Atlanta VS Charlotte

[cosmoboy]

In terms of the number of Fortune 500s headquartered in the place, Atlanta is still number 3 after New York City and Houston according to the April 2005 list. See the below link for the list of companies:

http://www.lead411.com/fortune500a.taf?&_s...5FE7E0742E304BA

Atlanta's Fortune 500s are:

Home Depot

UPS

Bell South

Coca Cola

Georgia-Pacific

Coca Cola Enterprises

Delta

Southern Company

Genuine Parts Company

Newell Rubbermaid (Alpharetta address)

SunTrust Bank

Mirant Corporation

Cox Communications

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What about Cingular wireless?

[cosmoboy]

As an Atlantan, I will give you my impression of Charlotte based on my visits there and the buzz I hear about the city.

I think Charlotte is very much a "little" Atlanta for the following reasons:

1. Both cities seem to have a somewhat inflated boosterist mentality when compared with other southern cities. Many of the other cities would suggest that both Atlanta and Charlotte have a rather inflated opinion of themselves (inspired by jealousy probably :-) I am not saying boosterism is bad. Without dreaming big and having perhaps an inflated opinion on itself, Atlanta would probably never have hosted an Olympics or done a lot of other rather impressive things.

2. Both cities are very much corporate centers. Atlanta is #3 in the nation for Fortune 500 headquarters, and I think Charlotte is around #7 or so if I remember correctly. Atlanta is home to household names like Coca Cola, Home Depot, and UPS. And Charlotte is home to household names like Wachovia, Bank of America, and Duke Energy. Being corporate centers, both cities have rather impressive skylines with big office towers.

3. Both cities have a similar feel. Some call it the "Emerald City" effect--they both have downtowns (and edge cities in the case of Atlanta) with towering highrises with pinnacles and such surrounded by very green tree-filled neighborhoods and all connected by busy freeways. Geographically, they are similar with their piedmont settings not so far away from the hills. Their roads wind and twist and turn around hills, etc.

4. Both cities are transportation hubs. Atlanta obviously has the world's busiest airport. Charlotte is a major distribution hub.

5. Both cities have put a lot of stock into major sports teams and facilities.

6. Both cities are having an intown housing boom (included condos and high rises).

In short, I think Charlotte has a great deal in common with Atlanta. Charlotte is probably developmentally where Atlanta was in say the 1960s.

Atlanta is obviously substantially bigger still. Charlotte still lacks the kind of edge cities that Atlanta has, but I think it has the beginnings of these areas in South Park and other areas. Charlotte is building a transit system (light rail vs. heavy rail in Atlanta).

In terms of areas where Charlotte differs, I think a huge area is the issue of political jurisdictions. Atlanta's city proper is extremely confined and has not annexed anything since 1952 (thanks to restrictive state annexation laws, race issues, etc.). Charlotte has annexed much of the immediate urban area. Metro Atlanta also has to deal with more counties in part because it is bigger, but also in part because of the relatively small boundaries of Georgia counties. In short, Charlotte has a better chance to have better unified planning and regional cooporation than Atlanta.

I think Charlotte probably does a better job with its arts and cultural institutions given the difference in size. One of my ongoing frustrations with Atlanta is that many of the cultural institutions of the city are not what they should be for a city its size.

One area where I do fault Charlotte and actually think Atlanta may be slightly (emphasis on the word slightly) better off is in the historic preservation front. Charlotte tore down too much of its historic fabric downtown.

One area I see some difference is that Charlotte does not have the level of economic diversity of Atlanta. Two examples:

Charlotte does not have quite the academic presence that Atlanta does. Davidson College has an excellent reputation but is rather small. UNC-Charlotte is relatively new and is not one of NC's flagships like NC State or UNC-Chapel Hill. Atlanta does have Georgia Tech (one of the nation's best technically inclined state universities) and Emory University. That is one area where the Triangle has an edge over Charlotte.

Atlanta also has a much larger government presence. It is a state capital unlike Charlotte. And it has one of the largest concentrations of federal workers outside of the Washington DC region. This includes the headquarters of the Centers for Disease Control.

Overall though, I think Atlanta and Charlotte are very similar. Atlanta is just further along so to speak.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Could not have said it better myself!

[UrbanSoutherner]

What about Cingular wireless?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think Cingular is owned by SBC Communications in San Antonio TX (#33 on the Fortune 500 list), so it may not be individually listed. But I am not sure about this.

Also Cosmoboy, your address says Winston-Salem. I noticed the Triad had a number of Fortune 500s split between Winston-Salem and Greensboro. I was always impressed by the corporate presence in Winston-Salem. It has much more than you would expect from a city its size.

[cosmoboy]

I think Cingular is owned by SBC Communications in San Antonio TX (#33 on the Fortune 500 list), so it may not be individually listed. But I am not sure about this.

Also Cosmoboy, your address says Winston-Salem. I noticed the Triad had a number of Fortune 500s split between Winston-Salem and Greensboro. I was always impressed by the corporate presence in Winston-Salem. It has much more than you would expect from a city its size.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yeah your right, but also cingular is #144 on the 2004 fortune 500 list but I don't know about 2005.

here our all of our fortune 500 companies

1.BB&T

2.Reynolds American (RJR)

3.Sara Lee

4.(future company spinoff from Sara Lee)

And we used to have Wachovia, until Charlotte stole it from us! oh well!

[GaTechGuy]

I think Cingular is owned by SBC Communications in San Antonio TX

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Cingular is a joint venture of both SBC and Bell South. SBC owns 60% and Bellsouth owns the other 40%.

[teshadoh]

A lot of great comments - but just wanted to disagree with Cosmoboy though:

What I really love about Charlotte, is that right as you exit the Tryon St. area you go into these nice family house areas with your own shopping areas and grocery stores and your still in "the square-mile" even better DT. You have the best of both worlds in DT Charlotte, homey southern living and an urban dwellers paradise. In ATL you have to go out to Druid Hills, Virginia Highlands, or Decatur.

Considering I live in a neighborhood bordering Downtown, being Grant Park as well as Cabbagetown. But there is a larger zone of non-single family oriented housing surrounging Downtown, such as Midtown & Old Fourth Ward, so I think I understand your point.

But what I love about living in the southside neighborhoods is how much it reminds me of living in more rural southern towns, mostly mill towns when in Cabbagetown.

[Martinman]

What I think is a reasonable assumption, is that Charlotte will never have the 16 lane freeways that Atlanta has. Charlotte's highest # will probably be 5 or 6 in each direction. Also Charlotte will never have the cosmopolitan feel that Atlanta has. Charlotte will never have the thriving suburbs that ATL has. But, Atlanta's suburbs will never have that downhome milltown southern feel that Charlotte's has. 

When I was in Buckhead yesterday, I felt like I was in LA or better yet Hollywood. In Charlotte the closest thing to Buckhead would be Southpark, and when i'm there I feel like I'm still in Charlotte. And when I ventured out to the northern part of the perimeter, I felt like I was in a whole different city but I was still in Atlanta, which amazes me alot! But, when I'm in DT Charlotte I feel like i'm in NYC or Chicago. Atlanta's DT still feels like Atlanta.

And like i've said here before, Atlanta's skyline will always continue to grow and Charlotte's will only continue to get denser inside that square mile bounded by 77 and 277. A reason Charlotte's will never sprawl out would be right as you exit the "square-mile" you start to see crime and poor living conditions. But, there has been some efforts to build some substantial urban housing.

That's My Story and I'm Sticking to it!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good post but Im wondering if you've ever been to NYC or Chicago

[Skyybutter]

When I was in Buckhead yesterday, I felt like I was in LA or better yet Hollywood. In Charlotte the closest thing to Buckhead would be Southpark, and when i'm there I feel like I'm still in Charlotte. And when I ventured out to the northern part of the perimeter, I felt like I was in a whole different city but I was still in Atlanta, which amazes me alot! But, when I'm in DT Charlotte I feel like i'm in NYC or Chicago. Atlanta's DT still feels like Atlanta.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In what way does uptown Charlotte feel like NYC or Chicago. Having visited both and I lived in Philadelphia for 5 years, other then simply having some tall buildings in uptown I see no similiarities. Uptown, though getting busier, still has little foot traffic. And its way to clean. Not that clean is bad. But its almost too clean. lol...

I think Charlotte will one day be as cosmopolitan as Atlanta, but honestly I think Charlotte has more transplants from say DC NY and the whole Northeast then Atlanta. They bring a differrent style all together.

[cosmoboy]

In what way does uptown Charlotte feel like NYC or Chicago. Having visited both and I lived in Philadelphia for 5 years, other then simply having some tall buildings in uptown I see no similiarities. Uptown, though getting busier, still has little foot traffic. And its way to clean. Not that clean is bad. But its almost too clean. lol...

[krazeeboi]

In what way does uptown Charlotte feel like NYC or Chicago. Having visited both and I lived in Philadelphia for 5 years, other then simply having some tall buildings in uptown I see no similiarities.

I think it's a bit of a stretch myself. But I think that once the residential towers go up in Uptown, it will begin to stretch the activity (particularly at night) across the CBD instead of having it centralized along Tryon and College (and Church and Trade to an extent). This will really add to the "cosmopolitan" flair of the city and make it come across as more big-cityish.

Uptown, though getting busier, still has little foot traffic. And its way to clean. Not that clean is bad. But its almost too clean. lol...

You're right. Sometimes I need to see a little grit to remind me that I'm actually in a city. LOL

[charlotte_bon_vivant]

You're right. Sometimes I need to see a little grit to remind me that I'm actually in a city. LOL

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ha! Me too! The first time I went Uptown after moving here I actually became worried because it was too clean. I felt like they were hiding something. Over time, Uptown became more like "Uptown -- The Theme Park" than part of a city. It's not bad, but it's been "Disneyfied" in a weird way. It's not natural. It feels almost contrived. Weird, I know.

Charlotte does need more eccentric neighborhoods. There are some areas that are very cool, like Central Ave. near Plaza Midwood is great. I do wish there was a Va-Hi, Poncey Highlands, Inman Park, etc. here. The lack of diverse intown neighbordhoods is one of Charlotte's drawbacks. That's another difference between Atlanta and Charlotte. Atlanta has a longer history of intown living than Charlotte does. Not that there was never anything in downtown Charlotte, but you can tell Charlotte was traditionally spread out a lot more than Atlanta in the past.

Cosmoboy, I have two things for you. Since you mentioned earlier Atlanta's nightlife, I wanted to link to an article from Atlanta Creative Loafing detailing some of the history of Atlanta's nightlife. Atlanta has had an active nightlife for a very long time now. Some very cool clubs have operated there in the past. The article shows you a few of those.

The second link I have for you is from Bloglanta. One of the bloggers posted a gallery of photos of several Atlanta neighborhoods. I just thought you'd like to see it.

Thanks to everyone for this wonderful discussion. I'm very impressed by how respectful it has been. I don't think we'd have the same caliber of discussion on some other sites where any versus thread turns into a p!ssing contest.

[JunktionFET]

girly, thanks for clarifying some of your points. I think I have a better sense for the essence of what you were saying now that you have explained it a little clearer--you were referring to the "image" of the southeast.

Though I wouldn't personally hold Atlanta solely responsible for the mild improvement in respect that the southeast has garnered over the last couple of decades, I would definitely count it with the ensemble efforts of the south's other largest cities.

You'd wager wrong, but I'd love to hear your reasoning for this.

In-state migration of population and from rural areas/small towns to a large city far away.

By the way, what's up with the cocky disrespectful "You'd wager wrong"? When I expressed disagreement with one of your statements, I was at least tactful. Why do you choose to be so confrontational with me?

The way you picked apart every single paragraph would seem to indicate you selfishly assumed I must be addressing you at every word. Jeeesh

Who said they weren't different?

No one that I recall. I was prefacing my conclusion. Is that okay with you?

BTW- It is a four hour drive from Atlanta to Valdosta, GA. Yet you just stated: "In fact, I'd wager that Atlanta has actually pulled some life and prosperity away from southern Georgia more than once through contemporary history." Either distance has an effect or it doesn't.

Ah yes, the booming metroplex of Valdosta. Tenth largest city in the country, isn't it?

You've missed most of my points and you've attempted to turn them into a negative pile of rubbish. Thanks. You r0ck!!1!1!11!

[charlotte_bon_vivant]

Norff Carolina, I'll avoid directly quoting you from now on. I didn't realize it was such a sensitive subject. My apologies. FTR, it wasn't clear if your entire post was a response directly to me or not. You made no indication of that.

Let's see... Yes, I meant "image" since "image" is actually very important. Most of what we post on this site is about "image". We hardly ever have in-depth discussions about economic programs. What we discuss is largely about how each of our respective cities looks. There is nothing wrong with that and it shouldn't be dismissed as unimportant.

Mild improvement? The south has risen leaps and bounds over our old image.

The majority of metro Atlanta residents are not native to GA. In GA, the migration trend is for natives to live outside the metro area. Most choose to live in the area where they went to college. Why? I don't know. It's just something we do in GA.

I wasn't cocky or disrespectful. You said, "I'd wager..." I said, "You'd wager wrong." That's it. You inferred more from that statement than was intended.

No, NC. That is not okay. Do it again and I'll be forced to get the cattle prod.

Surprisingly, Valdosta IS booming. Can you believe it? I kid you not.

You're welcome. And yes. Yes, I do rock.

P.S. I wasn't being snarky in my last post to you. I was actually being pretty matter-of-fact. (At last attempting to be.) I know it's hard to discern online, but I usually use smilies to get that point across, that I'm not trying to attack. The above post is intentionally snarky to show the difference between me being cocky and me simply being straight forward.

[socaguy]

Girly, thanks for the link on Atlantas nightlife. I had always heard of the Limelight in Atlanta but didnt know it was from the same people who did Limelight and Tunnel in New York. I had always thought the stories about the sharks swimming under your feet and the caged tigers (not in the story but ive heard that) were true.

Velvet in Atlanta was also one of the top clubs in the USA during its stint in the early 90s. And of course who hasnt been to the notorious and now defunct (will be 2, 40 floor condos soon) nightclub, Backstreet. That place was crazy, Ive seen lines stretching all the way down to the Armory at 7am in the morning!

Plus the Gold Club (infamous) and Club 112.

Now Atlanta has Compound which was voted Best New Club in the USA by the World Club Awards.

[Skyybutter]

Girly, thanks for the link on Atlantas nightlife.  I had always heard of the Limelight in Atlanta but didnt know it was from the same people who did Limelight and Tunnel in New York.  I had always thought the stories about the sharks swimming under your feet and the caged tigers (not in the story but ive heard that) were true.

Velvet in Atlanta was also one of the top clubs in the USA during its stint in the early 90s.  And of course who hasnt been to the notorious and now defunct (will be 2, 40 floor condos soon) nightclub, Backstreet.  That place was crazy, Ive seen lines stretching all the way down to the Armory at 7am in the morning!

Plus the Gold Club (infamous) and Club 112. 

Now Atlanta has Compound which was voted Best New Club in the USA by the World Club Awards.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The night Backstreet closed its doors is the night the lights went out in Georgia. What a shame. I have some great memories of that place.

[monsoon]

The night Backstreet closed its doors is the night the lights went out in Georgia. What a shame. I have some great memories of that place.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Haha I liked the one in Ft. Lauderdale when I lived in Boca Raton.

[cosmoboy]

Hey girly thanks for the article now you give me something too do on a boring night. Buckhead here I come! B)

[Miesian Corners]

I think Atlanta has a livelier night life than Charlotte does. It's really more fun to be down here in ATL because your in the middle of it all. What I hate about Charlotte is that its downtown has limited boundaries. I'm starting to see that go away but for the most part it's still the same. In ATL the urban core stretches from Turner Field to the northern edge of Buckhead. Charlotte's is from I-277 to I-277.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Seeing as that Atlanta has a metro populaton of 4.7 million and Charlotte has only 1.7 million, I'd expect it to have a far more developed nightlife. And to have better shopping, entertainment, and a more dense urban core. It's a far bigger city.

I hate these comarison threads. By the way, my daddy can beat up your daddy.

[charlotte_bon_vivant]

I'd expect it to have a far more developed nightlife. And to have better shopping, entertainment, and a more dense urban core.  It's a far bigger city. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep. And we have better food, we wipe our butts better, we pee on the streets better, vomit in parking lots better. Atlanta rules!

[Spartan]

This is starting to get asinine. Keep it on topic.

[Miesian Corners]

Yep. And we have better food, we wipe our butts better, we pee on the streets better, vomit in parking lots better. Atlanta rules! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll go along with everything you said, except the peeing on the streets part. I'm certain that Charlotte does a far better job of that. We have hard-core NASCAR fans.

[appatone]

For what it's worth I'm with UrbanSoutherner. I have to say, on behalf of all southern cities outside of ATL, that looking at Atlanta and learning from it are different then wanting to be like it. Atlanta, like any city, has both good and bad, many smaller southern cities study it for both emulation at times and also avoidance of specific pros and cons. It would be stupid for other southern cities, especially Charlotte to ignore the lessons Atlanta can teach, however I don't think Charlotte wants to be any city other than Charlotte. Atlantans do at times let that go to their heads, but as previously said both cities are guilty of shameless boosterism which has garnered much for both. Atlanta does also offer a measuring stick which other southern cities can place their backs to in order to see how big their getting at times (and I'm sure most cities enjoy doing that as they see themselves growing) (And I know Atlanta LOVES IT when other cities do it, it

[Skyybutter]

If you look at the Coastal South (excluding FL) I think you can almost compare what the Charlotte-Atlanta relationship will be to the California San Fran-LA relationship.  Both dominant, well-respected cities, one certainly larger than the other (which doesn't necessarily detract from the smaller), both independent but aware of the other, all in all no big deal.  Atlanta will probably also hold a dominant position in the South as the largest city like LA does in California, yet Charlotte will be a well recognized national major city in its own right.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I really agree with this statement. And I didnt know there was a Backstreet in Florida ? Same owners?

[cosmoboy]

  By the way, my daddy can beat up your daddy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Whose daddy, I know you ain't talking about my daddy whitebread! Just kidding, trying to add a little life into this thread.

[cosmoboy]

Charlotte loves getting bigger, but I think it loves growing into a bigger version of itself.