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RestedTraveler

West Virginia Sub Forum?

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Being a native of West Virginia, I certainly realize that there isn't a lot in the way of Urban Development going on there.

Still, Huntington, Charleston, Morgantown, Beckley, Princeton, Wheeling, Wierton, Fairmont, Clarksburg, Charles Town, and Parkersburg all have the POTENTIAL for thriving urbanism...especially Huntington, Charleston, and the relatively affordable Washington, DC bedroom community of Charles Town.

For instance, I'll refer to that with which I am most familiar: Huntington. With the exception of perhaps Pullman Square and some developments around Marshall University in Huntington, there hasn't been a lot of development since the days of Collis P. Huntington himself. The city has a lot of character and charm underneath all that dust and behind those flood walls. It's just waiting for people to recognize its beauty and begin restoring the city to what it once was (well before even my time).

However, if there were to ever be a West Virginia Sub Forum, where would it fit? Is it a Southern State (it is, after all, South of the Mason-Dixon Line)?? Is it a Northeastern State (Virginia, geographically South of West Virginia, is included in the NorthEast USA Sub Forum)??

Is there any interest in having such a Sub Forum? Would there be any support for it? I'm curious.

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I would say that it is Northeastern. It's north of Virginia, and would be the northernmost Southern state. Besides, it split from Virginia so it wouldn't be part of the South.

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Would West Virginia be considered among the mideastern United States? I think there are several states that could be group together for a Mideastern United States category.

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This would probably belong here in the Southeast forum, seeing as it is similar to Eastern Kentucky in Geography and climate.

I always thought of KY as a Midwest state, though.

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It may be a wierd idea, but would it be wise to reorganize the states? There's clearly a vast difference from Texas and Oklahoma to the Carolinas. Virginia, DC, Maryland, and Delaware are more mid-Atlantic coast states. Alambama, Louisiana, Mississippi, and Tennessee are more deep south states. Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, and South Carolina are your southern Atlantic coast states. Texas is probably more identified with southwestern United States, and Arkansas and Ohlahoma are more of the midwest states.

Kentucky I would consider more an Ohio River Valley state.

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It may be a wierd idea, but would it be wise to reorganize the states?  There's clearly a vast difference from Texas and Oklahoma to the Carolinas.  Virginia, DC, Maryland, and Delaware are more mid-Atlantic coast states.  Alambama, Louisiana, Mississippi, and Tennessee are more deep south states.  Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, and South Carolina are your southern Atlantic coast states.  Texas is probably more identified with southwestern United States, and Arkansas and Ohlahoma are more of the midwest states.

Kentucky I would consider more an Ohio River Valley state.

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Oklahoma seems more like a USA West State to me. Texas seems to belong here more, but would probably be right at home, and generate much needed activity in the USA West forum.

Arkansas, actually is identified as a Southern State by most state guides that I read.

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It may be a wierd idea, but would it be wise to reorganize the states?  There's clearly a vast difference from Texas and Oklahoma to the Carolinas.  Virginia, DC, Maryland, and Delaware are more mid-Atlantic coast states.  Alambama, Louisiana, Mississippi, and Tennessee are more deep south states.  Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, and South Carolina are your southern Atlantic coast states.  Texas is probably more identified with southwestern United States, and Arkansas and Ohlahoma are more of the midwest states.

Kentucky I would consider more an Ohio River Valley state.

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Arkansas is defined as a southern state. It may not be be classified as the 'deep south' , although southeast Arkansas I think would fit into the 'deep south'. But the only section of the state that might fit into a midwest type classification are the two northwest counties that make up Fayetteville-Springdale-Rogers-Bentonville metro.

West Texas has more of a southwest culture, but east Texas does fit more into the south. Maybe not the 'deep south' but also not southwest.

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Are you kidding me! :blink: Your classification of my state of Arkansas is ignorant. I've lived here all my life, and to call it Midwest in any way is ludicrous! I have never seen it considered anything but Southern, yet you're telling us what it is. The residents of this fine state are proud Southerners, talk Southern, eat Southern, have R.E. Lee Day as a state holiday, etc. Oh yeah, we're also the fourth leading producer in a staple crop in these parts -- cotton. You might be surprised to know that our capital, Little Rock, is further South than your area of Greenville.

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In all fairness to BoDragon, I do believe that the context of his groupings of the states was strictly geographical and not cultural. He specifically spoke of mid-Atlantic coastal, southern-Atlantic coastal, etc. Culturally, Arkansas may be Southern, but geographically, it can be a borderline-Southern state, whereas other states, such as the Carolinas, Georgia, Tennessee, Alabama, etc. are clearly Southern. Little Rock may be located further south than Greenville, but so is Phoenix--that hardly means that Arizona is Southern, culturally OR geographically. :)

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The organization of this forum is one of the more complicated discussions the staff has had here on UP and we have discussed many options for grouping together regions and have gone through several revisions in the almost 2 years we have been in operation. And we may change things again.

In regards to a West Virginia subforum, it is indeed possible but until we see at least a few posts from there, it probably isn't going to happen anytime soon.

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West Virginia is NE at the most. Sure it definetley has alot of southern traits but in all fairness it does have some northern traits too. I guess we could classify WV as a "bi-regional state." :lol: I also notice how prices get more expensive as you go into WV so that could classify it as a northern state. ^_^

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West Virginia (and Virginia) is definitely Southern culturally. It is a little farther north than the Deep South states, but this should not consign it to Yankee status. Really the main argument against it being Southern is that they sided with the North in the War of Northern Aggression (although not all of its people did). However, given the fact that the issues which surrounded that War have largely disappeared, I think it is fair to now call it (and VA and KY) Southern. I always thought it was absurd to have Virginia, the old capital state of the Confederacy, in the Northeast section on UP, by the way. This should be corrected.

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West Virginia is culturally Southern and should be included with the other Southern states. I agree with Riverside Gator that Virginia is a Southern state and should be in The Southern USA forum as well.

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West Virginia is culturally Southern and should be included with the other Southern states.  I agree with Riverside Gator that Virginia is a Southern state and should be in The Southern USA forum as well.

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These have all been very interesting opinions.

The last one above falls in line with my own thinking; however, I agree with this only to a point.

Although a vast majority of the state is culturally Southern, the "Metro Valley" between Huntington and Charleston is very much culturally Midwestern or Northern.

Still, I agree that both West Virginia and Virginia belong grouped with the Southern States. Either that or there should be a separate category for all of the Mid-Atlantic States (Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Maryland, Delaware, West Virginia, Virginia, and D.C.).

Does that make sense to anyone else?

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Culturally, Arkansas may be Southern, but geographically, it can be a borderline-Southern state, whereas other states, such as the Carolinas, Georgia, Tennessee, Alabama, etc. are clearly Southern. Little Rock may be located further south than Greenville, but so is Phoenix--that hardly means that Arizona is Southern, culturally OR geographically. :)

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How can you say that Tennessee is further south geographically than Arkansas? Look at a map, and you'll see that most of Arkansas is further south than southernmost Tennessee. Arkansas is also further south than North Carolina, and South Carolina doesn't extend much further south than Arkansas, so you're wrong again.

map-us-southeast.gif

Secondly, I never said that the further south a place is geographically, the more Southern it is culturally. A pre-schooler knows that Virginia is more Southern than Arizona.

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arkansalawyer you made a good point about how geography can be irrelevant towards affecting a culture. just look at miami, its about as south as you can go, but not a part of the "southern culture".

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How can you say that Tennessee is further south geographically than Arkansas? Look at a map, and you'll see that most of Arkansas is further south than southernmost Tennessee. Arkansas is also further south than North Carolina, and South Carolina doesn't extend much further south than Arkansas, so you're wrong again.

What do you mean that I'm wrong "again"? Where was I wrong the first time?

Secondly, please do not misquote me. I never said that "Tennessee is further south geographically than Arkansas"; I know better. I said that geographically, Arkansas can be somewhat of a borderline-Southern state; some may be more inclined to categorize it as a Midwestern state. However, that usually isn't the case with other states such as Tennessee, as it is more clearly recognized as Southern. Geesh dude, don't have a cow; it really isn't that big of a deal. :P

Secondly, I never said that the further south a place is geographically, the more Southern it is culturally. A pre-schooler knows that Virginia is more Southern than Arizona.

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Then what was your point in pointing out that Little Rock is located further south than Greenville? As you have pointed out, this in itself does not mean that Arkansas is a Southern state or that South Carolina is a non-Southern state.

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What do you mean that I'm wrong "again"? Where was I wrong the first time?

Secondly, please do not misquote me. I never said that "Tennessee is further south geographically than Arkansas"; I know better. I said that geographically, Arkansas can be somewhat of a borderline-Southern state; some may be more inclined to categorize it as a Midwestern state. However, that usually isn't the case with other states such as Tennessee, as it is more clearly recognized as Southern. Geesh dude, don't have a cow; it really isn't that big of a deal.

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The organization of this forum is one of the more complicated discussions the staff has had here on UP and we have discussed many options for grouping together regions and have gone through several revisions in the almost 2 years we have been in operation. 

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Indeed :wacko:

I'm sorry if it came across as insulting, but you did say:  I don't see how the meaning is different from saying that "Tennessee is further south geographically than Arkansas." I meant you were incorrect again, by saying the Carolinas are geographically more "clearly southern." Again, I'm sorry that I didn't put it in a very tactful manner.

My point of Little Rock being geographically further south than Greenville was not a cultural argument. The Midwest is a northern region centered around the Great Lakes, so I was illustrating how ridiculous it is to group us in that region in any way. It's a moot point because culturally, Arkansas is about as Southern as a place gets.

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I think you are taking the term "Southern" too literally. A Southern state is as much geographic as it is cultural. And much of that is centered around what is today the "southeast." Don't forget that when the terms 'North and the South' were coined, there was no such thing as Arkansas. Tennessee was considered the 'west.' It was all based on the location along the Atlantic. Should we call San Diego a Southern city just becuase it is south of Little Rock? Clearly the answer is no. Nobody is arguing that Arkansas is not a Southern state, but it is indeed on the border of the area of states that most would consider "Southern."

Once again I will put up the infamous orange map:)

thesouth.jpg

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Arkansas is clearly Southern. It was one of the 11 states of the Confederacy, people there speak with Southern accents (ever heard Bill Clinton??), people there have other Southern traits (i.e. food, mannerisms, politeness). To argue otherwise is just silly. I never understood anyway why any one Southerner would want to be so exclusive as to claim their area was the "true South". If a state or region wants to claim Southern status (unless it is clearly not, like New York or California), we should accept this. End of discussion.

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^Thanks Spartan for articulating my sentiments on the matter as well.

Arkansawyer, no harm , no foul. ;)

At any rate, I consider WV to be a Southern state.

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