone who was significant in that event.

It's interesting to see a native Charlestonian talk down on preserving history. Charleston_native, I'm just kidding; I understand where you're coming from.

[Charleston native]

I think it's possible to preserve as much history as possible while still going through with this project. I find the history of the site very intriguing and of special interest to me as an African American. I don't think it's an "either/or" situation, but can definitely be a "both/and" situation. I don't think it's worth preserving every nook and cranny at the expense of increased mortality rates on that road. I think it would be cool to name that section of the road in honor of someone who was significant in that event.

It's interesting to see a native Charlestonian talk down on preserving history. Charleston_native, I'm just kidding; I understand where you're coming from.

LOL, thanks Krazee! I know, I'm a rare breed considering where I grew up. However, I just think that excessive preservation severely slows progress rather than making an area "better". This highway is dangerous, and the need for change is there. Yet, no matter how dangerous the situation, some of these preservationists are choosing to hinder a project which will save lives. I mean, they're wanting to move the highway for some old ditches. I think that needs to be sacrificed if a valuable highway project is going to improve safety. Especially if the impact is minimal: the DOT said that out of the 83 archaeological sites found, only 13 would be sacrificed. Quite a small price to pay in the grand scheme of things...the sites will still have a huge majority that could be preserved.

[GvilleSC]

I have found this thread interesting to follow. What exactly is at this site that all the hoopla is over? I'm not sure where I stand yet, but we always use this road going to the beach...

[Jerseyman4]

I have found this thread interesting to follow. What exactly is at this site that all the hoopla is over? I'm not sure where I stand yet, but we always use this road going to the beach...

From my understanding of all of this, US 17 traverses through wetlands in Colleton County that is infuriating people of the wetland destruction of the four lane widening of US 17. Its not pre-1975 where construction through wetlands were careless and did not care about them at all by finding them worthless. Todays road construction must be enviromentally sensitive as possible which is mandated by law.

[Charleston native]

From my understanding of all of this, US 17 traverses through wetlands in Colleton County that is infuriating people of the wetland destruction of the four lane widening of US 17. Its not pre-1975 where construction through wetlands were careless and did not care about them at all by finding them worthless. Todays road construction must be enviromentally sensitive as possible which is mandated by law.

Well, the big deal with this part of the highway primarily is that over 40 people have died in the past 3 years on this stretch of it. The stretch from Beaufort to the border of Charleston County has been 2 lanes for many years, and it is the only part of US 17 in SC that is 2 lanes. It is a 4-lane highway going into Charleston to MB and on to NC, and it is 4 lanes from Beaufort to Savannah. Some of the turns there are treacherous, and with US 17 being the only southern route from I-95 to Charleston, it is heavily traveled.

IMO, wetlands need to take a backseat to people's lives. As well as some historical relics, considering that widening the highway will have minimal impact. I think the conservationists are afraid that widening the area will spur commercial development...but Colleton County has specifically reserved this area for conservation, so I don't think there will be any building of homes are shopping centers. Bottom line, widening this part of US 17 will unclog traffic and create a safer highway to get to I-95.

[GvilleSC]

Ahhhh, well I see... And there's no contest, build the freakin road!

[Charleston native]

F---ing unbelieveable!! These conservationists are starting to take this project back in time to 1994 when it got canceled!!!! According to these frickin environmental groups, plans to widen this deadly stretch of US 17 to four lanes are incomplete and risk being subject to an environmental impact study that could delay the project up to three years. A letter was sent to the DOT by none other than the Coastal Conservation League and the Southern Environmental Law Center saying an environmental assessment by the department doesn't answer several environmental and safety concerns. They say the department's recent decision to not require controversial, 100-foot restricted access buffers raises questions about safety and how many acres of wetlands will be filled.

Wilson Elgin, project manager for the DOT, said the agency is going to continue with the plan without buffers and that it will probably be up to the federal highway administration to decide whether the environmental assessment is adequate. Well, if that's all that is needed, then Dana Beach can suck it up. Colleton County officials have said that they have very strict zoning on the land around US 17 in addition to conservation easements that are part of the ACE Basin. This should be enough for these f---ing groups!!!

I think this quote says it all for me:

David Gasque, whose 20-year-old son Cooper died on the road in January 2004, said he sees the letter as a stalling tactic so that the environmental groups can control development along the road.

He said the groups should have stepped back and allowed the process to run its course.

"We're right back where we were in 1993," he said. "At least we know where everybody stands. If the road is stopped now, everyone will have a clear understanding of who and what stopped it."

[url="http://www.charleston.net/stories/?newsID=57669

[GSP Tiger]

Do these conservationists have other productive things to do? I think serveral enviromental impact studies were recently completed, and the answers are there. They need to deal with the facts and let the road be widened.

[Charleston native]

Absolutely correct, BoDragon! The studies have already been done. Repeatedly, I might add. They actually have several environmental impact studies for the same area of road. These conservationists are not serving the interest of the public. They have even given the same reasons for stalling and delaying the last leg of Charleston's Mark Clark Expressway (I-526). Countless studies have been done for that road as well. Maybe we all need to write these conservation groups and the SCDOT and tell them to quit stalling and widen the highway immediately.

[Charleston native]

Bumping this thread for more visibility and discussion...

[upstate29650]

If any of you have had a chance to drive 17 into Savannah, across the Savannah River causeway, you may have noticed a billboard erected by a prominent car dealer in Beaufort & Bluffton (who lives in Savannah), that says....

"Govenor Sanford, how many more people must die on this road before you do something?"

This portion of 17, which is very heavily traveled, is a 2 laned road that is literally crumbling. There re no real passing opportunities, and when you try it, you better get a move on, to avoid head on collisions.

This road is the main artery moving people from Jasper & Beaufort Cos into Savannah, where those residents shop, go to medical facilities, and otherwise conduct business, as well as the thriving tourist trade between Savannah-Hilton Head-Beaufort. It definately needs to be brought up to standard, possibly interstate standards, as it is once you cross into Georgia.

Dare I say it....maybe this corridor is low on SCDOT's priority list because it's viewed as the corridor that allows dollars to flow out of that part of the state & into Savannah? Hmmm...

[Spartan]

I gurantee you that Sanford and SCDOT have this stretch of road high on their priority lists becuase of the deaths there. The problem is that we have a weak governors office, and a suprisingly strong willed preservation/environmental group that is managing to hold things up. I keep seein gthe word 'delay' being thrown around, so that tells me that they WILL widen the road, its just a matter of when.

[GSP Tiger]

I vaguely remember transversing this road nearly six years ago. I think there was a four lane segment down in Georgia before I-95 came to fruition. It narrows to the dangerous two lanes when you cross over into South Carolina. With increasing volumes of traffic and more unfortunate deaths along this route, the fact that a direct four lane route from Charleston to Savannah cannot be ignored.

Assuming Sanford may not do anything about this, do any other gubernatorial candidates support widening this road?

[Charleston native]

I have no idea about that. However, I don't think I can put most of the blame on Sanford. The Coastal Conservation League, other environmental groups, and Colleton County officials have been inept buffoons in getting this project started. They are truly the ones to blame for the constant procrastination of this project. Many environmentalists including the CCL have been demanding for another impact study where there have been countless studies done already. They have been the ultimate roadblocks (no pun intended) in getting construction to begin.

Colleton County has mismanaged the county portion of funding as well as being slow and hesitant in giving the OK for the SCDOT. The leaders have also been unwilling to negotiate the problem mentioned earlier in this thread with having 100-foot buffers for the highway. They claim there are zoning laws in place to prohibit excessive development along the highway, but I think they have not communicated these zonings clearly to all authorities.

The governor position in this state is truly weak. If there were hangups like this in FL or TX on a road where people were losing their lives consistently, the governors in those states would put the hammer down and get the road widened within 6 months!

[digital_sandlapper]

If any of you have had a chance to drive 17 into Savannah, across the Savannah River causeway, you may have noticed a billboard erected by a prominent car dealer in Beaufort & Bluffton (who lives in Savannah), that says....

"Govenor Sanford, how many more people must die on this road before you do something?"

This portion of 17, which is very heavily traveled, is a 2 laned road that is literally crumbling. There re no real passing opportunities, and when you try it, you better get a move on, to avoid head on collisions.

This road is the main artery moving people from Jasper & Beaufort Cos into Savannah, where those residents shop, go to medical facilities, and otherwise conduct business, as well as the thriving tourist trade between Savannah-Hilton Head-Beaufort. It definately needs to be brought up to standard, possibly interstate standards, as it is once you cross into Georgia.

Dare I say it....maybe this corridor is low on SCDOT's priority list because it's viewed as the corridor that allows dollars to flow out of that part of the state & into Savannah? Hmmm...

Hello All, I'm a "newbie" who shares your love of this great state of ours, and seeing it progress smartly into a prosperous future.

The portion of U.S. 17 that is being widened between Jacksonboro and Garden Corner is needed, but it is not the only portion in S.C. needing it. The above stretch, only a few miles, is a disgrace as well as exceedingly unsafe. The auto dealer who paid for the billboard, O. C. Welch, almost lost his life and the life of his son on this highway (among many others who weren't so lucky). It is THE main shortcut corridor between Savannah and HHI, as well as the route Savannah residents take when travelling to Columbia, etc. The traffic volume here is, to say the least, quite intense.

A widening of this road to at least 4 lanes could be a raised highway to protect the marsh and wildlife--not to mention human life. A happy fringe benefit would be the demolition of all "businesses" along this route that has been an embarrassment to me as a sandlapper for years. If you have travelled the road, you know what I'm referring to . . . Let's just say it is not a very sophisticated or historical introduction to our state, and ironic given that the highway leads to the urbane, progressive communities of HHI and Beaufort! I have had a time convincing my Georgia friends that S.C. is NOT some toothless hick state, despite what they see here. To make up for loss of business to this poor part of Jasper County, how about building a respectible, new shopping center near the Hardeeville Speedway? This could also attract I-95 travellers.

On that note, has anyone heard any more about the Butterfly House that was supposed to be built along 17 near Hardeeville? Must've fallen through. Too bad, it needs the economic boost here.

Sorry to ramble so . . just glad to be part of this string, and UP in general!

[krazeeboi]

Welcome to the forum. We look forward to your contributions.

[Jerseyman4]

Welcome to UP!

Ive said in many posts; US 17 really needs to be widened. The traffic volumes most of the time are too high for the two lane US 17.