Green Buildings in Charlotte

[dubone]

Imaginon is certified by the Green Building Council. I think it is the only one in Charlotte.

[cinco]

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/bus...th/14156178.htm

interesting... i wish there were some more renderings available, but this seems like a project with scruples. hopefully they will see a good return on being good stewards.

[dubone]

Do any of you guys know what the economics are of putting a green roof on an existing building with a flat roof with stones on it? I've read that grassy or green roofs save on heating/cooling costs because they insulate the building and absorb the sun's rays. It also helps to eliminate the urban warming effect. (Not to mention adding some photosynthesis to an otherwise dead area of land).

Every time I look at an image of downtown Charlotte, I'm struck by how bad it is that we have 3 city blocks taken up by a flat roofed Convention Center. Not only would it be great if they made it a roof top park like Chicago did, but at minimum, they should add that kind of grass that McDonough recommends for roofs (they added it to the roof of Ford's River Rouge site).

They should do the same with the flat roofed section in the center of the NHOF. Then it would look a lot like an actual speedway from the towers, with a grassy centerfield.

I think if it isn't too expensive, it should definitely be considered. Not only would it improve the appearance from all the skyscrapers, but would be a great symbolic gesture that we are trying to improve our air quality and environmental responsibility.

[AuLukey]

Every time I look at an image of downtown Charlotte, I'm struck by how bad it is that we have 3 city blocks taken up by a flat roofed Convention Center. Not only would it be great if they made it a roof top park like Chicago did, but at minimum, they should add that kind of grass that McDonough recommends for roofs (they added it to the roof of Ford's River Rouge site).

They should do the same with the flat roofed section in the center of the NHOF. Then it would look a lot like an actual speedway from the towers, with a grassy centerfield.

I think if it isn't too expensive, it should definitely be considered. Not only would it improve the appearance from all the skyscrapers, but would be a great symbolic gesture that we are trying to improve our air quality and environmental responsibility.

I think that is a really good idea. They should build a public access park on top of the convention center. It may even generate more interest in the convention center's activities as people visiting the park would notice the event taking place which most people don't normally pay much attention to.

Is the NHOF going to have a flat roof in the center? I've never taken notice of the top.

[monsoon]

It is a good idea, but too expensive to retrofit onto an existing building as there is no way the roof could take the weight.

[dubone]

I agree about the weight of a park with people, but what about simply putting grass on the roof?

Here are some photos of the living roof on the River Rouge project:

http://www.mcdonoughpartners.com/projects/...projID=ford-dtp

Definitely read some of the articles linked from there. Green roofs, even if no people go up there, solve many environmental issues. They stop the extreme heat cycles that cause a lot of expense to heat/cool the inside of the building. They draw birds and bees. They help reduce the urban heat zones/island effect. They look better from above. They photosynthesize CO2 to O2, and filter other pollutants from the air. They reduce run off of rain water. They increase public awareness of all of the above.

I think even just a trellis with kudzu (although a less creepy vine would be better) on the roof would be cheap, and do many of the things that a grass roof does.

[monsoon]

Even grass would be too much as there is a lot of water in something like that, and water is incredibly heavy.

[dubone]

What about a vine, though?

It'd still be an interesting study to determine whether a low weight living roof could be added to the convention center. I really want there to be an ordinance in Charlotte requiring all big box stores and malls, and landscraper office buildings to have either a living roof or parking on the roof.

Even if some of the roof structure needs to be shored up, I doubt it would be a burdensome amount. I'm thinking just a couple hundred thousand dollars. Meanwhile, it'd get a lot of press and increase awareness of it.

[atlrvr]

Sounds like someone should contact his planning officials and city council rep....well, maybe not Smudgie.

[fulcrumsf]

I wonder what it would take to petition for an ordinance that would require some sort of Green Features to be implemented in all proposed city owned buildings. Case in short, it may cost more to build the buildings initially but it will save the city money in energy and water cost in the long run. As energy prices go up it makes a lot of sense to build sustainable green buildings. And like Dubone says we would set an example, by becoming a model city.

Other cities already a step ahead:

Guangdong, China :: Zero Energy Tower

London, England :: Mini Eco-City

Anybody know the process in organizing a petition, what all is involved (red tape)? It would be nice at least to offer some type of tax incentive to build green for new developments. Also if we could some how get green vendors involved, or even some sort of Green Organization that not only promotes green building but also educates builders the long term benefits of building green. Some type of green master plan would be great for the city. This would also increase our chances of getting federal grants.

[monsoon]

Looks as if there are 2 Leed certified buildings in Charlotte.

• ImaginOn: The Joe and Joan Martin Center - owned by the CLT public library - Silver

• The John James Audubon Lodge & Camp - owned by Crescent Resources - Level 2

I've never heard of the The John James Audubon Lodge & Camp. Does anyone have any details on this project? As asked above, does anyone have any ideas on what it might take to get the developers to develop projects in Charlotte with a goal of being more "green"? It would seem the high profile developers in this city, Pappas, Furman, etc. are completely ignoring this aspect of development.

[dubone]

While Pappas and Furman are definitely prominent developers, the urban townhouses, midrise and even highrise towers they build are much more green than the hundreds of thousands of other units that get built in this region.

The shared systems, the lower land use per capita, the shared wall space are vastly more efficient than the single family homes.

That said, I really wish they'd do even more. I don't know why Furman hasn't done a microturbine rather than a spire on Courtside and Trademark. I wish the massive blank walls on both Furman towers could have have photovoltaic panels.

I also think it would be fairly easy to put in a column/stripe of solar water heater panels on the southern side of the towers. They could be financed/depreciated/amortized over 30 years by the homeowners association. I mean, there are major tax credits, and solar water heaters are considered to pay for themselves after just a few years. The costs are rolled into the homeowners dues, but saves the new homeowners for water heating. Also, they could put radiant heaters into the building with the hot water, and heat the units in the winter.

I mean, these buildings are wall to wall glass. They could even use the new solar panels that are transparent (or translucent).

When the financing can be done through the homeowners association, these things also seem like a no-brainer.

But I'm sure they aren't in high demand, and make a complicated building even more complicated.

One very simple thing they could do is commit to using compact fluorescent bulbs in all the units.

What about a hydroelectric turbine on the grey water coming down the pipes from the upper floors?

There are so many possibilities for something to do. It just would seem they would try to do some things beyond bamboo flooring.

[Charlotte_native]

I've seen preliminary plans for two LEED Certified buildings in the works, one in center city and one in NoDa. It looks like at least one will come to fruition. It will be very interesting to see market reaction when/if they are done and marketed. From what I've seen, though, the cost impact to the developer actually isn't that great and won't really affect the buyers-end / pricing.

[voyager12]

It would be great to see more LEED building in Charlotte. The benefits are manifold for the developers,buyers, and the environment overall. Does the city offer tax breaks or some kind of incentive for green development?

[dubone]

I'd love to see the LEED certification, as that means they have put a lot of effort into being green. However, I'd far rather that all developers attempt to add at least some green or sustainable features even without going for the expensive LEED certification.

[atlrvr]

LEED certification has become a lot cheaper and more equal. The developer is now charged ~ $0.35/sq. ft., so it doesn't penalize developers of small buildings as much as the old process, which used to charge similar fees for a one-story building and a skyscraper.

I don't believe the city offers any tax incentives for green buildings, though they should. Some states, Maryland being one of the first, have tax-credit programs similar to historic tax-credits, if they building meets certain conditions (not necessarily LEED).

Beyond that, I wouldn't mind our building code to REQUIRE some green practices.

[dubone]

I'd like to see more requirements for titanium dioxide concrete, which when combined with UV from the sun breaks down air pollution like Nitrous Oxide. Nitrous Oxide is a major issue in Charlotte, as it combines with the VOCs in the air (from trees, paint, and many other things) to create ground level ozone pollution and smog. Ozone is a major cause for athsma problems. Smog is a major cause for ugliness and reduction in sunlight and blue skies.

But it also has a very practical use that benefits the installers, in that it is self-cleaning. It won't change color.

Check out this article that says if all streets, sidewalks, and building exteriors in a city used photocatalytic paving like titanium dioxide the air quality could conceivably improve 80%. You can also read about the other benefits.

http://www.concretedecor.net/All_Access/50...04_New_Tech.cfm

I don't know about cost difference, but considering it is already used in Japan and Europe, it must be generally economical.

[stadtguy]

This is a great thread topic. I would gladly pay extra to have a green house, with or without official "LEED" recognition. Even poor communities like Patterson, NJ (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5324470) are getting into the green game. The Charlotte Observer has highlighted a couple of green houses in the last few Saturday "Homes" sections of the paper. Of course, both highlighted homes were about 5,500 square feet which is a mockery of sustainability, but you've got to start somewhere.

I'm not a developer, but a market for a well-designed, high quality product must exist in a city as large as Charlotte. I'm imagining an eco-community of 16-20 homes about 1400 square feet utilizing passive solar, water recycling, natural vegetation, non-toxic flooring/materials, top-of-the-line energy efficient appliances and HVAC, glazed windows, "communal" parking and perhaps, stone construction or concrete/steel construction. Granted the costs would be higher, but $300k for a solidly built, environmentally conscious home with minimal utility bills (not to mention the environmental cache) would appeal to a certain demographic niche NOT being served by Pulte, Crosland, Shea, etc.

I suppose I'm talking about tapping into the "long end of the tail." An article in Wired (several months old) talked about how mass merchandising of music, for instance, has led to homogenization of the industry that pushes mass-marketed schlock. For instance, Walmart will only sell CDs that are projected to sell X number of copies--it's volume, volume, volume. Yet, a strong market for less marketed acts exists that current vendors are not responding to because businesses (or builders) are focusing on the largest market segment. This market is downloading songs and CDs online and much of it goes unreported in the mass media. The fact that we don't know that much about these sales does not mean they are not plentiful or a lucrative niche. Does this make sense?

[voyager12]

In order for there to be a strong LEED presence in a city there needs to be solid support for green practices overall. Typically, places that are progressive politically lead the way. On the state level, Asheville and Chapel Hill's downtown areas are blooming with green projects. Its a harder sell in more conservative cities. I will grudgingly have to say that McCrory is relatively enlightened regarding cleaner environmental practices, but the stronger communitywide support is not there yet.

[monsoon]

I think there are a lot of missed opportunites to take advantage of the all the sun we have here to generate at least hot water, and even some electricity through the use of solar collectors on the roofs of buildings.

Habitat for Humanity just built NC's first zero enery home in Hickory. It's on Catawba Ave if you want to go and see it.

[voyager12]

Aside from being built alongside the greenway which is a great thing, will the Met Midtown have green features?

[dubone]

They are not advertising it, so I doubt they'll do any more than the standard stuff, like maybe some energy star appliances and thermal windows.

[atlrvr]

This quote was from THe Friends of Fourth Ward board meeting.

It was announced that Discovery Place is planning on making an urban park on the Discovery Place roof. Discovery Place might want to be included in the plant theme meeting.

Sounds interesting, I wonder how it will be accessed.

[A2]

This quote was from THe Friends of Fourth Ward board meeting.

Sounds interesting, I wonder how it will be accessed.

well that will be a very interesting feat of engineering. I am wondering about the same thing atlrvr, where's the access going to be? I still like the idea though. That is, if they can pull it off.

A2

[uptownliving]

The Discovery Place Green Roof project is replacing 8,810 square feet of roof of which approximately 5,000 square feet is to be green roofing. This will be the first green roof installed as a roof replacement on an existing City of Charlotte building. The planting area will be divided by walkway pavers into six unique areas, which will allow experimentation with different planting mediums and plant species. This approach to roof replacement moves toward a sustainable environment by reducing urban heat islands and minimizing storm water run off and provides an environmentally pleasing design. Construction completion is scheduled for 4Q2006. This project is costing $250K. I don't know of any plans to have this open to the public...but I suspect that if you go up in the IJL Parking Deck you would be able to take a pic of them putting this together.