The Grand River?! You mean GR has a River?

[GR8scott]

Only brought those cities up because we don’t have any natural barriers, no waterfalls and much of inland river traffic is barges that don’t need to be deep or wide. Just a thought but there’s a few miles of industrial land that backs up the grand in GR and Wyoming and minimal roadblocks to utililize comparatively 

[GRDadof3]

8 hours ago, GR8scott said:

Only brought those cities up because we don’t have any natural barriers, no waterfalls and much of inland river traffic is barges that don’t need to be deep or wide. Just a thought but there’s a few miles of industrial land that backs up the grand in GR and Wyoming and minimal roadblocks to utililize comparatively 

That would be a bit challenging with how the Grand River naturally floods every Spring. You'd have to build some massive breakwalls and flood barriers that would then make flooding downstream ever worse than it is now. 

Being recreational boaters ourselves, I can tell you that Hibma is way overestimating how many people would use this dredged channel. It's way too long. If you go to any boating epicenter in Michigan in the Summer, you'll see that 90% of the boats have big groups of adults and kids/teenagers on them. My kids would be bored out of their gourds boating this far up the Grand River. They'd do it once and never want to again.   You certainly wouldn't be able to water ski or wakeboard in a 50' wide channel, not with other traffic, or stop and swim in hot weather. 

[RegalTDP]

18 hours ago, Raildude's dad said:

We have the harbor already. It's called Muskegon Lake. The former Cobb plant is being developed into a deep water port / dock.

That's great - so if GR continues to grow, and shipping directly into West MI grows as a result, Muskegon will grow too.  Eventually we'll no longer have to count them as a separate MSA 

[joeDowntown]

An article in mlive about the dredging process:

https://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/2019/04/push-for-powerboat-link-from-grand-rapids-to-lakeshore-draws-scrutiny.html

[wingbert]

Whoops

Edited April 9, 2019 by wingbert

[GRDadof3]

9 minutes ago, wingbert said:

Do you mean the irony of no longer viewing the river as a big sewer and instead considering the myriad recreational and economic possibilities it presents throughout its various courses?

All the factory owners and sawmills back in the early 1900's also saw $$ in the river and dammed it up, dredged it, channelled it, exploited it, and polluted it. I think that's what RDD was getting at. 

[Raildude's dad]

My point is the rapids project is removing all the man made dams, flood walls etc and trying to return the river to what it was like before the white man arrived to settle here and industrialize.  The dredging project takes a river that's  pretty much the way it was before the white man arrived and dredges a 50 foot wide channel in it for 20+ miles.  If you look into the history of the river, before the highway systems, the river was channelized so shallow draft steamboats could get to guess what, "the rapids" at Fulton St . I can't find where I read it but they installed wood pilings to create the channel. Supposedly remnants can be seen at low water and the channel is long filled in naturally. I've never gotten further up stream myself than the the Bass River pits.

I'm with GRD3, no way am I boating to from Grand Haven to  Grand Rapids. My 23 foot SeaRay is racked in Grand Haven.  His comments about boaters is spot on.

[joeDowntown]

I heard that they may be postponing the river restoration another year as they figure out the sea lamprey situation.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiL1uTbhMThAhXD7oMKHR7uAEAQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.woodtv.com%2Fnews%2Fgrand-rapids%2Fgrand-river-restoration-project-could-be-delayed%2F1909661238&psig=AOvVaw3bg7WTvykJ6bPQOZR6a0xM&ust=1554934546870298

Stupid question, with the fish ladder, and the fact that a few fish actually make it over the dam, wouldn’t the lamprey already have hitchhiked it’s way up stream? Maybe I don’t understand how they spread, but I’m kind of shocked that the dam Hs stopped 100% of the spread of this invasive species. Just curious. 

Joe

[GRDadof3]

14 hours ago, joeDowntown said:

I heard that they may be postponing the rice restoration another year as they figure out the sea lamprey situation.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiL1uTbhMThAhXD7oMKHR7uAEAQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.woodtv.com%2Fnews%2Fgrand-rapids%2Fgrand-river-restoration-project-could-be-delayed%2F1909661238&psig=AOvVaw3bg7WTvykJ6bPQOZR6a0xM&ust=1554934546870298

Stupid question, with the fish ladder, and the fact that a few fish actually make it over the dam, wouldn’t the lamprey already have hitchhiked it’s way up stream? Maybe I don’t understand how they spread, but I’m kind of shocked that the dam Hs stopped 100% of the spread of this invasive species. Just curious. 

Joe

I read that, that's a bummer. I wonder too how that works. I saw a presentation about removing the dam about 6 or 7 years ago and it just mentioned that sea lamprey can't get over the dam or the fish ladder stairs (basically only salmon can). 

[Allison Slater]

According to some commenters on MLive (so take it with a whole quarry of salt) there are already sea lamprey upstream who have hitched a ride on salmon, and fishers have been pulling out salmon with sea lamprey attached.

If that's not the case, maybe the salmon aren't able to make the jump with the sea lamprey attached? Or maybe they just don't breed up there? idk

[egrguy]

Grand Rapids lawmakers ask Whitmer to stop proposed Grand River dredging project

Political opposition to the dredging. I hope the dredging part of this doesn't scrap the original idea just for restoring the rapids.

[joeDowntown]

These projects are so separate, other than being on the same waterway, I can’t imagine  the dredging project affecting rapids restoration. 

Joe

[ProtoSapien]

Maybe Hibma's goal is to eventually connect the lagoon at his castle to the Grand River and have a medieval marina component as well?  Haha!

[Raildude's dad]

Roger Lucas is the owner of the castle. He is married to a Land daughter but he's in the castle as sole owner according to what he said at a technical presentation on the project.

[cstonesparty]

https://mibiz.com/sections/real-estate-development/delays-extend-grand-rapids-whitewater-start-to-2021

[joeDowntown]

That stinks. I'm really excited about this project. I was legitimately wondering if the work would speed up due to some of the Trump administration's unwinding of EPA policies. You know, like they could relocate the snuffbox mussel with sticks of dynamite, small, tactical nukes to take out the dams, etc. ? And screw the upstream effects of the lamprey eel. 

Wonder how fundraising is going? Last I looked, they still hadn't opened public fundraising.

Joe

[waygo]

Quote

1 hour ago, joeDowntown said:

Wonder how fundraising is going? Last I looked, they still hadn't opened public fundraising.

 

Looks like it is coming along ... 

From the article:

Its private funding goal is $20 million; Chapman said there is still about $7.5 million to raise.

“This community is astoundingly supportive of these projects,” Heacock said. “Some of these major foundations have stepped up in a very, very big way. It’s made it go smoothly, and allows us to continue what we’re doing.”

[GRDadof3]

https://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/2019/11/grand-rapids-contributes-2-million-to-river-restoration.html

GRAND RAPIDS, MI -- Grand Rapids will contribute $2 million over the next five years to Grand Rapids Whitewater’s $45 million project that aims to restore the rapids to the Grand River.

The city commission approved an amendment to its agreement with Grand Rapids Whitewater on Tuesday, Nov. 12, to include the financial contribution and help layout responsibilities for each party as the project is carried out.

[GR8scott]

I’ve heard Des Moines Iowa has a similar project although with a $117 mil price tag. The more I’ve been there, the more similarities I see between the and GR, although they seem to do things a little “grand-er”, maybe it’s because it’s the Capitol and largest city in Iowa 

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/amp/629135002

 

[GRDadof3]

On 11/12/2019 at 8:24 PM, GR8scott said:

I’ve heard Des Moines Iowa has a similar project although with a $117 mil price tag. The more I’ve been there, the more similarities I see between the and GR, although they seem to do things a little “grand-er”, maybe it’s because it’s the Capitol and largest city in Iowa 

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/amp/629135002

 

Wow, it sounds eerily similar. 

[joeDowntown]

1 hour ago, GRDadof3 said:

Wow, it sounds eerily similar. 

So we're Des Moines little brother? That doesn't sound cool at all.

[MJLO]

Des Moines has an absolute monster economy for it's metro size(GDP ranked 50th, while it's metro is ranked in the 70s).  It also has the strongest growth rates in the Midwest.  I do think it being the top dog in it's state helps it do things on a bigger scale than what happens here.  

[Prankster]

1 hour ago, MJLO said:

Des Moines has an absolute monster economy for it's metro size(GDP ranked 50th, while it's metro is ranked in the 70s).  It also has the strongest growth rates in the Midwest.  I do think it being the top dog in it's state helps it do things on a bigger scale than what happens here.  

Being a national insurance hub and corporate hq for some of the larger insurance companies helps too. 

[RegalTDP]

10 hours ago, joeDowntown said:

So we're Des Moines little brother? That doesn't sound cool at all.

Whoa, whoa, I wouldn't characterize it that way.  I agree with the ^^^others that Des Moines benefits from its status as a capitol and largest city in Iowa, while GR has to compete with other cities taking up the oxygen in our state.

But it's also worth pointing out that Michigan and Iowa do not have equal tourism industries.  Michigan has the Great Lakes and a robust network of natural inland lakes and streams.  We already have a well-established outdoor recreation scene that draws vacationers from out of state.  GR White Water's project is limited to Downtown GR and would complement all of this.

Iowa as a state has far less inland water, and much of what they do have was formed by dams. They have a bigger project because they are trying to bring more outdoor recreation to the region as a whole. It costs more because it will take a lot more engineering to do it.  They are playing catch-up.  More power to them; I don't think it's anything for us to be insecure about.

Iowa Tourism (2017):

• Visitor spending: $8.5 Billion
• Travel-related jobs: 69,570
• State Revenue: $507.1 Million

Michigan Tourism (2017):

• Visitor spending: $24.7 Billion
• Travel-related jobs: 224,476
• State Revenue: $2.7 Billion

Does GRWW need to be a bigger project?  If so, let's talk about what it's missing.  We shouldn't necessarily be jealous that other regions are trying to do something bigger - Michigan is blessed with a lot already!

Edited November 15, 2019 by RegalTDP

[joeDowntown]

I was totally joking. The Des Moines article talked about having to do "everything they can" to give people a reason to move / stay there. I think Grand Rapids benefits from Michigan's natural resources. Snow (boo!) and all. 

My only annoyance with GRWW and the overall river restoration / riverfront activation is that I want it to happen NOW.  I don't think it needs to be "bigger". I think it's pretty ambitious as is. 

Joe